Searching for GOD...

[jeremyp]

The evidence is there in abundance for all to see.

Where?

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. John 9:41

How can I be guilty of sin when there is no god?

[Maeght]

It is quite obvious to me that you, along with other recent responders to my post, have a consciously chosen goal to seek reasons to dismiss any evidence for the existence of God.  And it is also obvious that you are employing your god given gift of free will to think up these reasons in spite of your continual denial that you have been given such freedom.

The evidence is there in abundance for all to see.

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. John 9:41

Of course you think that but that doesn't mean you are correct.

You keep making claims about evidence etc, they are addressed, and you never respond to them other than repeating the claims.

How about actually presenting evidence and engaging with the responses?

[Outrider]

It is quite obvious to me that you, along with other recent responders to my post, have a consciously chosen goal to seek reasons to dismiss any evidence for the existence of God.

It's quite obvious to the rest of us that you appear fundamentally incapable of actually addressing any of the points raised to you, about the logical implausibility of your claims and the logical fallacies that riddle your attempts to justify your point.

And it is also obvious that you are employing your god given gift of free will to think up these reasons in spite of your continual denial that you have been given such freedom.

That which you continue to assert without despite the evidence, we can continue to dismiss on the same basis.

The evidence is there in abundance for all to see.

Evidently not, or everyone would agree with you. The arrogance of 'you're just not special enough to see it' is particularly nauseating.

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. John 9:41

"Fool of a Took!" - Gandalf, The Fellowship of the Ring.

O.

[Stranger]

It is quite obvious to me that you, along with other recent responders to my post, have a consciously chosen goal to seek reasons to dismiss any evidence for the existence of God.

Unfortunately many things you regard as "quite obvious" are obviously wrong when one applies some logic and critical thinking to it.

And it is also obvious that you are employing your god given gift of free will to think up these reasons in spite of your continual denial that you have been given such freedom.

The evidence is there in abundance for all to see.

And there you go again! You keep on repeating this but, despite being asked multiple times, you have never once been able to justify it.

It's an utterly absurd claim. In order to show your version of 'free will' one would need to literally rewind time to a choice that you made and demonstrate that you could have done differently. But even that wouldn't be enough. You'd then have to show that the difference wasn't just random.

Nothing anybody can possibly type on here can be evidence for 'free will' as you have defined it.

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. John 9:41

If you believe this, perhaps you shouldn't continue to bear false witness about evidence.

[Alan Burns]

How about actually presenting evidence and engaging with the responses?

The evidence lies with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You are free to choose whether to accept it and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

Or you are free to seek reasons to reject it.

The choice is your to make. 

The choice is not determined by whatever emerges from uncontrollable material reactions - it is determined by you.

[Stranger]

The evidence lies with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

A fantastical story in an old book is next to worthless as evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not extraordinarily bad evidence.

You are free to choose whether to accept it and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

Not really. I can't just choose to be convinced by something that is utterly unconvincing.

Or you are free to seek reasons to reject it.

No need to seek. The evidence you've offered is pathetic and rendered even less convincing by your dishonesty and continued refusal to engage with rational arguments.

The choice is your to make.

No. See above.

The choice is not determined by whatever emerges from uncontrollable material reactions - it is determined by you.

Nonsensical and dishonest misrepresentation.   

[Outrider]

The evidence lies with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That widely not accepted claim of magic...

You are free to choose whether to accept it and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

Or you are free to seek reasons to reject it.

The choice is your to make.

That's what you're trying to establish (free will), you can't cite it as a validation of your argument in favour of it.

The choice is not determined by whatever emerges from uncontrollable material reactions - it is determined by you.

But I emerged from uncontrollable (by me) material reactions. As did all of my ancestors, all the way back.

O.

[jeremyp]

The evidence lies with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

A couple of stories in the Bible are not really evidence. They could have been made up.

You will need to do better than that if you want to convince me that a god exists.

[Maeght]

The evidence lies with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You are free to choose whether to accept it and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

Or you are free to seek reasons to reject it.

The choice is your to make. 

The choice is not determined by whatever emerges from uncontrollable material reactions - it is determined by you.

You need to resent that actual evidence - especially when it comes to the resurrection. I'm not seeking to reject it but am not convinced. I have investigated the history of the Bible etc - have you beyond what you have been told by your Church?

Stop with the nonsense of trying to slip a reference to uncontrolled material reactions into every post and try to address the points about the evidence that you are claiming exists.

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

It is quite obvious to me that you, along with other recent responders to my post, have a consciously chosen goal to seek reasons to dismiss any evidence for the existence of God.

Then, as so often, you’re wrong about that too. My only “chosen goal” is not to accept claims that cannot be justified. That’s your goal too by the way – it’s why you don’t accept at face value my claim “leprechauns” either. 
 

And it is also obvious that you are employing your god given gift of free will to think up these reasons in spite of your continual denial that you have been given such freedom.

My “denial that I have been given such freedom” rests simply on your inability to justify that claim. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? 

The evidence is there in abundance for all to see.

