Searching for GOD...

[Alan Burns]

If that's the case, why is his guidebook to that 'nature of evil' so poor? Why is he depicted, at various points, as jealous, malicious, genocidal, deceptive and spiteful, painfully restrictive around haircuts, genital mutilation and dietary restrictions, but dangerously laissez-faire regarding rape and slavery? As a concept it's a little outlandish, but in the face of the evidence it just doesn't stack up.

Yes, it is easy to cherry pick (mainly out of context) from the numerous books of the bible in order to portray a very distorted view of God which totally contradicts the underlying message of God's love for all mankind and the promise of eternal salvation for those who freely accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, it is easy to cherry pick (mainly out of context) from the numerous books of the bible in order to portray a very distorted view of God which totally contradicts the underlying message of God's love for all mankind and the promise of eternal salvation for those who freely accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Who murders children by means of leukeamia

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

Yes, it is easy to cherry pick (mainly out of context) from the numerous books of the bible in order to portray a very distorted view of God which totally contradicts the underlying message of God's love for all mankind and the promise of eternal salvation for those who freely accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Just out of interest, how would you propose to square that “freely” with the conflict of interest of believing that there’s a prize of “eternal salvation” on offer if you do accept this supposed promise (and presumably something much less exciting coming your way if you don't)?

That's a long way from a "free" choice don't you think? 

[Outrider]

Yes, it is easy to cherry pick (mainly out of context) from the numerous books of the bible in order to portray a very distorted view of God which totally contradicts the underlying message of God's love for all mankind and the promise of eternal salvation for those who freely accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Yes, it's very easy to read the drastically out of keeping sequel to see where the editors tried to correct the horrendous implications of the depictions of the genocidal maniac from the first one (and the less said about Parts III-V the better, eh?). But at least they kept the homophobia and the misogyny. And still didn't think it worth condemning slavery or rape.

O.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Outy,

Yes, it's very easy to read the drastically out of keeping sequel to see where the editors tried to correct the horrendous implications of the depictions of the genocidal maniac from the first one (and the less said about Parts III-V the better, eh?). But at least they kept the homophobia and the misogyny. And still didn't think it worth condemning slavery or rape.

... or genocide.

[Maeght]

Yes, it is easy to cherry pick (mainly out of context) from the numerous books of the bible in order to portray a very distorted view of God which totally contradicts the underlying message of God's love for all mankind and the promise of eternal salvation for those who freely accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Love for all mankind, but he want's to be appreciated so won't make it clear to everyone that he exists by showing himself. You have to go searching. And if you don't freely accept Jesus then you don't get eternal salvation. Yet he loves everyone. How does that stack up?

[Dicky Underpants]

Yes, it is easy to cherry pick (mainly out of context) from the numerous books of the bible in order to portray a very distorted view of God which totally contradicts the underlying message of God's love for all mankind and the promise of eternal salvation for those who freely accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Never mind the various books of the Bible which are very variable in their images of God, in the New Testament too (The Jesus of Revelation, the 1st chapter of Romans, and even some words apparently spoken by the earthly Jesus are pretty horrendous too). The main question is The World and all its suffering, which a loving god is supposed to have created, and then foisted all its problems onto us, saying its all our fault through sin, with a little help from the Devil and Adam. I recognise the state of the world - I hope most of us do  - but the Devil and Adam are not within my purview.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Who murders children by means of leukeamia

Feel free to state your case.

[Nearly Sane]

Feel free to state your case.

It's the logical conclusion from Alan's idea of his god who created the universe, ergo created leukaemia, and can cure it since Alan believes miracle cures, so Alan's god could save children dying of leukaemia but chooses not to. Alan worships the cause of their deaths.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's the logical conclusion from Alan's idea of his god eho created the universe, ergo created leukeamia, and can cure it since Alan believes miracle cures, so Alan's god could save children dying of leukeamia but chooses not to. Alan worships the cause of their deaths.

Isn't that like saying the inventor of the internal combustion engine is responsible for murdering by deaths in car crashes?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Isn't that like saying the inventor of the internal combustion engine is responsible for murdering by deaths in car crashes?

No. It’s more like saying the inventor of the internal combustion engine could if he’d wanted to have produced a magic version that would have prevented cars from crashing, but chose not to.

[Nearly Sane]

Isn't that like saying the inventor of the internal combustion engine is responsible for murdering by deaths in car crashes?

First of all you've ignored the part about miracles. Secondly, what is the benefit of leukaemia?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

First of all you've ignored the part about miracles. Secondly, what is the benefit of leukaemia?

You've lost me here. What I'm interested in is you establishing what you mean by murder by leukemia.
Is it like say Colonel Mustard in the drawing room with the lead pipe ...or what?

[Nearly Sane]

You've lost me here. What I'm interested in is you establishing what you mean by murder by leukemia.
Is it like say Colonel Mustard in the drawing room with the lead pipe ...or what?

I've explained. I'm honestly not sure it could be made any simpler.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

You've lost me here. What I'm interested in is you establishing what you mean by murder by leukemia.

It’s simple enough. A (supposed) god who (supposedly) created everything also by the same “reasoning” therefore (supposedly) created childhood leukaemia. And this same (supposed) god also (supposedly) created the children who die from it.

Or, to put it another way, you worship a child murderer.   
 

