Author Topic: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead  (Read 62547 times)

Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2015, 05:22:59 PM »
Supernatural claims are not subject to probability, it being based on naturalistic assumptions and methodology. The entirety of the post isn't even wrong.
So you claim. Please demonstrate your claim is correct.

Yes, I will reply to jakswan.
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Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2015, 05:23:32 PM »
The probability of a supernatural event occurring is always going to be zero; anything supernatural would be incalculable by definition
Why?
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Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2015, 05:24:33 PM »
Alan's outline isn't really probability in any meaningful sense of the term since all he is saying is something like 'if there are more guesses in favour of God then God becomes more likely' which is, quite frankly, nuts for a variety of reasons. ...
No, I am not saying that. That was quick off the mark for this thread's first straw man. Congrats.
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Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2015, 05:25:39 PM »
It was interesting to see 24 posts about my method before I even replied. Good to see the atheists are keen on looking at evidence before making up their mind.
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Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2015, 05:30:20 PM »
I'll actually reply when I have done the reply I promised JeremyP elsewhere.

Do continue to discuss how my reply will not make sense though.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2015, 05:45:17 PM »
Supernatural claims are not subject to probability, it being based on naturalistic assumptions and methodology. The entirety of the post isn't even wrong.
So you claim. Please demonstrate your claim is correct.

Yes, I will reply to jakswan.

Because probability as it is taught in maths and used in history and taught in history as a method works that way. Further philosophically  since we have no method to determine anything as a 'supernatural'  cause it cannot be used in a method based around it.

Until you provide such a method and show how it would work, you aren't t even wring.

Further until you deal with the issue that any method taught  in any university course in the UK for determining probability  is methodologically naturalistic and you provide no other your posts will be mere hand flapping.


As for your note about atheists judging you before you present the evidence, then note 1 that not all comments were by atheists and 2 you and I (and others on here) have gone down these arguments before. This makes your statement incorrect , quite possibly disingenuous and certainly a lazy generalization.


Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2015, 06:06:33 PM »
...

As for your note about atheists judging you before you present the evidence, then note 1 that not all comments were by atheists and 2 you and I (and others on here) have gone down these arguments before. This makes your statement incorrect , quite possibly disingenuous and certainly a lazy generalization.
You are right, yer know. Only 22 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2015, 06:10:00 PM »
...

As for your note about atheists judging you before you present the evidence, then note 1 that not all comments were by atheists and 2 you and I (and others on here) have gone down these arguments before. This makes your statement incorrect , quite possibly disingenuous and certainly a lazy generalization.
You are right, yer know. Only 22 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).
  Then either your awareness or your ability to count is at fault.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2015, 06:13:53 PM »
Of course it may be to quote the ex Secretary of State of Scotland you may just have 'mis - stated your awareness'

Gordon

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2015, 06:37:01 PM »
Alan's outline isn't really probability in any meaningful sense of the term since all he is saying is something like 'if there are more guesses in favour of God then God becomes more likely' which is, quite frankly, nuts for a variety of reasons. ...
No, I am not saying that. That was quick off the mark for this thread's first straw man. Congrats.

Not really, Alan, based on what you said, which included.

Quote
If the probability of those individual other explanations total less than 50%, it means that the probability of God having raised Jesus from the dead is greater than 50%. The percentages I quoted as examples, i.e. 12.5%, 6.25%, 3.125% and so on were part of a sequence where, though infinitely long, only total 25%, thus showing that it is possible to have an infinite number of other possible explanations, yet still have a total of less than 50%.

What you seem to be saying here is that probability of a single 'explanation', this being God, can be determined as being more likely by accounting for more than 50% of the total probabilities derived from all possible 'explanations'. So, my questions are;

1. What is the full list of possible 'explanations': 'God did it' is one, but what are the rest?

2. What method has been used to collect the data about each of the various 'explanations'.

3. What statistical tests are you using to determine probabilities in each case? You seem to be suggesting a multiple regression type of approach, and what levels of association and statistical significance have been found amongst all the variables that have been analysed?

I suspect, as I said earlier, that all you really doing here is juggling with guesses (with an added dash of confirmation bias) - unless of course you can show your workings.

Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2015, 06:57:07 PM »
...

