Author Topic: Searching for GOD...  (Read 3877839 times)

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31950 on: October 18, 2018, 07:37:54 PM »
You may imagine you are discussing how the universe works with me but that is clearly an illusion.

I look forward to you explaining how they fit in with neuroscience in anyway more significant than you are able to spell them.




No, I'm off now now Hillside has reminded me of the calibre of antitheist on this forum.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31951 on: October 18, 2018, 07:38:36 PM »
So....no answer to my points then.


No, I'm off now now Hillside has reminded me of the calibre of antitheist on this forum.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31952 on: October 18, 2018, 07:38:51 PM »
There is but you obviously haven't got the intellect to see it.

No, I'm off now now Hillside has reminded me of the calibre of antitheist on this forum.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31953 on: October 18, 2018, 07:40:19 PM »
Gabriella,

No, you are – “any” means “any”. Not “some’, not “occasionally”, not “when it suits me”, not “every third time” and not anything else other than “any”. When you’re reduced to pretending even basic words no longer mean what they actually mean you’ve well and truly lost it.   

No, that’s what the word means ffs.

Stop trolling. Telling you what someone says is not the same as saying you’re quoting verbatim. He says he’d consistently deny etc. I know this because he said so when he used the inclusive, invariable, without exception term “any”. So do you. 

Yes I did – many times in fact. That’s the substantive point you keep ignoring in favour of endless trolling about irrelevancies remember?

Still trolling again. Why bother lying about that when it’s so easy to see what I actually said?

No it isn’t. Stop lying.   

Fuck me but you’re obtuse. It’s not my job to explain basic probability to you – look it up for yourself.   

Just so you know, describing what someone says but not saying you’re quoting verbatim doesn’t change the accuracy of describing what someone says. Stop trolling.

It’s his assertion, ask him.

He tells us that his deepest/most fundamental feeling is that consciousness cannot be naturalistic, therefore it cannot be naturalistic no matter what any scientific theory may say to the contrary. QED     

Weird.

Typo – it was 31260 and of course he was talking about his most fundamental perception of reality. His mistake though (one of many) is to think that the depth of that perception somehow correlates to the validity of his claim that no theory could ever falsify the explanations he thinks his perception provides.

As you have no interest ever in engaging with that substantive point though and will just continue trolling I’ll leave you to it.
As I explained to you before - accusations of trolling when challenged on your assertions don't work in terms of a persuasive argument. I'm going to keep challenging your interpretations and you can keep accusing me of trolling if you want - that's up to you.

I don't agree with your interpretations of the meaning of certain words Alan has used - if you're frustrated by that, oh well.

AB claiming to have fundamental perceptions of reality and you asserting that AB claimed to know deepest truths or deepest reality isn't similar. His assertion was that his conscious reasoned choices are not just a product of past physical reactions. If I have understood him correctly he seems to be asserting that some non-physical aspect interacts with the brain to influence reasoned choices, and that non-physical interaction has its choices determined by perceptions of non-physical past events. I could have misunderstood that - but he does keep saying choices are determined so that's the interpretation I came up with. 

Regarding probability - I refer you to my previous response: How are you calculating the probability of what is on the missing 50% of a jigsaw puzzle when you have absolutely no idea what is on that missing 50% as you don't have the tools to decipher any kind of image and do not know if the 50% you do have corresponds to the more complex missing 50%? What data are you using to work out the probability?

You are assuming the jigsaw puzzle has a recognisable picture that can be guessed from the few pieces you have. The pieces you do have could be black and all the missing pieces white - why would you assume that black pieces would allow you more chance of guessing missing white pieces. Why would you even assume that a jigsaw puzzle has a recognisable picture or pattern? Why would you assume that the pieces you have have any pictorial link to the missing pieces? Why are you then assuming that probabilities about guessing jigsaw puzzle pictures in a very simplistic scenario where you have assumed a recognisable jigsaw picture have any relevance to the missing information about how the brain makes conscious choices?   
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31954 on: October 18, 2018, 07:45:17 PM »
Hi Susan,

Quite – Gabriella seems to be so driven to indulge in ever more otiose micro-analyses of terms that it’s forcing her into ludicrous positions about the actual point of the discussion. Manifestly a jig-saw puzzle (or any other data environment) will be more likely to give you a better shot at identifying the more complete picture when you have some of the pieces than when you have none of them. It’s frankly bizarre to suggest otherwise. That was the point about scientific theories – however incomplete, generally they do at least have some data that can be built on to develop more robust theories. Not always of course – sometimes new information will arise that causes the theory to be junked entirely (as with the four humours idea of medicine) – but probabilistically some information is more likely to lead to more information than no information at all.     

This seems entirely uncontroversial to me as a proposition, and it’s why the findings of neuroscience in particular seem to me to be a better bet for understanding consciousness more fully than evidence- and logic-free speculations like “soul”, but that’s just me I guess.
Deviation into Jigsaw puzzles.


