Searching for GOD...

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Your god, Alan, would be an evil, cruel monster if this were true.

FFS, how many more times? Nobody needs a reason not to believe, what is needed is the first hint of any reason at all to take any of your absurd, contradictory nonsense seriously.

I think these have been outlined by Neil Tyson De Grasse I believe.

[Nearly Sane]

I came across these words on the voice for justice web site, and thought them very appropriate for this thread:

In this time of enforced isolation, which could easily have one climbing the walls with frustration and loneliness, perhaps there is also opportunity to draw closer to God, free from distraction. 
 
There is real opportunity here to close one’s eyes to the traumas of the world, and focus instead on Christ, seeking to know him better.  To hear his voice.  And as one does that, the realities of existence, of which we are so often unaware, come more sharply into focus.  To win God is to win all.
 
So there is blessing here.  In this time of self-isolation there is a real chance to get to know God and ourselves much better.  To discover strengths and gifts we perhaps didn’t know we had – to try out ‘projects’ that we’ve always wondered about, but for which up to now we haven’t had the time.
 
We are in the eye of a storm at the moment and there can be a real temptation to despair – to shout, ‘I can’t cope.  I can’t bear this separation from loved ones.’  And especially is this true for those witnessing from afar the agonies of a loved fighting for their lives on a ventilator – knowing they can’t be with in their precious last moments.   In that situation, hard as it seems, we really do have to trust God.  But the underlying truth in all of this is that this current crisis will pass.  There is hope.  There will be light.
 
In suffering we are called to endure.  Hard as it may seem, that is where the gold is tempered and refined.   So let us encourage one another and endure, confident that at the last the Lord will bring forth something infinitely precious – in our own lives, and for humanity as a whole.
 
Be encouraged, and be strong - in trust that at the last we will see the glory of the Lord.

In these challenging times, may the Lord bless and
 keep safe you and all those you love,

So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.  Try reading psalm 139 or John's gospel and allow the profound meaning of the words to sink in.  There is nothing to fear, and you may well discover something infinitely precious - the gift of faith.

You have ben told time and again by many people that they don't seek reasons not to believe but rather just don't believe = and you comtinually then put up a lie like the above, Why is that?

[ippy]

I came across these words on the voice for justice web site, and thought them very appropriate for this thread:

In this time of enforced isolation, which could easily have one climbing the walls with frustration and loneliness, perhaps there is also opportunity to draw closer to God, free from distraction. 
 
There is real opportunity here to close one’s eyes to the traumas of the world, and focus instead on Christ, seeking to know him better.  To hear his voice.  And as one does that, the realities of existence, of which we are so often unaware, come more sharply into focus.  To win God is to win all.
 
So there is blessing here.  In this time of self-isolation there is a real chance to get to know God and ourselves much better.  To discover strengths and gifts we perhaps didn’t know we had – to try out ‘projects’ that we’ve always wondered about, but for which up to now we haven’t had the time.
 
We are in the eye of a storm at the moment and there can be a real temptation to despair – to shout, ‘I can’t cope.  I can’t bear this separation from loved ones.’  And especially is this true for those witnessing from afar the agonies of a loved fighting for their lives on a ventilator – knowing they can’t be with in their precious last moments.   In that situation, hard as it seems, we really do have to trust God.  But the underlying truth in all of this is that this current crisis will pass.  There is hope.  There will be light.
 
In suffering we are called to endure.  Hard as it may seem, that is where the gold is tempered and refined.   So let us encourage one another and endure, confident that at the last the Lord will bring forth something infinitely precious – in our own lives, and for humanity as a whole.
 
Be encouraged, and be strong - in trust that at the last we will see the glory of the Lord.

In these challenging times, may the Lord bless and
 keep safe you and all those you love,

So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.  Try reading psalm 139 or John's gospel and allow the profound meaning of the words to sink in.  There is nothing to fear, and you may well discover something infinitely precious - the gift of faith.

If you search the internet there's plenty of nut jobs and nut job organisations, congratulations Alan, you've found another one.

commiserations Alan, ippy.

[Enki]

I came across these words on the voice for justice web site, and thought them very appropriate for this thread:

In this time of enforced isolation, which could easily have one climbing the walls with frustration and loneliness, perhaps there is also opportunity to draw closer to God, free from distraction. 
 
There is real opportunity here to close one’s eyes to the traumas of the world, and focus instead on Christ, seeking to know him better.  To hear his voice.  And as one does that, the realities of existence, of which we are so often unaware, come more sharply into focus.  To win God is to win all.
 
So there is blessing here.  In this time of self-isolation there is a real chance to get to know God and ourselves much better.  To discover strengths and gifts we perhaps didn’t know we had – to try out ‘projects’ that we’ve always wondered about, but for which up to now we haven’t had the time.
 
