Searching for GOD...

[Stranger]

An intelligent creator or creators you have no warrant for eliminating one or another.

Intelligent, outside and independent of the universe which it has created. In what way is that naturalistic in our universe? You must be committing the mother and father of all redefinitions to suit.

It's not worth wasting time going over the same arguments again - if you want to look like a total idiot, don't let me stop you. While you're at it, why not offer a prayer to the team that you worship before they all die...?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

1.That the universe came into being on its own without divine help

However improbable it might seem that a universe could come into existence without help, it is not so improbable as a universe-creating something coming into existence by itself without help.  Your solution merely hides the problem by positting an even bigger one in its place.

2 - 8  See 1.

Demonstrate your first statement.....and your second in the face that this has not been observed in other words nothing has been observed to have created itself.

The popping out of nothing suffers from the counter argument that it could come from somewhere else.

A universe which was always here suffers from the change problem since change has to come from something. The universe though looks more like a thermodynamic machine than a perpetual motion device.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's not worth wasting time going over the same arguments again - if you want to look like a total idiot, don't let me stop you. While you're at it, why not offer a prayer to the team that you worship before they all die...?

Well that brings us onto Bostrom's popups through which the maker makes itself known.

Look a total idiot on religionethics? Don't forget that if one enters the asylum the inmates have a different definition of sanity.

[bluehillside Retd.]

And where have I said you can't disprove God therefore God exists? That's right nowhere.

You are criticising Alan for assuming and I quote ''that the cause and effect we observe in the universe also applies “outside” it,''

Thus opening the door, reasonably, to an uncreated creator..........Bad luck old son.

And again he fails to grasp that that "outside it" was referring to a "God" (supposedly) "outside" the universe but acting on it, ie creating it.

As I know that relentless idiocy and misrepresentation is all we'll ever get though I'll leave him to his private amusement.     

[Stranger]

Demonstrate your first statement.....and your second in the face that this has not been observed in other words nothing has been observed to have created itself.

I think you might want to read the post again - you seem to have missed the point.

[Walter]

Blue. Rtd and Stanger

I imagine when you're on your deathbed you wont be saying ' I wish I'd spent more time debating with Private Frazer'

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And again he fails to grasp that that "outside it" was referring to a "God" (supposedly) "outside" the universe but acting on it, ie creating it.

As I know that relentless idiocy and misrepresentation is all we'll ever get though I'll leave him to his private amusement.     

You proposing a possible outside of the universe is amusement enough from me. It's one of a few conjectures you put forward which then forbid you from successfully arguing that the classical God of theology and philosophy is unreasonable.

The god you retreat to when you realise what you've gone and done is invariably a caricature.

That goes for Stranger's ''Igor to your Dr Frankenstein'' as well Ha Ha 

[Walter]

You proposing a possible outside of the universe is amusement enough from me. It's one of a few conjectures you put forward which then forbid you from successfully arguing that the classical God of theology and philosophy is unreasonable.

The god you retreat to when you realise what you've gone and done is invariably a caricature.

That goes for Stranger's ''Igor to your Dr Frankenstein'' as well Ha Ha

MEDIC!!!!!

[Stranger]

Well that brings us onto Bostrom's popups...

I'd get those seen to.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Just after I read AB's post, my reader came and so it is lovely to come back to the computer and find several rational, interesting, sensible, logical posts to take away the gloom AB's posts can cause.

The gloom is not caused by AB's posts. It is caused by your reaction to them.

Now: If you dealt in truth, you would be able to challenge them, but you don't. You have a "wish list" of what you want to be true, but you can't defend it, so get increasingly irksome with anyone who disagrees with you. You have negative things to say about me, Private Fraser, Alan Burns, even Gabriella. You really need to take a good look in the mirror and sort yourself out!

[Gordon]

Now: If you dealt in truth, you would be able to challenge them, but you don't. You have a "wish list" of what you want to be true, but you can't defend it, so get increasingly irksome with anyone who disagrees with you.

Oh the irony (which will no be doubt lost on you).

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Oh the irony (which will no be doubt lost on you).

Oh the irony (which will no doubt be lost on you).

[Stranger]

Now: If you dealt in truth, you would be able to challenge them...

The irony being that you never have the courage to tackle the substantive issues being discussed. You prefer just to drop in, have a snipe at posters on the periphery of the conversation, then scuttle off back from whence you came.

[SusanDoris]

The gloom is not caused by AB's posts. It is caused by your reaction to them.

would you like to take a vote on that?!

Now: If you dealt in truth, you would be able to challenge them, but you don't.

How do you personally 'deal in truth'?  I cannot think of anything I wish were true that is not.

You have a "wish list" of what you want to be true,

I do not have such a wish list .what is it that you think you know about me that I do not know myself? Please bear in mind that I am 82!

]but you can't defend it

Unless you can detail this supposed ‘wish list’, I have no idea what you think it is that I cannot defend.

…, so get increasingly irksome with anyone who disagrees with you. You have negative things to say about me, Private Fraser, Alan Burns, even Gabriella. You really need to take a good look in the mirror and sort yourself out!

And this post ends with a sanctimonius, condescending comment, indicating that you  believe you do not need at all to take a look in a mirror yourself!

[Gordon]

Oh the irony (which will no doubt be lost on you).

That has to be the least imaginative come-back yet seen in this Forum: well done you!

[Walter]

That has to be the least imaginative come-back yet seen in this Forum: well done you!

it's hilarious and sad in equal measure. But this post ,as with many others is wasted on him

[Alan Burns]

Just after I read AB's post, my reader came and so it is lovely to come back to the computer and find several rational, interesting, sensible, logical posts to take away the gloom AB's posts can cause.

Dear Susan,

I am sorry that you feel gloom at reading my posts.  I can assure you that there is nothing to fear from them.  If you could just take one first step in faith, you would be embarking on an incredible journey of discovery which you would never regret.

[Walter]

Dear Susan,

I am sorry that you feel gloom at reading my posts.  I can assure you that there is nothing to fear from them.  If you could just take one first step in faith, you would be embarking on an incredible journey of discovery which you would never regret.

we're not in fuckin church you know!!!!!

[SusanDoris]

Dear Susan,

I am sorry that you feel gloom at reading my posts.  I can assure you that there is nothing to fear from them.  If you could just take one first step in faith, you would be embarking on an incredible journey of discovery which you would never regret.

that comes acrosss to me as cloying sentimental smugness, and shows no understanding at all of me.

[Alan Burns]

we're not in fuckin church you know!!!!!

But can I remind you that you are posting on the Searching for God thread under the Christian topic.  Am I not allowed to extol the virtues of finding God?

[Walter]

But can I remind you that you are posting on the Searching for God thread under the Christian topic.  Am I not allowed to extol the virtues of finding God?

the title is ;
Searching for GOD dot dot dot .  Its not a question !

besides , you already know how SD feels about it.  And its the wrong place to start proselytising

[torridon]

Dear Susan,

I am sorry that you feel gloom at reading my posts.  I can assure you that there is nothing to fear from them.  If you could just take one first step in faith, you would be embarking on an incredible journey of discovery which you would never regret.

Don't be so patronising.

Do you think Susan is ten years old or something ?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will

Timely link I think.

Elephant in the room here is experimenters are asking subjects to make decisions and they apparently do!

[Alan Burns]

Don't be so patronising.

Do you think Susan is ten years old or something ?

It is never too late to use God's gift of free will to accept His offer of eternal salvation

[Nearly Sane]

It is never too late to use God's gift of free will to accept His offer of eternal salvation

It's amazing quite how many logically incoherent concepts you managed to pack into that sentence,