I am not Alan and am quite willing to accept the human being as being totally explained as a mechanism or computer...a conclusion which would not be related to any debate about how and what the universe is or physicalism.


Words like 'Better bet' are no substitute for real science.


You have no idea about what the probabilities are and are therefor wrong to talk about them favouring you.


It seems there is at the moment no scientific explanation of self/consciousness that doesn't come unstuck because of ''Blackbox'' or obvious ''explaining away''.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 07:53:38 PM by The poster formerly known as.... »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31955 on: October 18, 2018, 07:47:18 PM »

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31956 on: October 18, 2018, 07:48:50 PM »
Did someone just cough?

No, I'm off now now Hillside has reminded me of the calibre of antitheist on this forum.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31957 on: October 18, 2018, 07:51:23 PM »
Seb,

Please see Shaker's Law here


https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Internet_law

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31958 on: October 18, 2018, 07:56:22 PM »
Seb,

Please see Shaker's Law here


https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Internet_law
People around here still use ''Rationalwiki''...well I never.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31959 on: October 18, 2018, 08:03:41 PM »
Vlad,

Quote
People around here still use ''Rationalwiki''...well I never.

It shows.
"Don't make me come down there."

God

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31960 on: October 18, 2018, 08:04:54 PM »

Stranger

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31962 on: October 18, 2018, 08:11:37 PM »
People around here still use ''Rationalwiki''...well I never.
I can show Shaker exists. People use the bible but can't show god exists. You have no useful standards.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31963 on: October 18, 2018, 08:13:13 PM »
I can show Shaker exists. People use the bible but can't shoebox exists. You have no useful standards.
And you think Shaker is ''a useful standard''?...…………………. I see.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31964 on: October 18, 2018, 08:14:02 PM »
And just to note, every time Vlad posts he evidences Shaker's Law.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31965 on: October 18, 2018, 08:15:20 PM »
And you think Shaker is ''a useful standard''?...…………………. I see.
No, I think you are evidencing the law every time you now pist.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31966 on: October 18, 2018, 08:18:50 PM »
No, I think you are evidencing the law every time you now pist.
Now you've gone all 'Allo, Allo' on me so I shill bod you good ovenang.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31967 on: October 18, 2018, 08:21:24 PM »
Now you've gone all 'Allo, Allo' on me so I shill bod you good ovenang.
Gud Moaning, you are still shooing the lav evereetome you pist.

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31968 on: October 19, 2018, 08:10:40 AM »
As Vlad is back, I shall have to allow extra time on R&E to scroll past his posts.
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31969 on: October 19, 2018, 08:17:04 AM »
As Vlad is back, I shall have to allow extra time on R&E to scroll past his posts.

You should be ok Susan as Vlad has stated from here;

No, I'm off now now Hillside has reminded me of the calibre of antitheist on this forum.

...and he is an honest guy so should be good to his word, shouldn't he?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

SusanDoris

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31970 on: October 19, 2018, 08:25:56 AM »
You should be ok Susan as Vlad has stated from here;

...and he is an honest guy so should be good to his word, shouldn't he?

:D Well, we can live in hopes!
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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31971 on: October 19, 2018, 09:13:40 AM »
I didn’t realise Vlad had declared that he wasn’t going to post here. Must have missed that thread.

Floo and Bluehillside also stated they were leaving and then came back, and there are possibly others. I’m not seeing the problem. Humans change their minds about stuff - something to do with the conscious, sub-conscious  decision-making processes.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31972 on: October 19, 2018, 09:24:56 AM »
I didn’t realise Vlad had declared that he wasn’t going to post here. Must have missed that thread.

Floo and Bluehillside also stated they were leaving and then came back, and there are possibly others. I’m not seeing the problem. Humans change their minds about stuff - something to do with the conscious, sub-conscious  decision-making processes.
A Vlexit is maybe not as theatrically dramatic as  Floo Flounce but it s a stalwart performance to which we are granted audience all too little!
Entertaining in its own small way, if you like that kind of thing.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31973 on: October 19, 2018, 09:33:33 AM »
A Vlexit is maybe not as theatrically dramatic as  Floo Flounce but it s a stalwart performance to which we are granted audience all too little!
Entertaining in its own small way, if you like that kind of thing.
Vlexit  :) - nice. I missed it - was it a separate thread or on here?
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Stranger

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Re: Searching for GOD...
« Reply #31974 on: October 19, 2018, 09:52:48 AM »
But then again there is no such thing as Floo obsession or Hillside obsession....well not in that sense....but there is Vlad obsession. Ask Nearly Sane....I recall he invented the phrase....whatever it is, watch folks desperately obsess about something I've said.

It was an extreme example of a failed leaving announcement: you announced your departure and then posted again a few minutes later and for the next hour or so - and here you are back this morning...

Perhaps you should try harder next time?
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