Is it like say Colonel Mustard in the drawing room with the lead pipe ...or what?

It might as well be, yes. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I've explained. I'm honestly not sure it could be made any simpler.

No all I have to go on is the mention of miracles and God murdering by Luekemia so trying to piece these strange fragments together are you saying that it's the performing of miracles which makes God a murderer? How does that follow?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

It’s simple enough. A (supposed) god who (supposedly) created everything also by the same “reasoning” therefore (supposedly) created childhood leukaemia. And this same (supposed) god also (supposedly) created the children who die from it.

Or, to put it another way, you worship a child murderer.   
 
It might as well be, yes.

How is the death a murder?

[Outrider]

Isn't that like saying the inventor of the internal combustion engine is responsible for murdering by deaths in car crashes?

Only if you think that Messers Daimler and Benz could have fitted a device to the front of their cars which would have prevented them ever colliding with a pedestrian, but decided not to.

O.

[Outrider]

How is the death a murder?

God creates a world in which there are cancers. God, more importantly, creates this specific world in which Tommy gets a childhood cancer and dies from it - God chose that reality, God created it with full knowledge that it would kill Tommy with a childhood cancer (because God has omniscience).

God has the capacity (omnipotence) to intervene with a miracle and save Tommy, but chooses not to.

God instigated Tommy's death, knowingly and with forethough, and compounded the actions by declining to intervene when the opportunity to do so arose. Ergo, God murdered Tommy.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Only if you think that Messers Daimler and Benz could have fitted a device to the front of their cars which would have prevented them ever colliding with a pedestrian, but decided not to.

O.

I think Luekemia arises from mutations which are caused by chemical or physical processes involving the exchange of energy. I grant that God hasn't put a device to prevent chemical reactions. Perhaps you can think of the consequences of doing so.

Yes. Cars could be made 100% safe but I here precious little about instituting that.
Deaths from cancer are frequently classed as death by natural cause and not murder. A murder verdict might result from the deliberate introduction of carcinogen into a person by another human being but God? Isn't that treating God like "a big man"?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

God creates a world in which there are cancers. God, more importantly, creates this specific world in which Tommy gets a childhood cancer and dies from it - God chose that reality, God created it with full knowledge that it would kill Tommy with a childhood cancer (because God has omniscience).

God has the capacity (omnipotence) to intervene with a miracle and save Tommy, but chooses not to.

God instigated Tommy's death, knowingly and with forethough, and compounded the actions by declining to intervene when the opportunity to do so arose. Ergo, God murdered Tommy.

O.

According to your scheme then God instigates everybody's death, or put simply, death, or more simply a fixed term existence. But God also offers eternity to people and unbroken communion with himself. In other words
Life, death and resurrection.

[Outrider]

According to your scheme then God instigates everybody's death, or put simply, death, or more simply a fixed term existence.

Yes, but he singles particular ones out for childhood cancers. Singles out particular parents to lose their children to a wasting disease for no reason. Doles out disabiities and illnesses and injuries, leaves orphans and the devastated.

But God also offers eternity to people and unbroken communion with himself. In other words. Life, death and resurrection.

Why do we have to qualify? Why is the qualification period harder for some than others? In what way do 'we' get there when what we are is left returning to nature to maintain the cycle for the next set of unfortunates? Why is the offer so cryptic? Which of the dozens of offers is or are the correct ones? Is the punishment for being fooled by the incorrect offer an eternity of suffering, an eternity of disconnection? Why is the punishment eternal when the 'crime' is temporal?

O.

[Stranger]

According to your scheme then God instigates everybody's death, or put simply, death, or more simply a fixed term existence. But God also offers eternity to people and unbroken communion with himself. In other words
Life, death and resurrection.

More accurately, the Christian god metes out apparently random doses of unnecessary suffering and then plays a silly, infantile, and cruel game of hide-and-seek in order for people to find it, then requires ultimate narcissistic devotion in order to escape to a better existence after it's all over.

Such a god would be a vile monster.

[Alan Burns]

AB,

Just out of interest, how would you propose to square that “freely” with the conflict of interest of believing that there’s a prize of “eternal salvation” on offer if you do accept this supposed promise (and presumably something much less exciting coming your way if you don't)?

That's a long way from a "free" choice don't you think?

You have it totally wrong.
The offer of eternal salvation is not a "carrot and stick" scenario.
Accepting Jesus as your saviour is not reciting empty words in the hope of reward.
It is a life changing experience which involves seeking the good of others and loving the Lord your God with all your mind, heart and strength.
In doing this you will discover joy and fulfilment in your earthly lifetime.
Eternal salvation will be a bonus - not an expectation.

[Stranger]

You have it totally wrong.
The offer of eternal salvation is not a "carrot and stick" scenario.

Yet the rest of your answer exactly describes a carrot and stick scenario. Are you so blinded by your faith that you can't see that? As for "...loving the Lord your God with all your mind, heart and strength.", that is a vile, narcissistic demand.

And that's not to mention the silly and cruel game of hide-and-seek that your god (if it exists) is playing for people to even accept its existence, let alone carrot and stick choice you then have to make if you do accept its existence and message.

And all that then leads us to the basic problem with the concept of 'free will' that have been much discussed already.

Absurdity piled on top of absurdity. It would be hilarious if so many people weren't taken in by it.