Searching for GOD...

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

I don't get how same sex marriage is an oxymoron - & I do know what the word means, a contradiction in terms. The Bible says marriage is for a man and a woman and most of the time it is but no reason why marriage can't mean man+man and woman+woman just becos Bible doesn't mention it. Doubt they thought of it in those days, we didn't until a few years ago.

I would say that the Bible doesn't just suggest it, it defines it this way. When God said that it wasn't good for man (Adam) to be alone, he created the woman (Eve). He said that the two come together and become one flesh. That's what marriage is! Male+male or female+female cannot become one flesh. Furthermore, if you want to see a practical example of it, just get two magnets and see what happens when the north+south poles are put together and contrast it with when two north or two south poles are put together.

If two men / two women want to come together in some sort of union, call it something else. Ask yourself why it was necessary to use the word marriage? It's because they know that what they are doing is unnatural, yet want to give it an air of credibility.

Don't get the antenatal infanticide. Abortions generally take place well before a foetus (or embryo) can survive without mother, think or feel, it's virtually part of a mother. I understand misgivings about late abortions but not the usual 12 weeks and under.

If abortion was used only in extreme cases (life of the mother and/or child at risk, or if a woman was raped and became pregnant),  I could understand. Sadly, now it has become a lifestyle choice. I found it odd just recently how many were getting on Trump's case about children being separated from their parents at the US border, yet where is this same concern for the unborn child?

I didn't realise you were quite so extreme in your views Sword.

It's not a matter of being extreme. Extreme is a relative word. Some liberals can be considered extreme in their approach to their liberalism! Just watch their intolerance towards those who disagree with them, e.g. the attitude taken towards Andrea Leadsom in the Conservative Party leadership elections.

[Gordon]

#30323Somewhat ironic calling out someone on lack of knowledge and then spelling the word incorrectly!

You might wish to know that Susan's eyesight is impaired and that she needs to use technology to be able to post here at all.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

You might wish to know that Susan's eyesight is impaired and that she needs to use technology to be able to post here at all.

Well, that makes her desperation to accost the likes of Alan Burns at every opportunity (as evidenced on e.g. this thread) even more shameful!

[Roses]

The more SoftheS posts the more extreme he appears to be. Like NM his posts should be dismissed as nonsense, imo.

[Shaker]

#31009
You should, otherwise why are you so bothered about what is said in Isaiah 45:7?

I'm not.

I'm pointing out that Burns has been caught out in a blatant contradiction.

He stated (#30975) that God does not create evil.

The book that he purports to follow says that God creates evil.

That's a contradiction.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Even our C of E archbishop and the pope accept the T of E Sword, what's the problem?

Unfortunately ippy more and more church leaders in the public eye, instead of standing up for what the bible teachers when alternatives are presented to them, go with the alternatives and then try and find a way to reconcile the two.

You need to remember it's only the ideas presented on this forum that get broadsided, I would imagine we would more than likely be good neighbours and get on well with each other outside of these differences we have on the forum and let's face it Sword creationism's hardly backed up with shedloads of evidence as is T of E.

and without rehashing the debate here, I would suggest that a key disagreement with what you have said here is because of the differences in approach to how the evidence is treated.

I do actually wish you well even though we disagree, regards ippy.

Thank you, and may i reciprocate.

[Gordon]

I would say that the Bible doesn't just suggest it, it defines it this way. When God said that it wasn't good for man (Adam) to be alone, he created the woman (Eve). He said that the two come together and become one flesh. That's what marriage is! Male+male or female+female cannot become one flesh. Furthermore, if you want to see a practical example of it, just get two magnets and see what happens when the north+south poles are put together and contrast it with when two north or two south poles are put together.

That, old chap, is as good a use of the fallacies of authority and tradition as I've seen for a while. 'Marriage' is not the sole province of Christianity you know, and of course not all Christians think as you do. Love the association between biology and magnets, mainly because it so gloriously daft.

If two men / two women want to come together in some sort of union, call it something else. Ask yourself why it was necessary to use the word marriage? It's because they know that what they are doing is unnatural, yet want to give it an air of credibility.

'Marriage' isn't yours to define and your disapproval is of no consequence compared to achieving equality within society.

If abortion was used only in extreme cases (life of the mother and/or child at risk, or if a woman was raped and became pregnant),  I could understand. Sadly, now it has become a lifestyle choice. I found it odd just recently how many were getting on Trump's case about children being separated from their parents at the US border, yet where is this same concern for the unborn child?

Fortunately for the rest of us your rambling biases are worth the square root of hee-haw.

It's not a matter of being extreme. Extreme is a relative word. Some liberals can be considered extreme in their approach to their liberalism! Just watch their intolerance towards those who disagree with them, e.g. the attitude taken towards Andrea Leadsom in the Conservative Party leadership elections.

Which seems like everyday politics to me.

[Gordon]

Well, that makes her desperation to accost the likes of Alan Burns at every opportunity (as evidenced on e.g. this thread) even more shameful!

What is really shameful here is this insensitive response of yours.