We are in the eye of a storm at the moment and there can be a real temptation to despair – to shout, ‘I can’t cope.  I can’t bear this separation from loved ones.’  And especially is this true for those witnessing from afar the agonies of a loved fighting for their lives on a ventilator – knowing they can’t be with in their precious last moments.   In that situation, hard as it seems, we really do have to trust God.  But the underlying truth in all of this is that this current crisis will pass.  There is hope.  There will be light.
 
In suffering we are called to endure.  Hard as it may seem, that is where the gold is tempered and refined.   So let us encourage one another and endure, confident that at the last the Lord will bring forth something infinitely precious – in our own lives, and for humanity as a whole.
 
Be encouraged, and be strong - in trust that at the last we will see the glory of the Lord.

In these challenging times, may the Lord bless and
 keep safe you and all those you love,

So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.  Try reading psalm 139 or John's gospel and allow the profound meaning of the words to sink in.  There is nothing to fear, and you may well discover something infinitely precious - the gift of faith.

I do not search for reasons not to believe,  Alan, as I have told you many times in the past. Why do you continue to lie about this?

[torridon]

So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.  Try reading psalm 139 or John's gospel and allow the profound meaning of the words to sink in.  There is nothing to fear, and you may well discover something infinitely precious - the gift of faith.

Contemplation is good. Faith, on the other hand, is the enemy of reason, and therefore not something to be desired in my book.  Better to keep an open mind, if you get too emotionally attached to a belief, it blinds you to the bigger picture, to the experience of others, to reason.

[SusanDoris]

Alan

you have successfully made me ANGRY !

I don't waste any energy on feeling angry with AB's cringe-inducing stuff. I do tend to feel a bit nauseous though. Does he really think that people should rely on God rather than medical care? I could not bear to listen to every word.

[Outrider]

In this time of enforced isolation, which could easily have one climbing the walls with frustration and loneliness, perhaps there is also opportunity to draw closer to God, free from distraction.

I get to spend more time with my family than I usually do - this is amazing!

There is real opportunity here to close one’s eyes to the traumas of the world, and focus instead on Christ, seeking to know him better.

Why focus on imaginary people when I have real people here?

To hear his voice.

If you're hearing voices, seek medical help...

So there is blessing here.  In this time of self-isolation there is a real chance to get to know God and ourselves much better.  To discover strengths and gifts we perhaps didn’t know we had – to try out ‘projects’ that we’ve always wondered about, but for which up to now we haven’t had the time.

Seriously, if you can only 'find god' by depriving yourself of real-life, then how can you be sure you're not just inventing something to get through it?
 

So instead of searching for reasons not to believe, why not try opening your minds to contemplate the reality of your own spiritual nature.

I don't need to go looking for reasons not to believe, there's only one needed and I already have it - you've not given me enough evidence to think that what you're claiming is true.

To pick this particular moment, when a world-wide pandemic is killing tens of thousands of people, to suggest that actually there really is an all-powerful god that loves us looking down from on high, is perhaps not the wisest choice?

O.

[ippy]

I get to spend more time with my family than I usually do - this is amazing!

Why focus on imaginary people when I have real people here?

If you're hearing voices, seek medical help...

Seriously, if you can only 'find god' by depriving yourself of real-life, then how can you be sure you're not just inventing something to get through it?
 
I don't need to go looking for reasons not to believe, there's only one needed and I already have it - you've not given me enough evidence to think that what you're claiming is true.

To pick this particular moment, when a world-wide pandemic is killing tens of thousands of people, to suggest that actually there really is an all-powerful god that loves us looking down from on high, is perhaps not the wisest choice?

O.

Don't forget Outrider it also gives him more time to indoctrinate the next generation's head full of the nonsense in just the same fashion he was indoctrinated, it's another one of those how do you break the circle of irresponsible behaviour problems.

ippy.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You have ben told time and again by many people that they don't seek reasons not to believe but rather just don't believe = and you comtinually then put up a lie like the above, Why is that?

But what if the question is rather ''why do you believe God Free rather than God?'' isn't there a duty to engage?

It's all very well this ''I just don't believe in God'' but if that is really the position, why be on this message board at all other than it seeming like a place where God Frees can hang?

[Stranger]

But what if the question is rather ''why do you believe God Free rather than God?'' isn't there a duty to engage?

It's all very well this ''I just don't believe in God'' but if that is really the position, why be on this message board at all other than it seeming like a place where God Frees can hang?

It's evidence or reasoning for god(s)-free, not god-free. 

[Gordon]

But what if the question is rather ''why do you believe God Free rather than God?'' isn't there a duty to engage?

