You do know he's going to go for the 'god can't murder' drivel, don't you?
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Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind."
God makes a distinction between unjust and just killing here. Over to you to show that the flood was unjust.
Well, let's look at it within it's own parameters, shall we?
On one side we have a deity who is, allegedly, all-powerful and all-knowing.
On the other side we have a large population of humans, including children below the age of responsibility and some still in the womb.
This all-knowing deity decides that everyone except a handful of people are so evil that they deserve to die.
(Note that this group of people includes a drunkard who wanders round naked, and later curses one of his children for covering him up. Presumably stopping someone from getting a tan is objectively immoral...)
This all-knowing deity appears to not know that there is a difference between nature and nurture, or that people are capable of changing, and rising above their upbringing. This all-knowing deity appears to not know of any way to give people a change of heart (which is odd, considering that so many christians make precisely that claim).
Alternatively, this all-knowing deity is aware that, due to the deterministic nature of the universe he has created, all these people have been created by him solely for the purpose of being killed by drowning.
The there's the 'all-powerful' bit. Are you seriously telling me that an all-powerful deity could think of no other way to sort out the problem than mass killing?
Just: based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.
Well, that's an interesting one, isn't it? 'Just' includes the idea of 'moral'. No doubt Spud's argument will include some guff about his god defining morality (although I don't remember him getting involved in the OM discussion), which will, inevitably, mean that his god can't be immoral, and therefore anything his god does is moral and just and good.
That, along with the medieval idea that his god somehow 'owns' us and can do what it likes with our lives, will surely allow Spud to sleep well, safe in the knowledge that millions of people are killed by his god, like wheat being harvested, or some such metaphor.
Those of us who have empathy, and base our morality on a concept such as 'least harm', will look at these alleged events and the arguments for them, and see that they are abhorrent.
To make a claim that a 'just god' could cause the deaths of thousands, if not millions, and then claim that that was at all 'just' is disgusting - especially when combined with the additional claims that this god was all-knowing and all-powerful.
Even we, as limited, flawed, human beings, could devise ways to fix this situation which did not require deaths, and certainly not deaths in such a cruel way. However evil the people were, to have to watch your children and loved ones drowning, while being able to do nothing about it, is repugnant.
And then to think that we are supposed to be happy that they all died, including the recently-born and those not yet born... it boggles the (moral) mind. And yet, it is a large number of the people who do believe this who are then vehemently anti-abortion! Are they trying to make up for all the unborn children killed by their god?
The theology is this: God allows the world to continue as long as there are people who are being saved. When it gets to the point that the professing believers marry unbelievers, then the children of those marriages become unbelievers and soon there are no believers left- God will not allow the world to continue in that state, because the human heart is corrupt, even in children. You do not need to teach a child how to lie- he will work it out himself.
That's the view of Matthew Henry on the reason for the flood, and why it was just, in Genesis 6. The sons of God are thought to represent religious people, and the daughters of men, irreligious people.
I've just seen this reply by Spud. It looks like I was right.
ht
