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What you seem to ignore is human awareness. A binary switch can be perceived in human awareness. We can foresee the potential consequences of switching it either way. We can make a conscious choice which way to switch it, and when, or not to switch it at all. It is all driven by our human awareness...
...not by the emergent properties of material elements under the total control of nature alone.
That's rich coming from someone who has been expounding on the soul's ability to do the unfeasible for three years now. It is not possible to make a choice that is neither consequential to its determining factors nor is it random; the suggestion is meaningless. Make your mind up Alan, you are merely inventing 'soul' to do the unfeasible free will thing whilst arbitrarily denying 'soul' the ability to do other, more obviously unfeasible things. Time to ditch the double standards.
You really should face up to the logic Alan - and either attempt to provide a refutation or admit that you are rejecting logic itself in favour of blind faith.
At least, the linking of the supernatural with the feasible, injects a note of humour. One of the problems with supernatural stuff is that it seems to have no limits. Why should I not choose to become a warthog, or travel to the stars? Watch me, I'm free!
But as I have previously indicated, the fact that I have the conscious freedom to reject your logic shows your logic to be wrong.
So what precisely is it that you perceive to be determining my rejection?
But the alternative scenario of everything being an unavoidable consequence to previous events offers no freedom whatsoever.
And all along I keep thinking, do the mother and father of AB's grandson also think in the same ignorant and silly way that AB does? I feel so sorry for that grandson if he is going to be indoctrinated with so many, many falsehoods.
Nonsense. It offers the person you are - due to your nature, nurture, and your lifetime of experience - the freedom to choose to do whatever it wants to do in any given circumstance. What could be more free?
Quote from: Stranger on March 14, 2018, 08:57:55 AMNonsense. It offers the person you are - due to your nature, nurture, and your lifetime of experience - the freedom to choose to do whatever it wants to do in any given circumstance. What could be more free?The nonsense is in your claim that something entirely defined by the consequences to past events can be classed as freedom - it obviously can't.
The problem being that is just nonsense. Are you really so clueless, when it comes to logic or are you just trying to avoid facing up to the logic?You are - due to some combination of your inability to think clearly or grasp logic, or your indoctrination and blind faith.
The nonsense is in your claim that something entirely defined by the consequences to past events can be classed as freedom - it obviously can't.You didn't answer my question. Nor have you addressed the logic that if all the factors that go into making a choice do not fully determine the choice, then there is nothing left to base any remaining choice on, so any final choice must be random.I know you dare not think about that enough to tackle it head on but it's there for all to see - the logic your faith has made you too afraid to face...
The factor involved in making a choice, which you seem to be unable to fully comprehend, is the conscious will of the human soul.
Quote from: Stranger on March 14, 2018, 10:35:32 AM...You didn't answer my question. Nor have you addressed the logic that if all the factors that go into making a choice do not fully determine the choice, then there is nothing left to base any remaining choice on, so any final choice must be random.I know you dare not think about that enough to tackle it head on but it's there for all to see - the logic your faith has made you too afraid to face...The factor involved in making a choice, which you seem to be unable to fully comprehend, is the conscious will of the human soul.
...You didn't answer my question. Nor have you addressed the logic that if all the factors that go into making a choice do not fully determine the choice, then there is nothing left to base any remaining choice on, so any final choice must be random.I know you dare not think about that enough to tackle it head on but it's there for all to see - the logic your faith has made you too afraid to face...
Hmm - you do realise of course Susan that you don’t come across as remotely genuine in your concern for AB’s grandson. It’s a shame you don’t seem to have the skill to argue the point but if AB’s grandson is the best you can manage as a post, well, that’s determinism for you.
You don't seem to fully comprehend the points made by other posters.
Of course I understand what they are saying...
True freedom to choose can only be invoked by an event which is not pre determined by past events, but determined by something which exists and acts in the present - the conscious will of the human soul.
Why would anyone 'fully comprehend' a concept that you openly admit you cannot fully explain and the parts that you have attempted to are logically incoherent?
I for one, don't believe you.Once again... (just to see you ignore it again). If all the factors that might influence the choice that this thingy that "exists and acts in the present" is making do not fully define its choice, then there is nothing left to base the remaining choice on, so it must be made for no reason, which means randomly...
I admit that I do not fully understand how the conscious will of the human soul interacts with my physical brain. Neither do I understand how the force of gravity acts upon material elements - but I know it exists because of what it does. There is nothing logically incoherent about the conscious will of the human soul. Without it we would be entirely driven by the uncontrollable forces of nature with no concept of freedom.
Quote from: Stranger on March 14, 2018, 11:45:51 AMI for one, don't believe you.Once again... (just to see you ignore it again). If all the factors that might influence the choice that this thingy that "exists and acts in the present" is making do not fully define its choice, then there is nothing left to base the remaining choice on, so it must be made for no reason, which means randomly...You used two terms here which show the error of your logic. To influence a choice is not the same thing as defining a choice. Can you not see the difference?
You certainly havn't managed to acquire any converts here on this forum, no brownie points gained either
try lying to very young children in the same way your henchmen do
; thats a point, do you get brownie points for lying to very young children?
Strange. I don't see a queue of the Christians here rushing to disagree with what Alan has been saying.Ahh. I think you'll now find that you have a burden of proof problem. Your positive statement. Over to you to demonstrate that claim.The burden of proof is again on you to back up this claim.