Then why not finally produce some of it?

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. John 9:41

"According to the map, we've only gone 4 inches." —Jeff Daniels as Harry Dunne in Dumb and Dumber (1994)

[bluehillside Retd.]

AB,

The evidence lies with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That’s not evidence, except that is for evidence that the story exists at all.

You are free to choose whether to accept it and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

Yep. Absent any good reason to accept it though, why would any thinking person do that?

Or you are free to seek reasons to reject it.

Yes – the reason in this case is that neither you anyone else here has so far justified it.

The choice is your to make.

As it is for you about my equally unjustified truth claim “leprechauns”.

So? 

The choice is not determined by whatever emerges from uncontrollable material reactions - it is determined by you.

“You” are “uncontrollable material reactions”. Try to understand why this is.

[Sriram]

Sometimes, when you believe in something your mind opens up and then you are able to see the evidence....

[torridon]

The evidence lies with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You are free to choose whether to accept it and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

Or you are free to seek reasons to reject it.

The choice is your to make. 

The choice is not determined by whatever emerges from uncontrollable material reactions - it is determined by you.

Likewise other evidence is found in the divine teachings revealed to the Prophet Muhammad in the Qur'an.  Have you accepted it, or did you seek reasons to reject it ?

[Stranger]

Sometimes, when you believe in something your mind opens up and then you are able to see the evidence....

Open your mind too much and your brain falls out.

[Maeght]

Sometimes, when you believe in something your mind opens up and then you are able to see the evidence....

....... that isn't actually there.

[Nearly Sane]

Sometimes, when you believe in something your mind opens up and then you are able to see the evidence....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[jeremyp]

Sometimes, when you believe in something your mind opens up and then you are able to see the evidence....

So you believe Alan is right? Jesus rose from the dead to save us from our sins.

For some reason I thought you were Hindu rather than Christian.

[ProfessorDavey]

So you believe Alan is right? Jesus rose from the dead to save us from our sins.

For some reason I thought you were Hindu rather than Christian.

Weird how with very few exceptions those that believe in religious claims always believe the ones they were brought up to believe. Surely if a religious claim is compelling enough you wouldn't have to have been brought up to believe it to ... err ... believe it.

[Sriram]

Jesus, Allah, Vishnu are just images that are culture based. They are like differently shaped computer icons that we click on. What happens after we click is the same for everyone. Spiritual reality is common....religions are different. Different paths to the same destination.

[jeremyp]

Weird how with very few exceptions those that believe in religious claims always believe the ones they were brought up to believe.

I could be mischievous and say it's not weird at all. In fact, in my world view - which doesn't have a god in it - it is to be expected. But I know what you mean.

Surely if a religious claim is compelling enough you wouldn't have to have been brought up to believe it to ... err ... believe it.

That may be why I thought Sriram was Hindu, because, coming from India, that's the religion he is most likely to be afflicted with.

Of course, he could be Hindu but just touting the "open up your mind to see "truths" not accessible to the materialist" trope. If that's the case, I'd like to see his explanation of how Alan's "truth" is completely different to his "truth". I do have an explanation, but I don't think either of them will like it.

[jeremyp]

Jesus, Allah, Vishnu are just images that are culture based. They are like differently shaped computer icons that we click on. What happens after we click is the same for everyone. Spiritual reality is common....religions are different. Different paths to the same destination.

What is the destination?

[Outrider]

Sometimes, when you believe in something your mind opens up and then you are able to see the evidence....

Sometimes, if you eat enough mushrooms, you can see the unicorns. Like the unicorns, though, sometimes that evidence you can see isn't really there.

O.

[ProfessorDavey]

I could be mischievous and say it's not weird at all.

I was being sarcastic.

It is, of course, not weird at all. The various religious claims are so unbelievable that it is hardly surprising that were you to come to them as an adult you will laugh them away as fanciful. Only if you are taught to believe them from the cradle and have them as part of your cultural heritage do they gain any traction.

That, of course, doesn't apply to non-belief as there seems to be no requirement to have been brought up in a non religious manner to retain that non belief as an adult. There are plenty of people (often as many as 50% in the UK at least) brought up religious who reject that religion and become non believers as adults. But being brought up not believing is pretty well a guarantee that you will be non religious as an adult.

[Stranger]

Jesus, Allah, Vishnu are just images that are culture based. They are like differently shaped computer icons that we click on. What happens after we click is the same for everyone. Spiritual reality is common....religions are different. Different paths to the same destination.

Yet another rather trite and absurd assertion. Yes, of course, we can ignore the fact that the claims are different and contradictory, and people have fought a died because of those differences, but they're all the same really.   

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Jesus, Allah, Vishnu are just images that are culture based. They are like differently shaped computer icons that we click on. What happens after we click is the same for everyone. Spiritual reality is common....religions are different. Different paths to the same destination.

Even though those "destinations" so often turn out to be both wildly different from each other and mutually contradictory to boot?

In any case though, by all means finally have a go at justifying your claim "spiritual reality" so as to distinguish it from wishful thinking. Good luck with that.