Searching for GOD...

[Nearly Sane]

What are you talking about?

There's a player called Jesus plays for Manchester City, the football team.

[Roses]

There's a player called Jesus plays for Manchester City, the football team.

Poor bloke.

[Nearly Sane]

Poor bloke.

He's definitely not poor

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Belief can be very convincing even if there is no evidence to back it up. About 20 years ago I posted on a religious forum where a poster claimed to be Jesus on round two. He appeared to be very upset no one took him seriously, including the Christians. I don't think the poor guy was a WUM, he genuinely believed himself to be Jesus.

The evidence is in the new testament epistles. You may not accept it.

How is claiming to be Jesus Christian?

[Roses]

The evidence is in the new testament epistles. You may not accept it.

How is claiming to be Jesus Christian?

There is no evidence to support it being factual.

[Nearly Sane]

Belief can be very convincing even if there is no evidence to back it up. About 20 years ago I posted on a religious forum where a poster claimed to be Jesus on round two. He appeared to be very upset no one took him seriously, including the Christians. I don't think the poor guy was a WUM, he genuinely believed himself to be Jesus.

Surely belief is an indication being convinced, not the thing that convinces?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There is no evidence to support it being factual.

Historians seem satisfied that the epistles are genuine documents written to people who had the opportunity to cross examine witnesses. They even have the author, Paul of Tarsus.

Seems to me that your statement is based on a belief about what is possible and what isn't.

[Stranger]

Historians seem satisfied that the epistles are genuine documents written to people who had the opportunity to cross examine witnesses. They even have the author, Paul of Tarsus.

All that tells us is that there was some historical figure that believed this stuff, or wanted others to believe it. If it's the best attempt the almighty creator and ruler of the cosmos can do by way of communication and providing evidence, then it has a serious communication problem.

[Outrider]

Historians seem satisfied that the epistles are genuine documents written to people who had the opportunity to cross examine witnesses. They even have the author, Paul of Tarsus.

Seems to me that your statement is based on a belief about what is possible and what isn't.

This was the same Saul/Paul who had some sort of 'vision' episode on the road to Damascus, right?  These days, if someone has that sort of experience we tend to recommend medical intervention, not building up a cult of misogyny and homophobia around them.

O.

[SusanDoris]

I understand that Jesus was quite a common name 2,000 years ago. I do not know how comon it is in the Middle Est now.

[Roses]

Historians seem satisfied that the epistles are genuine documents written to people who had the opportunity to cross examine witnesses. They even have the author, Paul of Tarsus.

Seems to me that your statement is based on a belief about what is possible and what isn't.

Which historians? Much of what is written in the gospels is less than credible.

[SteveH]

Poor bloke.

It's a common name is Spanish-speaking countries, pronounced hayzoos, with the stress on the second syllable.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This was the same Saul/Paul who had some sort of 'vision' episode on the road to Damascus, right?  These days, if someone has that sort of experience we tend to recommend medical intervention, not building up a cult of misogyny and homophobia around them.

O.

Oh dear, An ''oi...... nutter!!'' arguer has got onto the tracks again.

[Outrider]

Oh dear, An ''oi...... nutter!!'' arguer has got onto the tracks again.

Am I wrong?  Would somebody reporting the sort of vision attributed to Saul on the Road to Damascus be anointed as a prophet, or reviewed by a competent medical specialist if he made the claim today?

How many people reporting flashing lights and disembodied voices end up having psychological problems or brain tumours vs the number that end up being channels for gods?

O.

[Roses]

Paul's literary diarrhoea gives the impression that all might not have been well in his top storey.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Which historians? Much of what is written in the gospels is less than credible.

Most of them. Historically not credible or not credible because things like that just don't happen.

[Roses]

Most of them. Historically not credible or not credible because things like that just don't happen.

Name the historians. Things like that don't happen in reality, for instance, people who are actually dead don't come back to life again.

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

There's a player called Jesus plays for Manchester City, the football team.

Indeed there is. Such a pity he's not the goalie though - "Jesus Saves!" would be a pretty nifty headline... 

[Nearly Sane]

NS,

Indeed there is. Such a pity he's not the goalie though - "Jesus Saves!" would be a pretty nifty headline...

The was a common banner about a variety of strikers in the 70s 'Jesus saves, but xyz nets the rebound'

[Dicky Underpants]

Name the historians. Things like that don't happen in reality, for instance, people who are actually dead don't come back to life again.

Most historians believe that most of the epistles are genuine. That's as far as it goes.
Paul claims that many people have seen the risen Christ, and that finally the risen  Christ appeared to him. Peter is one of the latter, but since Paul appears to have disagreed with Peter on a number of significant details, one should take such testimonies with a pinch of salt.
In any case, Paul really is not at all concerned with the historical Jesus, only in what he considers his death and resurrection signify.
So we come back to the original not very illuminating claim - most historians consider most of the epistles genuine. Doesn't get us very far.

[Roses]

What does the word 'genuine' mean in relation to the gospels? If it means factual, I would beg to differ as would many historians I suspect.

[ProfessorDavey]

Historians seem satisfied that the epistles are genuine documents written to people who had the opportunity to cross examine witnesses. They even have the author, Paul of Tarsus.

They are likely 'genuine' in so much as they are a statement of the beliefs of the author (likely Paul) - that doesn't mean that the claims they contain are in any way true and as Paul was not present when the purported events of Jesus' life took place then at best they are second hand assertions.

[Dicky Underpants]

What does the word 'genuine' mean in relation to the gospels? If it means factual, I would beg to differ as would many historians I suspect.

EPISTLES was the word originally used, and the word I'm talking about too. If you want to talk about the gospels, that's a different matter. Do pay attention. 'Genuine' as regards the EPISTLES means that most were written by the person who claims to have written them.
What historians have you read on these matters anyway?

[Dicky Underpants]

They are likely 'genuine' in so much as they are a statement of the beliefs of the author (likely Paul) - that doesn't mean that the claims they contain are in any way true and as Paul was not present when the purported events of Jesus' life took place then at best they are second hand assertions.

Absolutely. Totally concur with that.

[Gordon]

What does the word 'genuine' mean in relation to the gospels? If it means factual, I would beg to differ as would many historians I suspect.

It means that the provenance of the Epistles is, for the most part, understood and can be attributed. The Gospels are a different matter entirely.