Satan is having an easy time of it!

[jeremyp]

Dear ippy,

Course not, simply saying religion has their stories which they cling to and scientists have their stories which they cling to, we are story telling apes, but I see no difference, we all want our way to be the truth.

Gonnagle.

The difference is that the scientific story is backed by evidence.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jeremyp,

I will leave you to that thought, the scientists want to think their story is true, but another scientist will come along to say bunkum, if you think we have all the answers, good luck!!

Gonnagle.

[BashfulAnthony]

Far better to be a more evolved ape than created in the image of the unpleasant deity!

It has yet to be established that you have evolved!   

[trippymonkey]

Glad you agree it IS an unpleasant deity, then !!!

[BashfulAnthony]

Glad you agree it IS an unpleasant deity, then !!!

As I have said, umpteen times, the OT God is unpleasant.  But since He is a total mis-interpretation of reality, it is irrelevant.

[trippymonkey]

So the NT should have NO connections at all with the OT then?

[jeremyp]

the scientists want to think their story is true, but another scientist will come along to say bunkum,

And scientists are fortunate indeed that it is possible to tell which of two conflicting scientific ideas is bunkum.  They just have to check both stories against reality.  The one that agrees with it is not bunkum.

if you think we have all the answers, good luck!!

I don't think anybody suggests that we do.  Who did you have in mind?

[BashfulAnthony]

So the NT should have NO connections at all with the OT then?

The New Testament stands on its own.  The Old Testament is the religion of Judaism.

[Shaker]

So the NT should have NO connections at all with the OT then?

The New Testament stands on its own.  The Old Testament is the religion of Judaism.

That's effectively saying that Judaism as a religion, and therefore religious Jews, have a nasty and unpleasant God, according to you.

Is this what you're saying and the message you wish to convey? Or have I missed something?

[BashfulAnthony]

So the NT should have NO connections at all with the OT then?

The New Testament stands on its own.  The Old Testament is the religion of Judaism.

That's effectively saying that Judaism as a religion, and therefore religious Jews, have a nasty and unpleasant God, according to you.

Is this what you're saying and the message you wish to convey? Or have I missed something?

It's the business of those believing in Judaism to explain what they believe, and why.  Though I think it would be interesting to know how they explain the OT God's killing of between 2 and 26 million people  -  according to the figure you accept  -  and the explicit claim of God that: "Vengeance is mine: a belief at total variance with the Christian ideal of "love thy neighbour."   You may be aware that I have asked this question frequently on here, to be met, mostly from Christians it must be said, with nothing but waffle.

[Shaker]

You may be aware that I have asked this question frequently on here, to be met, from Christians it must be said, with nothing but waffle.

Absolutely know that feeling inside out on a daily basis.

[Brownie]

Doesn't it get a bit boring after a while floo?  I used to look on one or two a few years ago and it seemed to me that everyone said the same things and there wasn't much in the way of discussion.

[trippymonkey]

Just ONE question...

Was Jesus A Jew or a Christian?

[floo]

Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. That religion was created well after he was dead. I reckon like the Jews of his time he believed the stories in the OT to be true. The NT deity is no nicer than the OT one, imo!

[Leonard James]

Doesn't it get a bit boring after a while floo?  I used to look on one or two a few years ago and it seemed to me that everyone said the same things and there wasn't much in the way of discussion.

Absolutely correct. We simply go round and round in circles.

[Rhiannon]

So the NT should have NO connections at all with the OT then?

The New Testament stands on its own.  The Old Testament is the religion of Judaism.

What about Jesus' own words in Matt 5:17-20?

I take your point but explicitly Jesus does not do away with the OT; rather he embraces it, particularly the Law. I think that rather than seeing the OT as purely Judaic it is more accurate to see the NT as the result of a progression in thought from old ideas (such as the erroneous belief that God kills as punishment) to the new - the unconditional love of Christ.

If you discount the OT you then throw out the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Job - all speak to us down the centuries and are worth engaging with even as non-believers. Why ignore such richness of writing on the human condition and how we relate to God?

