Author Topic: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!  (Read 40037 times)

Shaker

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2015, 01:53:41 PM »
What I don't get is that Biblical literalists will claim the deity created everything, yet blame humans when things go wrong! ::)
It's all part of the endless parade of excuses, dodges, ducks, dives, bobs and weaves that some theists put up when faced with sceptical challenge to their beliefs.

Theists of any more or less traditional sort are committed to a belief in a god with certain powers. People long ago worked out that the strict and literal meaning of the word omnipotent is 'capable of doing absolutely anything' and that leads very quickly to logical impossibilities (the ability to create square circles, etc.) so the word had to be dialled back to mean 'with great though not unlimited power; capable of doing everything logically possible.' Therefore for theists their god is able to create a universe out of nothing and create various miracles, and so forth.

What's immediately noticeable is that all these alleged events are buried way, way, way back in the dim and distant past, buried in arcane documents from obscure corners of the very ancient world in superstitious and credulous times. Never right here, right now, today. Alan Burns boldly alleges that miracles are happening here and now in the world of 2015 but, of course, never provides a scrap of evidence for a single one.

The point being made here is that a god powerful enough to speak a cosmos into being suddenly loses its powers even with something which to it (though not to us) would be vastly more mundane - preventing pain, misery, fear and suffering, for example. The god who could bring forth a universe 13.7 billion of our Earth years ago can't, it seems, prevent famine or earthquake or genocide. When this is pointed out, theists typically go into full-on special pleading mode with every kind of excuse: people are responsible for not feeding the hungry is the one wheeled out most often. Well, with a god of the omnimax sort this doesn't matter: such a deity wants to prevent suffering, knows how to prevent and could prevent it, but doesn't. I, for example, want to prevent suffering but don't always know how to, certainly not on a planet-wide scale ... which, incidentally, backs up Dan Barker's famous statement that most people in most ways in most places most of the time are nicer than Jesus and better than God.

It really is a highly distasteful display of special pleading, excuse rather than explanation, rationalisation rather than rationality, a woeful parade of ad hoccery, largely it would seem made up on the spot, intended to shore up god-belief at absolutely any price rather than face the obvious.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 02:01:56 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Sassy

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2015, 02:49:12 PM »
Sass, how do you know sickness isn't the will of the deity?

ffs, 


Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


King James Bible
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.]

It isn't Gods will for man to have sickness or suffer...

We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2015, 02:51:16 PM »
If you believe that garbage to be true, you will believe anything! :o


The point was not what I believe. The point is that there are claims amputees are getting new limbs and the REAL argument is not about whether to believe it or not BUT CAN IT BE PROVED.

No. That's all - just no.

You haven't looked and you certainly won't take the time to research the truth. So you don't get to give that answer.. unless you want everyone to know how closed minded your ignorance has lead you to become?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Shaker

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2015, 02:54:50 PM »
Quote
You haven't looked
If amputees really were getting new limbs - real ones, I mean: flesh and blood and vein and sinew limbs, not prostheses - I wouldn't have to look, would I? None of us would. It would be splashed across every newspaper, every magazine, would take up every news bulletin and create umpteen documentaries the world over.

Quote
and you certainly won't take the time to research the truth.
Because it's nonsense. Utter humungous fulminating festering horseshit. Unless you can prove otherwise?

Quote
So you don't get to give that answer
Yes I do. I just did. Prove your claims. That would be the simplest method of showing me to be wrong - prove your claims.

That's all.

Quote
unless you want everyone to know how closed minded your ignorance has lead you to become?
My mind, thank goodness, is closed to horseshit.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 06:19:30 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

floo

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2015, 03:00:01 PM »
Sass, how do you know sickness isn't the will of the deity?

ffs, 


Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


King James Bible
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.]

It isn't Gods will for man to have sickness or suffer...

Well the not so good book tells porkies! The deity seems to dine out on suffering humanity if the deeds attributed to it are factual!  >:(

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2015, 05:56:19 PM »
Sass, how do you know sickness isn't the will of the deity?

ffs, 


Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


King James Bible
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.]

