Searching for GOD...

[Sriram]

But there is far more to the reality and purpose behind our existence than the aspiration to "be civilised".  I believe the awareness of our spiritual dimension here on earth gives us just a glimpse of the true reality which is our ultimate destination.  We cannot discern purpose and meaning behind our existence using our own limited mental faculties alone.  So we look to divine revelations from prophets and scripture, using our metal faculties to pray for discernment to distinguish man made attempts to seek God from God's own revelation.

There are a multitude of human attempts to seek ultimate reality, purpose and meaning, but there is only one truth, and we only have only one lifetime to find it.

Further to my above post....being civilized is not a mean achievement. If you look at it, being civilized is everything that religions and spiritual teachers have been advocating for centuries. In fact, today's civilized humane universal brotherhood is what religions have been teaching all along. Non violence, honesty, non discrimination, respect for the elderly, love for all forms of life...etc. is what being civilized is all about, and that is what religions have taught.

While today we might disregard religions, it is religions that have had a major role in civilizing us. Without it we would probably still be savages. 

IMO, spirituality is all about following the rules in attitudes and behavior rather than belief in a God.  God is just an image that we have created in various forms to explain the unknown and to serve as both a nurturant and a punitive parent. 

[torridon]

There are a multitude of human ideas about how God should do things.
But we can't aspire to know the mind of God.

That's a poor excuse for persisting with spreading irrational ideas.  If you write the words, then you justify them.

[torridon]

But there is far more to the reality and purpose behind our existence than the aspiration to "be civilised".  I believe the awareness of our spiritual dimension here on earth gives us just a glimpse of the true reality which is our ultimate destination.  We cannot discern purpose and meaning behind our existence using our own limited mental faculties alone.  So we look to divine revelations from prophets and scripture, using our metal faculties to pray for discernment to distinguish man made attempts to seek God from God's own revelation.

There are a multitude of human attempts to seek ultimate reality, purpose and meaning, but there is only one truth, and we only have only one lifetime to find it.

 

Sriram believes we have several lifetimes to 'find it'.  What makes you think he is wrong and you are right ?

If our 'ultimate destination' is another reality beyond this one, then why has god put us in this earthly life of confusion in the first place ?  And why make our progress into the next life contingent upon our abilities to discern the correct truth about the bigger picture when he has limited those very abilities leaving us in the pathetic position of trying to figure out which holy scriptures are correct and which prophets are genuine. This is absurd contradictory thinking, it is inconsistent with the notion of a heavenly father wishing to do right by his children.  I would not treat my children this way, hiding a secret of existential importance from them and privileging only those that succeeded by hook or by crook to figure the secret out against the clock.  If I treated my kids this way my children would be taken into care to protect them from me.

[Stranger]

There are many Christians who can give far better reasons for believing in God than I have been able to post on this forum.  But I have no doubt that you will continue to follow the ethos of Sassy's opening post and look for reasons not to believe any of them to be true or valid.

This is a particularly silly characterisation. There are thousands of gods that humanity believes in, or has believed in, and I don't see any reason to take any of them seriously. I don't need any other reasons to not search. All the arguments for god I've seen are not only invalid, they are obviously and hopelessly invalid.

And, true to form, you still haven't answered my question: if there is a god with an important message, why is it hiding?

[wigginhall]

I'm just staggered at the sheer perversity of Alan's description.   There is a meaning "behind" this life, and our mental faculties are too limited to discern it, but luckily there are divine revelations, however, watch out, it's difficult for us to separate these from mere human ideas.   As torridon said, setting this system up is highly sadistic behaviour, and any parent doing this would be condemned as a monster.  But again luckily, we have Alan as our guide!

[Gordon]

But there is far more to the reality and purpose behind our existence than the aspiration to "be civilised".  I believe the awareness of our spiritual dimension here on earth gives us just a glimpse of the true reality which is our ultimate destination.  We cannot discern purpose and meaning behind our existence using our own limited mental faculties alone.  So we look to divine revelations from prophets and scripture, using our metal faculties to pray for discernment to distinguish man made attempts to seek God from God's own revelation.

There are a multitude of human attempts to seek ultimate reality, purpose and meaning, but there is only one truth, and we only have only one lifetime to find it.

You seem to have developed the ability to concatenate fallacies, as we see here.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm just staggered at the sheer perversity of Alan's description.   There is a meaning "behind" this life, and our mental faculties are too limited to discern it, but luckily there are divine revelations, however, watch out, it's difficult for us to separate these from mere human ideas.   As torridon said, setting this system up is highly sadistic behaviour, and any parent doing this would be condemned as a monster.  But again luckily, we have Alan as our guide!

It's sort of like an escape room, I suppose.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Been a while since someone tried Pascal's wager though.

I rather think you are taking that already having heard what the bet is and taking a punt on a certain outcome on the other hand perhaps what Pascal is saying is that if you take the other side of the wager you will find God in the here and now rather than just post mortem.

Or perhaps it is just a parable about commitment.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's sort of like an escape room, I suppose.

I rather think religionethics is like an escape room.......
.snork.

[Alan Burns]

And, true to form, you still haven't answered my question: if there is a god with an important message, why is it hiding?

But God is not hiding.
He has made Himself known to us by becoming one of us, and next week this momentous event will be celebrated throughout the world.

[Stranger]

But God is not hiding.
He has made Himself known to us by becoming one of us, and next week this momentous event will be celebrated throughout the world.

Don't be silly. That is just one of many religious beliefs and it is just as lacking in supporting evidence or reasoning as any of the others. It's not even as if all the people who believe this actually agree about the exact message.