[floo]

Yes we do go round in circles that is true. It is highly unlikely anyone poster is going to change their minds on the topic of religion because of something said on a forum. I still post on forums as displacement activity.

The one thing I have learned the hard way about Cyberland, is never to trust anyone you have only met on the NET, and not face to face. I thought I had learned my lesson a few years ago when I tripped up BIG TIME. However there is no fool like an old fool, and I discovered once again I have been taken for a ride by someone, but fortunately this time there is no loss to my bank balance!

[floo]

Whilst meeting someone face to face is no guarantee, at least you have some idea from the body language what they are like. With only one exception, the people I have met in person, whom I first became acquainted with on line, have been absolutely NOTHING like the way portrayed themselves on the INTERNET! I was shocked when I discovered how unpleasant some were.

[Rhiannon]

I think I can be more authentically 'me' on-line. IRL I'd be too shy or too driven by convention to say the things that I do here.

[floo]

Rose how many people have you met in person whom you first met on line?

[BashfulAnthony]

So the NT should have NO connections at all with the OT then?

The New Testament stands on its own.  The Old Testament is the religion of Judaism.

What about Jesus' own words in Matt 5:17-20?

I take your point but explicitly Jesus does not do away with the OT; rather he embraces it, particularly the Law. I think that rather than seeing the OT as purely Judaic it is more accurate to see the NT as the result of a progression in thought from old ideas (such as the erroneous belief that God kills as punishment) to the new - the unconditional love of Christ.

If you discount the OT you then throw out the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Job - all speak to us down the centuries and are worth engaging with even as non-believers. Why ignore such richness of writing on the human condition and how we relate to God?

The words you quote from Matthew are particular to him, and it needs to be understood that Matthew was the Jewish writer, writing for a Jewish audience. He was concerned in presenting Jesus as a "good" Jew, and not a divisive teacher.   These claims are not a feature of other Gospel writings.  If we are to take the exhortation literally, then today Christians should be involved in animal sacrifices plus all the other numerous rituals including ceremonial washings etc etc, as recorded in books like Leviticus.  Jesus said, "You have heard it said in times of old,"  or, "I bring you new wine for old."   It is quite clear that Jesus was introducing a new and up-dated teaching. I am with Marcion who used the passage to justify a total separation between the religion that Jesus espoused and that of the Hebrew Scriptures.

I readily accept that there is much good teaching in Proverbs, the Psalms and Ecclesiastes, but they are not dependent on a belief in Judaism.

[Shaker]

Really?

People are normally much more reserved in real life.

I should think it is almost impossible to portray yourself on the Internet in the way you do in real life.
How you see yourself isn't the way others see you in real life.

How I express my ideas on here isn't the same as real life, that isn't because I am deceiving anyone but because in real life you don't get the same chance to express yourself uninterrupted etc, in a way body language " gets in the way"

Shyness doesn't apply here in quite the same way,also there is no criticism of physical appearance etc.

Sometimes people can feel awkward in real life which causes them to say things in a way that is less that ideal.  You can edit a post, but not first impressions.

It would be interesting to meet some of you in real life because I expect we are all different to how people imagine us.

🌹

I feel an R&E meet-up coming on

[ad_orientem]

So the NT should have NO connections at all with the OT then?

The New Testament stands on its own.  The Old Testament is the religion of Judaism.

That's effectively saying that Judaism as a religion, and therefore religious Jews, have a nasty and unpleasant God, according to you.

Is this what you're saying and the message you wish to convey? Or have I missed something?

It's the business of those believing in Judaism to explain what they believe, and why.  Though I think it would be interesting to know how they explain the OT God's killing of between 2 and 26 million people  -  according to the figure you accept  -  and the explicit claim of God that: "Vengeance is mine: a belief at total variance with the Christian ideal of "love thy neighbour."   You may be aware that I have asked this question frequently on here, to be met, mostly from Christians it must be said, with nothing but waffle.

You mean answers you don't like.

[BashfulAnthony]

You mean answers you don't like.

No, I don't mean that.  I mean answers that actually address the question.  Have you any, or are you merely commenting in ignorance?

[ad_orientem]

I did once and you never responded. No doubt you'll just wave that off though.