[Shaker]

#31010
Ok. What type of a marriage between a man and a woman is same sex marriage?

It isn't.

When was the definition/nature of marriage changed?

It wasn't changed, it was extended to same-sex couples on July 17th 2014.

Was there a referendum?

No. We don't have referendums on basic human rights.

And don't say that it was when it was made government policy! You could not cite discrimination against same-sex couples unless the definition had *already* been changed

The discrimination against same-sex couples was in their not being allowed to marry. 

so who changed it

The coalition government of the time.

and when?

Already answered.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

I'm not.

I'm pointing out that Burns has been caught out in a blatant contradiction.

He stated that God does not create evil.

The book that he purports to follow says that God creates evil.

That's a contradiction.

So is the fact that the same book also says that God did not send His Son into the world. Yet there are millions of Christians all over the world who believe that His Son died on the cross for their sins. Why?

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

What is really shameful here is this insensitive response of yours.

According to who? You? (ROTFL)

[Gordon]

So is the fact that the same book also says that God did not send His Son into the world. Yet there are millions of Christians all over the world who believe that His Son died on the cross for their sins. Why?

They're perhaps taking it too seriously if, as you say, it contains contradictions so maybe it is their credulity getting in the way.

[Shaker]

I would say that the Bible doesn't just suggest it, it defines it this way.

We don't live in a theocracy. The Bible is irrelevant. 

When God said that it wasn't good for man (Adam) to be alone, he created the woman (Eve). He said that the two come together and become one flesh. That's what marriage is! Male+male or female+female cannot become one flesh.

Fairy tales don't dictate law.

If two men / two women want to come together in some sort of union, call it something else. Ask yourself why it was necessary to use the word marriage?

Because that's what it is.

It's because they know that what they are doing is unnatural, yet want to give it an air of credibility.

Homosexuality is found in thousands of animal species.

Religious asshattery is found in one.

I know what looks the more "unnatural" to me - and that's even without getting into the appeal to nature fallacy blatantly committed here.

If abortion was used only in extreme cases (life of the mother and/or child at risk, or if a woman was raped and became pregnant),  I could understand. Sadly, now it has become a lifestyle choice. I found it odd just recently how many were getting on Trump's case about children being separated from their parents at the US border, yet where is this same concern for the unborn child?

Before c. 23-24 weeks foetuses are not sentient. Children are.

It's not a matter of being extreme. Extreme is a relative word. Some liberals can be considered extreme in their approach to their liberalism! Just watch their intolerance towards those who disagree with them, e.g. the attitude taken towards Andrea Leadsom in the Conservative Party leadership elections.

Ah yes, the woman who said that she was a better candidate because she had had children whereas Teresa May hasn't. What a peach.

[Shaker]

Well, that makes her desperation to accost the likes of Alan Burns at every opportunity (as evidenced on e.g. this thread) even more shameful!

Accost? Challenge and criticise. As is her right and privilege.

[Shaker]

So is the fact that the same book also says that God did not send His Son into the world. Yet there are millions of Christians all over the world who believe that His Son died on the cross for their sins. Why?

Credulity born frequently of upbringing and sustained by emotional need.

[SusanDoris]

Ok. Let's see what can be learnt from Susan Doris' contributions to this section ...

#31006 (about me)
#30831 (about Alan Burns)
#30816
#30751
Not looking good, is it Susan Doris. Feeling any sense of embarrassment yet?

I could cite your #30703, #30652, #30646, #30559 too...
 
#30323Somewhat ironic calling out someone on lack of knowledge and then spelling the word incorrectly!

All of this, and just this thread!

Well, I am most grateful to you, SotS, for quoting me as you have and bringing all the points I have made together. Much appreciated!!!

I will, however, apologise for not hearing the slight difference in spelling when synthetic Dave read it. That is an unusual occurrence.
-----------------
 As I know Ippy will be reading this - thank you, Ippy, for your interesting answer.

[SusanDoris]

The more SoftheS posts the more extreme he appears to be. Like NM his posts should be dismissed as nonsense, imo.

Oh, I do agree!!

[Maeght]

Well, that makes her desperation to accost the likes of Alan Burns at every opportunity (as evidenced on e.g. this thread) even more shameful!

Why?

[Maeght]

I would say that the Bible doesn't just suggest it, it defines it this way. When God said that it wasn't good for man (Adam) to be alone, he created the woman (Eve). He said that the two come together and become one flesh. That's what marriage is!

According to the Christian Bible, but we don't define words based on wghat the Bible writers think they should mean.

Male+male or female+female cannot become one flesh.

Irrelevant.

Furthermore, if you want to see a practical example of it, just get two magnets and see what happens when the north+south poles are put together and contrast it with when two north or two south poles are put together.

What on earth has magnetism got to do with it? Irrelevant.

[SusanDoris]

Why?

Nice question - I shall be interested to see the answer!

