Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

Are you absolutely incapable of doing "evil" all on your own?

Our God given gift of free will gives us the power to have knowledge of good and evil and to choose between the two.
It is evident that the powers of evil tempt us to choose evil.
We are all susceptible to this power.
And we have the freedom to repent when we recognise the evil we may have done.
In the end, it is those who come to love evil who will be barred from the kingdom of heaven.
Those who are able to repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour will be welcome into the kingdom.
When freed from the temptations of the source of evil, I am quite certain that I will never choose evil.

[torridon]

We certainly need the sacrament of reconciliation while we are living in this world of temptation.
In Heaven we will be free from Satan's power to tempt us to do evil.

So why doesn't God free us from Satan's power here ?  If he can do it in heaven then surely he can do it any place he pleases. The inescapable conclusion of this is that it is God's will to have Satan to lead us astray.  This is tacitly acknowledged in the Lord's Prayer where it is beseeched "lead us not into temptation".

[Alan Burns]

So why doesn't God free us from Satan's power here ?  If he can do it in heaven then surely he can do it any place he pleases. The inescapable conclusion of this is that it is God's will to have Satan to lead us astray.  This is tacitly acknowledged in the Lord's Prayer where it is beseeched "lead us not into temptation".

entities of free will have the choice to choose their own destiny.
Our world is not heaven.
It is the place where we can perceive good and evil.
It is the place where we are free to choose.

[Sebastian Toe]

It is evident that the powers of evil tempt us to choose evil.

Not evident at all.

What exactly are the "powers of evil" to which you refer?

[torridon]

entities of free will have the choice to choose their own destiny.
Our world is not heaven.
It is the place where we can perceive good and evil.
It is the place where we are free to choose.

Doesn't address the previous point, at all. I would not want to spend all my life obfuscating like this, it is better to be straightforward and honest in your thinking.

[Alan Burns]

Doesn't address the previous point, at all. I would not want to spend all my life obfuscating like this, it is better to be straightforward and honest in your thinking.

If God was to eliminate all evil, would we be able to recognise and appreciate what is good? Would we become more self centred if no one needed any help?

[Nearly Sane]

If God was to eliminate all evil, would we be able to recognise and appreciate what is good? Would we become more self centred if no one needed any help?

Dunno, but I would be willing to take the chance if it didn't mean children dying in pain. You, on the other hand, sing happy songs about that.

[Aruntraveller]

If God was to eliminate all evil, would we be able to recognise and appreciate what is good? Would we become more self centred if no one needed any help?

So evil is, in effect, a necessary evil?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So evil is, in effect, a necessary evil?

If evil is that which is against God's primary will then I cannot see which sense evil can be necessary.

[Nearly Sane]

If evil is that which is against God's primary will then I cannot see which sense evil can be necessary.

Take that up with Alan Burns who thinks it is.

[Bramble]

If evil is that which is against God's primary will then I cannot see which sense evil can be necessary.

Good and evil depend on each other in a similar way to up/down, hot/cold, in/out and so on. Maybe some grasp of this lay behind Aquinas' recognition that when humans talk of the divine analogues like God's goodness we have no idea whatsoever what we actually mean.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Good and evil depend on each other in a similar way to up/down, hot/cold, in/out and so on. Maybe some grasp of this lay behind Aquinas' recognition that when humans talk of the divine analogues like God's goodness we have no idea whatsoever what we actually mean.

Up and down, it seems to  me isn't even a good analogy to hot /cold let alone good/evil since there is an absolute zero.

In this respect absolute zero could be analogous to God's goodness.

[Bramble]

Up and down, it seems to  me isn't even a good analogy to hot /cold let alone good/evil since there is an absolute zero.

In this respect absolute zero could be analogous to God's goodness.

I do hope warm clothes are provided in heaven then.

[Dicky Underpants]

If God was to eliminate all evil, would we be able to recognise and appreciate what is good? Would we become more self centred if no one needed any help?

We are told that all evil will eventually be extinguished. The Book of Revelation also tells us that all memory of former things will be wiped out.
This brings humans right into the situation which you have just designated a problem: with no evil present and no memory of former things, how will the redeemed souls be able to appreciate what is good?

[torridon]

If God was to eliminate all evil, would we be able to recognise and appreciate what is good? Would we become more self centred if no one needed any help?

This makes zero zense.  Given that Satan is the great deceiver, then how are people supposed to know the difference between good and evil ?  By unleashing Satan on us, nobody can in fact know the difference between good and evil as we are effectively deceived.

[Gordon]

If God was to eliminate all evil, would we be able to recognise and appreciate what is good? Would we become more self centred if no one needed any help?

If that were true then there should be no more 'evil' (as in pain and suffering) than the mimimum that would be required to highlight the total amount of 'good'.

Yet there seems to be a surplus of 'evil' (as in an excess of pain and suffering), be it children dying of cancer or the predator/prey system.

[Alan Burns]

If that were true then there should be no more 'evil' (as in pain and suffering) than the mimimum that would be required to highlight the total amount of 'good'.

Yet there seems to be a surplus of 'evil' (as in an excess of pain and suffering), be it children dying of cancer or the predator/prey system.

Rest assured, Gordon - there will be no evil in Heaven

[Alan Burns]

This makes zero zense.  Given that Satan is the great deceiver, then how are people supposed to know the difference between good and evil ?  By unleashing Satan on us, nobody can in fact know the difference between good and evil as we are effectively deceived.

Can you not see that you have a God given conscience which can discern what is good and what is evil?

[Maeght]

Can you not see that you have a God given conscience which can discern what is good and what is evil?

No evidence that it is God given.

[torridon]

Can you not see that you have a God given conscience which can discern what is good and what is evil?

You're asking someone who doesn't buy the idea of Gods or Satan in the first place, so no, in the extent that this is God given. 

I feel an innate sense of right and wrong and am happy to accept that it is a product of my particular nature and nurture.  After all not everyone's idea of right and wrong is the same. Some people are happy to eat other animals for instance, whilst others find this morally repugnant.  Religious extremists carry out atrocities in the belief that they are doing God's work.

But if you believe in Satan, then you would have to accept that you have no way of knowing whether your sense of right and wrong aligns with God's as you have to accept by your own initial premise that you might have been misled by Satan.

[Sebastian Toe]

Can you not see that you have a God given conscience which can discern what is good and what is evil?

I would love to hear your opinion on sociopaths and why they behave as they do.

[ekim]

I would love to hear your opinion on sociopaths and why they behave as they do.

That's easy.  They are under the influence of Beelzebub.  It's in The Book.

[Alan Burns]

But if you believe in Satan, then you would have to accept that you have no way of knowing whether your sense of right and wrong aligns with God's as you have to accept by your own initial premise that you might have been misled by Satan.

In addition to my own conscience, I have the words of Jesus to help me discern what is good or evil and especially to help me see through the deceptions of the evil one.

[Sebastian Toe]

In addition to my own conscience, I have the words of Jesus to help me discern what is good or evil and especially to help me see through the deceptions of the evil one.

Or maybe the evil one had decieved you and your conscience into believing that.

[Gordon]

In addition to my own conscience, I have the words of Jesus to help me discern what is good or evil and especially to help me see through the deceptions of the evil one.

That sounds infantile: have you tried just thinking. After all, when it comes to navigating the 21st century you are far more qualified compared to anyone living around two millenia ago.