Searching for GOD...

[ProfessorDavey]

You need to discern the obvious difference between the God depicted in the Christian bible and the Gods portrayed in the many other religious faiths.

If anything the christian god seems more obviously and overtly man-made than the gods portrayed in some other religions, specifically because the christian god is achingly anthropomorphic - a kind of super-human, just the kind of god you'd expect humans to come up with. At least some other religions have gods that seem much more universally linked to existence, to broader nature etc. Surely the most obvious test of a god (particularly linking to whether it is likely to be man made) would be whether it would remain relevant if humans did not exist. Without humans the christian god is irrelevant, so inextricably linked to people (and not just all people, but a tiny group of people in a particular place at a particular time).

Imagine if dolphins evolved sufficiently to be able to create gods - they'd likely create a dolphin-like god that is a kind of super-dolphin, that interacts pretty well exclusively with dolphins and has no interest in, nor relevance to, land, rather than sea. We'd dismiss this god as obviously a dolphin-made god. The christian god demonstrate exactly these characteristics, except being man-made rather than dolphin-made.

[torridon]

You clearly have not understood the profound message of God's love given to us in the Christian bible and practised by the many people who have followed this this teaching with the help of God's grace.

That 'profound message' would be the rose tinted version promoted by priests, a sanitised undemanding inoffensive god suitable for modern sensibilities that can be assimilated into parishioners' minds so long as they take home the highly selective passages picked out for sermons. A lot of atheists are such people who decided to actually read the Bible for themselves objectively without such selection bias and came to realise the all loving powder puff god beloved by priests is a gross misrepresentation of the biblical god. Concordances reveal far more references to god's wrath and vengeance than to god's loving tender mercies. You are just buying into a carefully crafted illusion fashioned by the church that ignores much of actual scripture.

[SusanDoris]

That 'profound message' would be the rose tinted version promoted by priests, a sanitised undemanding inoffensive god suitable for modern sensibilities that can be assimilated into parishioners' minds so long as they take home the highly selective passages picked out for sermons. A lot of atheists are such people who decided to actually read the Bible for themselves objectively without such selection bias and came to realise the all loving powder puff god beloved by priests is a gross misrepresentation of the biblical god. Concordances reveal far more references to god's wrath and vengeance than to god's loving tender mercies. You are just buying into an carefully crafted illusion fashioned by the church that ignores much of scripture.

Well said. Wouldn't it be nice to think that AB might actually see and inwardly hear, without those rose-tinted specs, what you have written ...

[Owlswing]

Well said. Wouldn't it be nice to think that AB might actually see and inwardly hear, without those rose-tinted specs, what you have written ...

I agree, very well said and I also agree, never to be taken notice of AB and the millions like him!

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

You clearly have not understood the profound message of God's love given to us in the Christian bible and practised by the many people who have followed this this teaching with the help of God's grace.

Two problems there:

First, you’ve been highly selective in choosing to isolate “God’s love” from this (supposed) god’s (supposed) other attributes set out just a clearly in the scriptures. The problem is compounded furthermore by there being no evidence at all of a loving god. Given the volume of terrible things that happen to innocent people, you could make a case with equal facility for there being an evil god too.

Second, whether I’ve “understood” a (supposedly) “profound message” tells you nothing at all about the truth or otherwise of the basic claim “god” itself. What you’re trying here is (yet another piece of) bad reasoning called the Courtier’s reply:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Courtier%27s_Reply

You could study every book ever written about leprechauns and their various habits for example and still be not one iota closer to having a good reason to think them to be real. Leprechaunology/theology doesn’t help in either case here – you need some foundational arguments in logic to demonstrate your premises before you concern yourself with the supposed characteristics of the assertions you’ve made.                   

[ippy]

I presume you have not studied in depth any scholarly works which compare the Christian bible to other religious faiths. 
So how can you possibly claim that they do not present any credible reasons to take the claims of Christian bible seriously?

Wouldn't scholarly works need to be based on established, evidence based, facts before they could be considered scholarly Alan?

Commiserations.