[ippy]

Sword I've had a read of your more recent posts and as for spelling I have a job remembering how to spell my own name the spell check on my desktop P C must run hot for all of the time I write anything and more frequently than I like it can't even correct the words I'm struggling to find out how to spell, I know the words and have no idea of the letter order then I have to go to Mr Google, 'he knows all', and wait until he says do you mean? It's never going to alter for me it's been the same from when I first began to write, it's better you understand than have perfect spelling, unless and of course when legalities are involved.

I have also noticed that whenever anything comes up that at first looks like it might be a challenge to T of E to date these challenges fizzle out every time, each new discovery fits the theory like a glove there was something newly discovered within the last couple of weeks that completely fitted in with the T of E, in fact you'll find nowadays with all serious scientists the theory is so watertight it's even taken as the essential facts required for any serious form of study taken in this area.

As for where you have said the following: ('and without rehashing the debate here, I would suggest that a key disagreement with what you have said here is because of the differences in approach to how the evidence is treated'), this isn't worth a answer we all know what it is that can be taken as viable evidence, even those of us without a degree can understand that much.

Even if you don't like the thought of same sex people getting married have you ever stopped to think how unkind it would be to these people if you were to stop them being married as they wish, and exactly what difference it makes for you if same sex people do get married, I absolutely detest the way people like yourself teach your beliefs to very young vulnerable children as though they are true factual beliefs and that's far more dishonest, underhanded and contemptible than various good, decent and harmless couples wishing to commit to each other, yes grow up Sword where's there any harm in referring their commitment as marriage other than it offends well known bigots and good job if it does offend bigots they deserve to be offended.

Regards ippy

 

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Even if you don't like the thought of same sex people getting married have you ever stopped to think how unkind it would be to these people if you were to stop them being married as they wish,

Then don't call it marriage!! Marriage is when MALE + FEMALE come together and the two become one flesh. Two people of the same sex can no more get married than one can start calling a circle a square!

I absolutely detest the way people like yourself teach your beliefs to very young vulnerable children as though they are true factual beliefs and that's far more dishonest, underhanded and contemptible than various good, decent and harmless couples wishing to commit to each other

Well, you guys have had enough time to disprove them, but you can't can you? Instead, you hide like cowards behind philosophical bullshit and call it reasoning. No doubt, Gordon will regale us with the latest in his magnificent bullshit and SusanDoris will do her NFL-like pom-pom waving act jumping on the coat-tails of other posters. Maybe get Bluehillside back here so he can tell us why his dancing pixies on keyboards are responsible!

It is not religious people who need to grow up. It is atheists like you, unable to handle the fact that there is a God. Try as you might, you come up with all sorts of excuses to deny the obvious, to deny the truth. So in your own words,
Grow Up

[Roses]

Then don't call it marriage!! Marriage is when MALE + FEMALE come together and the two become one flesh. Two people of the same sex can no more get married than one can start calling a circle a square!
Well, you guys have had enough time to disprove them, but you can't can you? Instead, you hide like cowards behind philosophical bullshit and call it reasoning. No doubt, Gordon will regale us with the latest in his magnificent bullshit and SusanDoris will do her NFL-like pom-pom waving act jumping on the coat-tails of other posters. Maybe get Bluehillside back here so he can tell us why his dancing pixies on keyboards are responsible!

It is not religious people who need to grow up. It is atheists like you, unable to handle the fact that there is a God. Try as you might, you come up with all sorts of excuses to deny the obvious, to deny the truth. So in your own words,
Grow Up

It is you who needs to grow up and stop make statements for which there is no evidence, like the existence of  a god. You might believe there is one, but that is different to you producing verifiable proof.  The Bible isn't evidence.

I know I have said it boringly often, but it would be amusing to see the look on the faces of anti-gay Christian bigots, like yourself, if it was proved Jesus was in a same sex relationship with the disciple he was reputed to have loved. There is nothing wrong in being gay and getting married, only in your warped view of things.

[Maeght]

Then don't call it marriage!! Marriage is when MALE + FEMALE come together and the two become one flesh.

No its not.

Two people of the same sex can no more get married than one can start calling a circle a square!

Yes they can.

Well, you guys have had enough time to disprove them, but you can't can you? Instead, you hide like cowards behind philosophical bullshit and call it reasoning. No doubt, Gordon will regale us with the latest in his magnificent bullshit and SusanDoris will do her NFL-like pom-pom waving act jumping on the coat-tails of other posters. Maybe get Bluehillside back here so he can tell us why his dancing pixies on keyboards are responsible!

It is not religious people who need to grow up. It is atheists like you, unable to handle the fact that there is a God. Try as you might, you come up with all sorts of excuses to deny the obvious, to deny the truth. So in your own words,
Grow Up

Its not a fact, its a belief for which there is no evidence.

[SusanDoris]

No its not.

Yes they can.

Its not a fact, its a belief for which there is no evidence.

Interestinghow SotS has never, ever, provided one indisputable, independently verifiable, objective fact about God, isn't it, nor ever a method on which to work. I think his posts are some of the most unpleasant I have read during my years on message boards. They seem to sneer - no doubt someone will correct me if I am mistaken here -  and do not acknowledge the fact that he is using the NPF.