If there is a god with an important message, why is it hiding in something that looks for all the world like just another human created myth? Why would we need to search? Why play hide-and-seek?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This is a particularly silly characterisation. There are thousands of gods that humanity believes in, or has believed in, and I don't see any reason to take any of them seriously. I don't need any other reasons to not search. All the arguments for god I've seen are not only invalid, they are obviously and hopelessly invalid.

And, true to form, you still haven't answered my question: if there is a god with an important message, why is it hiding?

Yes but use your loaf. Those thousands of Gods reduce down to a handful of ideas about existence, the alternative, frankly being whatever one can pull out of one's jacksie.

So its polytheism, monotheism or pantheism.

The trouble is with polytheism is its most succcesful exponents could only get a group of gods who were really only exaggerated people. Any polytheism which has lingered is I would argue backed up by a pantheism e.g. Hinduism and the paganism held around here.

Monotheism gets a worse reception in Atheist and new Atheist circles because the idea of the divine is actually impervious to science and shows materialism, naturalism etc up for being mere philosophies competing like any other.

[Nearly Sane]

I rather think religionethics is like an escape room.......
.snork.

Yep, trying to work out what your posts mean is like doing a 3-2-1 clue.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And, true to form, you still haven't answered my question: if there is a god with an important message, why is it hiding?

Is it God hiding or is God just difficult to make out if you are running full pelt from him and not looking back?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yep, trying to work out what your posts mean is like doing a 3-2-1 clue.

Oh come on.....religionethics is just like a huge train set for those who like to talk "worldview" and those who think they shouldn't.

[Stranger]

Yes but use your loaf. Those thousands of Gods reduce down to a handful of ideas about existence, the alternative, frankly being whatever one can pull out of one's jacksie.

So its polytheism, monotheism or pantheism.

The trouble is with polytheism is its most succcesful exponents could only get a group of gods who were really only exaggerated people. Any polytheism which has lingered is I would argue backed up by a pantheism e.g. Hinduism and the paganism held around here.

None of which actually answers my question. Why would a god with an important message be playing hide-and-seek?

Monotheism gets a worse reception in Atheist and new Atheist circles because the idea of the divine is actually impervious to science and shows materialism, naturalism etc up for being mere philosophies competing like any other.

 

[Nearly Sane]

Oh come on.....religionethics is just like a huge train set for those who like to talk "worldview" and those who think they shouldn't.

Are you Dusty Bin?

[Stranger]

Is it God hiding or is God just difficult to make out if you are running full pelt from him and not looking back?

As if this wasn't silly enough by itself, the fact that even religious believers don't agree means that, if a god exists, its message is not obvious or clear even when people actually want to believe in a god.

Back to hide-and-seek.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Are you Dusty Bin?

I might have bin.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As if this wasn't silly enough by itself, the fact that even religious believers don't agree means that, if a god exists, its message is not obvious or clear even when people actually want to believe in a god.

Back to hide-and-seek.

Or it could be down to a temptation to have a manageable God who is at arms length.

Think about the idea of a God who by rights one should actually interact with and show deference to. It's anathema to the ego.

[Stranger]

Or it could be down to a temptation to have a manageable God who is at arms length.

Think about the idea of a God who by rights one should actually interact with and show deference to. It's anathema to the ego.

None of which is actually tackling the question. If a god has an important message why is it not obvious to everybody? Is this god unable to communicate clearly and to everybody, or unwilling?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

None of which is actually tackling the question. If a god has an important message why is it not obvious to everybody? Is this god unable to communicate clearly and to everybody, or unwilling?

Of course it does.
Why is God so inaccessible? Because of the convoluted psychological gyrations involved in ego protection.

[Stranger]

Of course it does.
Why is God so inaccessible? Because of the convoluted psychological gyrations involved in ego protection.

You really don't see how daft that is, do you? Does that mean that god is unable to deliver a clear message because of pesky human egos? If a god exists, most humans do a better job at communication than it does.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

There are many Christians who can give far better reasons for believing in God than I have been able to post on this forum.

We’ll just have to take your word for that then. Surely though a “deep thinker” such as you claim to be would have at least some inkling of what those “better reasons” might be wouldn’t he? If nothing else, finding some would as a minimum deter you from posting only the very bad arguments you try here wouldn’t it?

But I have no doubt that you will continue to follow the ethos of Sassy's opening post and look for reasons not to believe any of them to be true or valid.

There’s no need to “seek reasons”. All that’s necessary is to be able to identify that the reasons people try to validate their belief “god” are broken.

As I have said before, if you do not want to search for God, the evil one will supply you with plenty of reasons not to search.

The “evil one” eh? What bizarrely stunted infantilism must it take for a (presumably) grown man to think deploying the bogey man is a sensible tactic to try among adults?

And I can understand why people would not want to search for God.

So can I – the absence of any good reason to think there to be a god in the first place.

Living a life of faith takes courage, particularly in this increasingly secular western world.  It involves sacrificing many of the self centred goals of modern society and living a life of loving service to God and other people.  You may be called to take paths you would not wish to choose of your own accord.

Most of us think we lead good and productive lives without defenestrating our critical faculties in favour of ancient myths, and some would say it’s often people of “faith” who use it to cause more harm than those without it. 
 

But the rewards are far, far greater than you can ever imagine.

So you claim. From what I can see though it seems to come at a big price too – a head full of cotton wool thinking and unfounded certainties. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You really don't see how daft that is, do you? Does that mean that god is unable to deliver a clear message because of pesky human egos? If a god exists, most humans do a better job at communication than it does.

It isn't daft what you are failing to see is that theism is quite clear and Christianity is plain and God is addressing something you and indeed everyone at sometime has taken great pains to reduce and minimise ........the self. The real motivation of which is to hide it from God.