It's all very well this ''I just don't believe in God'' but if that is really the position, why be on this message board at all other than it seeming like a place where God Frees can hang?

Don't be silly, Vlad, since if this approach was sound you would have a ready answer to 'why do you believe leprechaun-free rather than leprechaun'.

Moreover I don't "just" have an absence of belief in a 'God' - my absence if belief is specifically because I can see no basis to take the notion of 'God' seriously because those proposing it cite only fallacious or incoherent justifications.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's evidence or reasoning for god(s)-free, not god-free. 

Obviously when I asked for sound reasons for naturalism that wasn't seen by you as sufficiently god (s) free.
I shall therefore open another thread for you to provide sound reasons for god (s) free. If you don't we'll know you are just shooting the shit as they say.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Don't be silly, Vlad, since if this approach was sound you would have a ready answer to 'why do you believe leprechaun-free rather than leprechaun'.

Moreover I don't "just" have an absence of belief in a 'God' - my absence if belief is specifically because I can see no basis to take the notion of 'God' seriously because those proposing it cite only fallacious or incoherent justifications.

Regarding your last paragraph I don't see any special skill in that particular direction.

With regards a ready answer to why I believe Leprechaun freehere it is.

Leprechauns are diminutive little men of Irish extraction dressed in green that are found at pots of Gold at rainbows.

They should therefore be detectable by the scientific method. Since the epicentre of leprechauns is Ireland and science has not found any evidence of such people then I'm afraid I don't believe them.

 

[Stranger]

Obviously when I asked for sound reasons for naturalism that wasn't seen by you as sufficiently god (s) free.
I shall therefore open another thread for you to provide sound reasons for god (s) free. If you don't we'll know you are just shooting the shit as they say.

I didn't say god(s)-free, I said evidence or reasoning for god(s)-free. That is, there is a lack of evidence or reasoning for any god(s) - not necessarily a lack of god(s) - just no reason to think that there are any.

[Gordon]

Regarding your last paragraph I don't see any special skill in that particular direction.

I suppose, given that there is an ample supply of theobollocks, it is quite easy to recognise.

With regards a ready answer to why I believe Leprechaun freehere it is.

Leprechauns are diminutive little men of Irish extraction dressed in green that are found at pots of Gold at rainbows.

They should therefore be detectable by the scientific method. Since the epicentre of leprechauns is Ireland and science has not found any evidence of such people then I'm afraid I don't believe them.

Superb - now try substituting 'God(s)' for 'leprechaun(s)' on the same basis you've just set out, and let me be the first to welcome you to atheism, Vlad.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Superb - now try substituting 'God(s)' for 'leprechaun(s)' on the same basis you've just set out, and let me be the first to welcome you to atheism, Vlad.

You can't...……….As any ful kno, because is not proposed as anything physical. He's also not known or defined by the colour of clothing and he doesn't hang in any particular place.

If mistaking something like a leprechaun for God is your reason for being an atheist...………………...

[Gordon]

You can't...……….As any ful kno, because is not proposed as anything physical. He's also not known or defined by the colour of clothing and he doesn't hang in any particular place.

If mistaking something like a leprechaun for God is your reason for being an atheist...………………...

Whoosh

[Roses]

You can't...……….As any ful kno, because is not proposed as anything physical. He's also not known or defined by the colour of clothing and he doesn't hang in any particular place.

If mistaking something like a leprechaun for God is your reason for being an atheist...………………...

A leprechaun has as much credibility as the Biblical god.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

A leprechaun has as much credibility as the Biblical god.

No, it doesn't.

[Roses]

No, it doesn't.

Oh yes it does.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Oh yes it does.

What do you propose a leprechaun is.

Look Gordon is obviously resorting to ridicule....the horses laugh fallacy and you are cheerfully going along with him.

[Roses]

What do you propose a leprechaun is.

Look Gordon is obviously resorting to ridicule....the horses laugh fallacy and you are cheerfully going along with him.

Your posts are open to ridicule as they make no sense.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Your posts are open to ridicule as they make no sense.

I put that down to your limited knowledge and understanding.

[Roses]

I put that down to your limited knowledge and understanding.

That appears to be true of you!

[Gordon]

What do you propose a leprechaun is.

Look Gordon is obviously resorting to ridicule....the horses laugh fallacy and you are cheerfully going along with him.

No wonder.

You ascribe physical characteristics (green clothing, living in Ireland etc) to something fictitious and then claim that since these characteristics haven't been detected by science then you don't believe in leprechauns. I then, albeit sarcastically, invited you to substitute 'God' for 'leprechauns' on the same basis and, predictably, as I said, whoosh.