[Alan Burns]

That 'profound message' would be the rose tinted version promoted by priests, a sanitised undemanding inoffensive god suitable for modern sensibilities that can be assimilated into parishioners' minds so long as they take home the highly selective passages picked out for sermons. A lot of atheists are such people who decided to actually read the Bible for themselves objectively without such selection bias and came to realise the all loving powder puff god beloved by priests is a gross misrepresentation of the biblical god. Concordances reveal far more references to god's wrath and vengeance than to god's loving tender mercies. You are just buying into a carefully crafted illusion fashioned by the church that ignores much of actual scripture.

The sad truth is, Torri, that you cannot possibly experience the reality of God's love from the outside.
You cannot feel the inner peace and joy which emanates from the reality of knowing God's love.
You cannot discern the profound meaning and purpose in life which goes far beyond the evolutionary goal of survival.
Life is short - Do not wait another day.
Take down the barriers and let Jesus into your life.

[torridon]

The sad truth is, Torri, that you cannot possibly experience the reality of God's love from the outside.
You cannot feel the inner peace and joy which emanates from the reality of knowing God's love.
You cannot discern the profound meaning and purpose in life which goes far beyond the evolutionary goal of survival.
Life is short - Do not wait another day.
Take down the barriers and let Jesus into your life.

Tried that, nothing happened.

[Alan Burns]

Tried that, nothing happened.

It is not too late to have another go.
If at first you don't succeed ....

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

The sad truth is, Torri, that you cannot possibly experience the reality of God's love from the outside.

No, the (probably no so) sad truth is that you have no arguments to show that either “God” or his supposed love exist at all. Perhaps if you weren’t so dishonest and instead responded each time you commit a fallacy to justify your various claims and assertion you’d begin to understand why this is the case.

You cannot feel the inner peace and joy which emanates from the reality of knowing God's love.

You cannot make a cogent argent to indicate that that's ”the reality” at all. That’s your problem remember?

You cannot discern the profound meaning and purpose in life which goes far beyond the evolutionary goal of survival.

And you cannot show that such a “profound meaning and purpose in life” exists at all either. That’s another of your problems remember?

Life is short - Do not wait another day.

Wait for what?

Take down the barriers and let Jesus into your life.

And remove the blinkers and let Colin the leprechaun into yours.

See? We can both talk reason- and evidence-free bollocks when we want to can’t we. 

[Gordon]

The sad truth is, Torri, that you cannot possibly experience the reality of God's love from the outside.
You cannot feel the inner peace and joy which emanates from the reality of knowing God's love.
You cannot discern the profound meaning and purpose in life which goes far beyond the evolutionary goal of survival.
Life is short - Do not wait another day.
Take down the barriers and let Jesus into your life.

 I think I'd prefer to keep my critical faculties, such as they are, intact thank you very much.

[torridon]

It is not too late to have another go.
If at first you don't succeed ....

I tried that for the first twenty years of my life.  Nothing happened.  Sooner or later you have to stop banging your head on the wall.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

It is not too late to have another go.
If at first you don't succeed ....

Exactly! Well said! Can you really not appreciate the deep peace and sense of purpose I get from my belief in leprechauns? Are you actually blind to their profound and meaningful ways and doings as depicted in the relevant texts? Dammit man, keep trying - I'm sure that with luck and patience you'll finally realise the truth as I have.

Good luck!     

[Alan Burns]

AB,

Exactly! Well said! Can you really not appreciate the deep peace and sense of purpose I get from my belief in leprechauns? Are you actually blind to their profound and meaningful ways and doings as depicted in the relevant texts? Dammit man, keep trying - I'm sure that with luck and patience you'll finally realise the truth as I have.

Good luck!   

You stick with your Leprechauns.
I will stick with Jesus.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

You stick with your Leprechauns.
I will stick with Jesus.

Ah but the difference is that I don’t presume to proselytise for my belief with reason-free assertions, evasions of criticisms and condescending homilies and platitudes aimed at people who rightly conclude that neither of us provide good reasons to take our respective beliefs seriously.

You stop doing these things though and then – but only then – will we be even-stevens.       

Deal?

[ippy]

AB,

No, the (probably no so) sad truth is that you have no arguments to show that either “God” or his supposed love exist at all. Perhaps if you weren’t so dishonest and instead responded each time you commit a fallacy to justify your various claims and assertion you’d begin to understand why this is the case.

You cannot make a cogent argent to indicate that that's ”the reality” at all. That’s your problem remember?