It isn't Gods will for man to have sickness or suffer...

Well the not so good book tells porkies! The deity seems to dine out on suffering humanity if the deeds attributed to it are factual!  >:(

Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2015, 06:15:43 PM »
Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!
At least Floo does her own writing - all Sass ever does is copy and paste vast swathes of the Bible and considers that a reply to anything and everything ::)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2015, 06:18:10 PM »
Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!
At least Floo does her own writing - all Sass ever does is copy and paste vast swathes of the Bible and considers that a reply to anything and ev

Floo, writng?  Pull the other one.  It's a series of one-liners, and always the same old...
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Leonard James

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2015, 07:31:07 PM »
Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!
At least Floo does her own writing - all Sass ever does is copy and paste vast swathes of the Bible and considers that a reply to anything and ev

Floo, writng?  Pull the other one.  It's a series of one-liners, and always the same old...

Well, quoting the Bible is always the same old, but it's just easier to copy whole lumps of it.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2015, 07:34:24 PM »
Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!
At least Floo does her own writing - all Sass ever does is copy and paste vast swathes of the Bible and considers that a reply to anything and ev

Floo, writng?  Pull the other one.  It's a series of one-liners, and always the same old...

Well, quoting the Bible is always the same old, but it's just easier to copy whole lumps of it.

Are you saying that's what I do?  Please quote some examples.. It is a necessary part of defending one's beliefs to quote parts of the Bible that is under scrutiny:  but "whole lumps"?  No.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Leonard James

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2015, 08:01:51 PM »
Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!
At least Floo does her own writing - all Sass ever does is copy and paste vast swathes of the Bible and considers that a reply to anything and ev

Floo, writng?  Pull the other one.  It's a series of one-liners, and always the same old...

Well, quoting the Bible is always the same old, but it's just easier to copy whole lumps of it.

Are you saying that's what I do?  Please quote some examples.. It is a necessary part of defending one's beliefs to quote parts of the Bible that is under scrutiny:  but "whole lumps"?  No.

We are talking about Sass, BA. Sorry to disappoint you!  :)

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2015, 08:04:40 PM »
Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!
At least Floo does her own writing - all Sass ever does is copy and paste vast swathes of the Bible and considers that a reply to anything and ev

Floo, writng?  Pull the other one.  It's a series of one-liners, and always the same old...

Well, quoting the Bible is always the same old, but it's just easier to copy whole lumps of it.

Are you saying that's what I do?  Please quote some examples.. It is a necessary part of defending one's beliefs to quote parts of the Bible that is under scrutiny:  but "whole lumps"?  No.

We are talking about Sass, BA. Sorry to disappoint you!  :)

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Leonard James

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2015, 08:07:18 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2015, 08:09:02 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

"Balance" is not a word I usually associate with the atheists on here!    :)
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Leonard James

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2015, 08:16:25 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

"Balance" is not a word I usually associate with the atheists on here!    :)

That's understandable, given your warped view of us.  :D

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2015, 08:19:37 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

"Balance" is not a word I usually associate with the atheists on here!    :)

That's understandable, given your warped view of us.  :D

Oh dear:  you find it hard to face the honest truth, don't you?
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Leonard James

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2015, 08:20:49 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

"Balance" is not a word I usually associate with the atheists on here!    :)

That's understandable, given your warped view of us.  :D

Oh dear:  you find it hard to face the honest truth, don't you?

No , I love it! When are you going to present some?

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2015, 08:22:24 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

"Balance" is not a word I usually associate with the atheists on here!    :)

That's understandable, given your warped view of us.  :D

Oh dear:  you find it hard to face the honest truth, don't you?

No , I love it! When are you going to present some?

I have been, for a long time now.  Sadly, you don't/won't recognise it.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Leonard James

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2015, 08:24:17 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

"Balance" is not a word I usually associate with the atheists on here!    :)

That's understandable, given your warped view of us.  :D

Oh dear:  you find it hard to face the honest truth, don't you?

No , I love it! When are you going to present some?