As for your note about atheists judging you before you present the evidence, then note 1 that not all comments were by atheists and 2 you and I (and others on here) have gone down these arguments before. This makes your statement incorrect , quite possibly disingenuous and certainly a lazy generalization.
You are right, yer know. Only 22 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).
  Then either your awareness or your ability to count is at fault.
Apologies if I have included as atheists anyone who is not. I know ht and wigginhall are not. Have I missed anyone?
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

jeremyp

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2015, 07:11:24 PM »
Supernatural claims are not subject to probability, it being based on naturalistic assumptions and methodology. The entirety of the post isn't even wrong.
So you claim. Please demonstrate your claim is correct.

Yes, I will reply to jakswan.

The demonstration is quite simple and is encapsulated in the answer to the question:

How do you estimate the probability of a supernatural event?

Until you can answer that question, all bets are off.  And you can't do your subtraction method because all of the probabilities of the different options are interdependent.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2015, 07:13:09 PM »
...

As for your note about atheists judging you before you present the evidence, then note 1 that not all comments were by atheists and 2 you and I (and others on here) have gone down these arguments before. This makes your statement incorrect , quite possibly disingenuous and certainly a lazy generalization.
You are right, yer know. Only 22 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).
  Then either your awareness or your ability to count is at fault.
Apologies if I have included as atheists anyone who is not. I know ht and wigginhall are not. Have I missed anyone?
BA

Alien

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2015, 07:18:49 PM »
...

As for your note about atheists judging you before you present the evidence, then note 1 that not all comments were by atheists and 2 you and I (and others on here) have gone down these arguments before. This makes your statement incorrect , quite possibly disingenuous and certainly a lazy generalization.
You are right, yer know. Only 22 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).
  Then either your awareness or your ability to count is at fault.
Apologies if I have included as atheists anyone who is not. I know ht and wigginhall are not. Have I missed anyone?
BA
Sorry, BA.

Only 21 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).
Apparently 99.9975% atheist because I believe in one out of 4000 believed in (an atheist on Facebook). Yes, check the maths as well.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2015, 07:24:38 PM »
...

As for your note about atheists judging you before you present the evidence, then note 1 that not all comments were by atheists and 2 you and I (and others on here) have gone down these arguments before. This makes your statement incorrect , quite possibly disingenuous and certainly a lazy generalization.
You are right, yer know. Only 22 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).
  Then either your awareness or your ability to count is at fault.
Apologies if I have included as atheists anyone who is not. I know ht and wigginhall are not. Have I missed anyone?
BA
Sorry, BA.

Only 21 of the 24 statements were by atheists (that I know of).

Can I suggest you stop rushing at this since this is your third mistake on a simple point. BA made three posts not one.

Perhaps rather than making such egregious repeated errors, you stop with the desperate and incorrect attempt to portray yourself as some sort of victim and just deal with the arguments rather than being irrelevantly wrong multiple times.

SqueakyVoice

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2015, 07:27:29 PM »
... irrelevantly wrong multiple times.
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2Corrie

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2015, 08:26:20 PM »
Probability of some not believing, even if one rose from the dead : 100%   (Luke 16:31)
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Shaker

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2015, 08:31:20 PM »
Probability of some not believing, even if one rose from the dead : 100%   (Luke 16:31)
Same point as to Alien, surely: how do you assign a probability to this?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2015, 08:32:08 PM »
Probability of some not believing, even if one rose from the dead : 100%   (Luke 16:31)
Early poisoning of the well

Leonard James

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2015, 08:35:32 PM »
Probability of some not believing, even if one rose from the dead : 100%   (Luke 16:31)

Well you don't need much of a brain to realise that. If I told you my brother rose from the dead and I had seen him, would you believe it?

Gordon

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2015, 08:41:01 PM »
Probability of some not believing, even if one rose from the dead : 100%   (Luke 16:31)

Then it is up to you guys to make your case without resorting to the usual bunch of fallacies, and if you really are going to base your case on probability then you need to explain your methods and workings.

Shaker

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2015, 08:41:51 PM »
Well I'm waiting, as I'm sure you are Gordon!
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

wigginhall

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2015, 08:43:17 PM »
I think some Christians use the notion of probability as some kind of subjective feeling, rather than a mathematical concept.  Well, God probably exists = I have a gut feeling about it.
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Shaker

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2015, 08:44:24 PM »
That's the one wiggles  ::)
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Gordon

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Re: Low Probability that god raised someone from the dead
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2015, 08:46:29 PM »
Well I'm waiting, as I'm sure you are Gordon!

Edge of my seat, Shaker!