And you cannot show that such a “profound meaning and purpose in life” exists at all either. That’s another of your problems remember?

Wait for what?

And remove the blinkers and let Colin the leprechaun into yours.

See? We can both talk reason- and evidence-free bollocks when we want to can’t we.

Colin?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Ipster,

Colin?

Well, according to the 1836 King Zog of Albania’s great revision of the ancient text of leprechaunology yes Colin indeed. Of course the various translations through the ages used other names in the local dialects – “Nigel”, “Cecil” etc.     

[ippy]

Ipster,

Well, according to the 1836 King Zog of Albania’s great revision of the ancient text of leprechaunology yes Colin indeed. Of course the various translations through the ages used other names in the local dialects – “Nigel”, “Cecil” etc.   

Among the few brain cells I still have left something is telling me there actually was a King Zog of somewhere, it might as well be Albania as anywhere else but then when the ball bearings inside my head settled into their places in the picture I began thinking, have you actually got any kind of evidence that could possibly support this very unlikely story/revelational type explanation of yours?

I have a nephew Colin, he lives and works in Cirencester, a glass blower by profession a sole trader and he's never, ever mentioned any of this to me?

Reggs, ippy.

[SusanDoris]

Among the few brain cells I still have left something is telling me there actually was a King Zog of somewhere, it might as well be Albania as anywhere else but then when the ball bearings inside my head settled into their places in the picture I began thinking, have you actually got any kind of evidence that could possibly support this very unlikely story/revelational type explanation of yours?

I have a nephew Colin, he lives and works in Cirencester, a glass blower by profession a sole trader and he's never, ever mentioned any of this to me?

Reggs, ippy.

And then of course, there's Colin Fir :)th, says she wistfully!!!!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Ipster,

Among the few brain cells I still have left something is telling me there actually was a King Zog of somewhere, it might as well be Albania as anywhere else…

There was indeed a King Zog of Albania:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zog_I_of_Albania

…but then when the ball bearings inside my head settled into their places in the picture I began thinking, have you actually got any kind of evidence that could possibly support this very unlikely story/revelational type explanation of yours?

Yes of course I have – I have sound logic.

Is there anything else I can help you with?

I have a nephew Colin, he lives and works in Cirencester, a glass blower by profession a sole trader and he's never, ever mentioned any of this to me?

Ah, only some of us are chosen for Colin’s beneficence I’m afraid. Still, you could keep trying – hopping backwards in small circles with a frozen chicken up your jumper every second Wednesday half-day closing may be a good place to start. After all, it worked for me!     

[ippy]

Hi Ipster,

There was indeed a King Zog of Albania:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zog_I_of_Albania

Yes of course I have – I have sound logic.

Is there anything else I can help you with?

Ah, only some of us are chosen for Colin’s beneficence I’m afraid. Still, you could keep trying – hopping backwards in small circles with a frozen chicken up your jumper every second Wednesday half-day closing may be a good place to start. After all, it worked for me!   

As we both live in Essex it might be best if we try to not clash when we're reporting back? My day's a Thursday, it clears me for the weekend.

Reggs,ippy.

[Alan Burns]

Blue, Ippy

I admit to being amazed at what you believe emerges from the physically determined reactions in your material brains.   

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

I admit to being amazed at what you believe emerges from the physically determined reactions in your material brains.   

That’s good. Admitting to your personal incredulity about that is an important first step.

The next step though that you’ve yet to grasp is to understand why your personal incredulity about something is not a valid argument for something else.

The good news however is that there are people here who can help you with that. We can walk you ever so gently and carefully along your fist tentative steps toward rhetorical reason and logic. Nothing too fancy to begin with you understand, just a slow stroll through the many fallacies you attempt to justify your faith beliefs. Why, once the first couple have sunk in before you know it I bet you’ll be falsifying the rest of ‘em all by yourself. You go for it Tiger!   

[ippy]

Blue, Ippy

I admit to being amazed at what you believe emerges from the physically determined reactions in your material brains.   

This post of yours Alan, seems to suggest there's some other type of brain, I've read about Asimov's positronic brain from his robot series?

As of yet still commiserations Alan, ippy.

[Stranger]

I admit to being amazed at what you believe emerges from the physically determined reactions in your material brains.   

Which speaks volumes about your own intellectual limitations (at east with regard to this subject).