I have been, for a long time now.  Sadly, you don't/won't recognise it.

We'll have to stop this, Bashers, or we'll get another thread locked. Sleep well!

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2015, 08:26:05 PM »

Well, nobody's compelled to read them;  so what's the problem?

No problem, dearie, just keeping the balance in our favour.  :)

"Balance" is not a word I usually associate with the atheists on here!    :)

That's understandable, given your warped view of us.  :D

Oh dear:  you find it hard to face the honest truth, don't you?

No , I love it! When are you going to present some?

I have been, for a long time now.  Sadly, you don't/won't recognise it.

We'll have to stop this, Bashers, or we'll get another thread locked. Sleep well!

I agree.  It seems teacher is watching us.  Have a good night.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2015, 08:42:03 PM »
What I don't get is that Biblical literalists will claim the deity created everything, yet blame humans when things go wrong! ::)
It's all part of the endless parade of excuses, dodges, ducks, dives, bobs and weaves that some theists put up when faced with sceptical challenge to their beliefs.

The biggest dodge of all on this forum is philosophical materialists denying that's what they are.

Sorry to piss on your bonfire.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2015, 12:14:04 AM »
What I don't get is that Biblical literalists will claim the deity created everything, yet blame humans when things go wrong! ::)
It's all part of the endless parade of excuses, dodges, ducks, dives, bobs and weaves that some theists put up when faced with sceptical challenge to their beliefs.

The biggest dodge of all on this forum is philosophical materialists denying that's what they are.

Sorry to piss on your bonfire.
Dang it!
My VB card doesn't have PM on it this week, I'm screwed!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

Sassy

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2015, 12:31:16 AM »
Quote
You haven't looked
If amputees really were getting new limbs - real ones, I mean: flesh and blood and vein and sinew limbs, not prostheses - I wouldn't have to look, would I? None of us would. It would be splashed across every newspaper, every magazine, would take up every news bulletin and create umpteen documentaries the world over.

Of course you would have to look.
Cast not thy pearls before the swine...

Quote
Quote
and you certainly won't take the time to research the truth.
Because it's nonsense. Utter humungous fulminating festering horseshit. Unless you can prove otherwise?

AS I said... pearls and swine.

Quote
Quote
So you don't get to give that answer
Yes I do. I just did. Prove your claims. That would be the simplest method of showing me to be wrong - prove your claims.

Go look for it, instead of asking for evidence and expecting everyone else to do your work for you. Go look and stop making pathetic excuses. How old are you? Because right now you are worse than a rebellious teenager.
If you want proof look of it instead of wanting others to do it for you.
But your too lazy and far too closed minded to actually really want evidence enough to go seek it.,..
Quote
That's all.

Quote
unless you want everyone to know how closed minded your ignorance has lead you to become?
My mind, thank goodness, is closed to horseshit.

Your mind is so closed you wouldn't know horse shit if it walked up and introduced itself...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2015, 12:33:43 AM »
Sass, how do you know sickness isn't the will of the deity?

ffs, 


Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


King James Bible
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.]

It isn't Gods will for man to have sickness or suffer...

Well the not so good book tells porkies! The deity seems to dine out on suffering humanity if the deeds attributed to it are factual!  >:(
That is the problem with your thinking... It lacks the ability to fathom authority. According to your thinking every judge who gave someone the death sentence is evil and murderer.
Grow up... God only punishes evil when necessary.
Has you understood ANYTHING about the bible or MANKIND you would know better than make stupid remarks...
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: Maybe YOU should take the test.... keep the faith!
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2015, 12:34:32 AM »
Sass, how do you know sickness isn't the will of the deity?

ffs, 


Acts 10:38King James Version (KJV)

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


King James Bible
Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.]

It isn't Gods will for man to have sickness or suffer...

Well the not so good book tells porkies! The deity seems to dine out on suffering humanity if the deeds attributed to it are factual!  >:(

Can't you come up with some original comment?  All you do is trot out the same old, same old!

She is stuck in a time warp of ground hog day when it comes to religion....
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."