Author Topic: Revelation 20 the 1000 years  (Read 54403 times)

~TW~

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Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« on: June 11, 2015, 07:21:13 AM »
Christians should know and have some idea of Revelation Chap 20. So can we presume Christ has returned and we are all happy and contented living on a paradise earth in the kingdom as some believe.All is well judgement has taken place.

 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[h] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 So no more problems BUT we read

   7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

 Dear me here we were in a paradise earth all comfy and now this. Who are these nations and why has God let satan loose on us in his kingdom ?

 Now I know Alien and others know the clear biblical answers to this,but to those Christians who see us living on Earth in a literal 1000 years can you tell us the answer as to why this happens.

 ~TW~
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ad_orientem

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2015, 07:54:41 AM »
Are there any chiliasts (millenialists) on this forum anymore? Clearly the thousand years is a figurative of the time between Christ's advent and his return, for since the Ascension Christ has already taken his place at the righthand of the Father and rules his kingdom with his saints.

"The Lord said to my Lord: Sit thou at my right hand: Until I make thy enemies thy footstool" and "I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years".
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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2015, 08:28:15 AM »
Are there any chiliasts (millenialists) on this forum anymore? Clearly the thousand years is a figurative of the time between Christ's advent and his return, for since the Ascension Christ has already taken his place at the righthand of the Father and rules his kingdom with his saints.

"The Lord said to my Lord: Sit thou at my right hand: Until I make thy enemies thy footstool" and "I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years".

Thank you A_O I know you sail in the same end time ship as myself and Alien and our good man from Scotland,but in answer to your question we do still have chiliasts on board this forum so my thread is for them to answer.I don't think we will get many answers.

 Take care A_O blessings.

                    ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2015, 10:11:53 AM »
Christians should know and have some idea of Revelation Chap 20. So can we presume Christ has returned and we are all happy and contented living on a paradise earth in the kingdom as some believe.All is well judgement has taken place.

 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[h] 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 So no more problems BUT we read

   7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

 Dear me here we were in a paradise earth all comfy and now this. Who are these nations and why has God let satan loose on us in his kingdom ?

 Now I know Alien and others know the clear biblical answers to this,but to those Christians who see us living on Earth in a literal 1000 years can you tell us the answer as to why this happens.

 ~TW~
In your interpretation;

Satan, is he currently in prison or not?

If not  - has he been released (and when did that happen) or yet to be sent there?

If yes - when did he get sent down? Is he due for parole any time soon?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

ad_orientem

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2015, 11:05:38 AM »
The answer can be found in the Harrowing of Hell.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell
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~TW~

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2015, 09:42:54 PM »
Hi Alien,Anchorman,Spud and A_O on holiday tomorrow Friday   :)   not many visitors to this thread today so it would seem the american followers of Revelation 20 {you know what I mean} are not biting  today.

Shame really because they are waiting for something which is not on the cards.

   ~TW~
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Spud

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 10:43:10 PM »
Hi TW

I had a read of this this morning. I agree that the 1000 years are a symbol. I wonder if the premillenialists base their literal interpretation of the phrase, '1000 years', on its repetition- is it six times? within the passage. I had wondered if this repetition was significant at all, though not to the extent that it should be taken literally.

Have a good holiday

Spud

2Corrie

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2015, 07:54:14 PM »
Why Revelation 20, when the narrative begins in Revelation 19:11 ?
"It is finished."

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2015, 05:49:33 PM »
Hi all  :) now back from holiday, at home now so a chance now for a good rest.

 Alien A_O and Spud and Anchorman a serious question for you all we know Satan is bound now.But could he ever have stopped the gospel from going out and in what way can he no longer deceive the nations ?

  ~TW~
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Hope

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2015, 06:15:59 PM »
but in answer to your question we do still have chiliasts on board this forum
Namely?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

~TW~

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2015, 08:04:08 PM »
but in answer to your question we do still have chiliasts on board this forum
Namely?

 Those Christians who believe in a literal millennium ,any way can you throw any light on my question.

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Hope

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2015, 09:45:07 AM »
I think it should be remembered that - as prophecy - Revelation may not tell the events precisely as they occur.  By its nature, revelation is pictorial, and will generally be pictorially specific to the ideas that its first hearers would understand.  Perhaps more important is Jesus' teaching that we will not know the end times until they come, but that we will know them when they do.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

~TW~

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2015, 09:13:29 AM »
Not to many takers to my question, But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out and in what way can he no longer deceive the nations ?

  ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

Spud

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2015, 03:10:06 PM »
Quote
But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out
Matthew 24 tells us that for the sake of the elect, the days of tribulation were cut short, which meant that Satan could not stop the gospel going out. It was because Jesus warned the disciples to look out for the abomination of desolation that they were able to escape and take the gospel out.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 03:14:31 PM by Spud »

Spud

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2015, 03:16:23 PM »
Quote
in what way can he no longer deceive the nations ?
He cannot unite them in the way that we are told will happen when he is loosed after the millennium.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2015, 04:01:01 PM »
Not to many takers to my question, But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out and in what way can he no longer deceive the nations ?

  ~TW~

The only one deceived, is you!
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

~TW~

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2015, 04:54:34 PM »
Not to many takers to my question, But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out and in what way can he no longer deceive the nations ?

  ~TW~

The only one deceived, is you!

 BA I think Gordon may remove your post,I hope he does.This thread is way above you.

 ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2015, 04:59:23 PM »
Not to many takers to my question, But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out and in what way can he no longer deceive the nations ?

  ~TW~

The only one deceived, is you!

 BA I think Gordon may remove your post,I hope he does.This thread is way above you.

 ~TW~

Shouldn't that be, "below?"    :)
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

2Corrie

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2015, 06:51:32 PM »
Quote
But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out
Matthew 24 tells us that for the sake of the elect, the days of tribulation were cut short, which meant that Satan could not stop the gospel going out. It was because Jesus warned the disciples to look out for the abomination of desolation that they were able to escape and take the gospel out.

ok, let's say that's the correct interpretation of Matthew 24:15-22:

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

My question would then be, when did this happen? :

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Because our Lord appears to be saying that these things will happen 'Immediately after the tribulation'.
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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2015, 11:07:05 PM »
2 Corrie thank you for your post,but we are not in Matt 24,but Rev 20

 The question is Why does Satan have to be bound ? what is the purpose.

~TW~
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OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2015, 12:33:35 AM »
I've heard it explained that there will be fakers that resent God's rule and resent the saints. Satan will draw them out, they will be exposed.

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."   Rev. 20:9

Now I will put back on my panmillenialist hat. Yes that's right, I'm a panmillenialst. Do you want to know what that is? You want to hear? Here we go. I don't know for sure which is the right position on this. I do know that should we be wrong on our position, it does not alter our salvation. I am a panmillenialist because whatever position one takes, wrong or right, it will all pan out in the end.

ad_orientem

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2015, 06:04:34 AM »
2 Corrie thank you for your post,but we are not in Matt 24,but Rev 20

 The question is Why does Satan have to be bound ? what is the purpose.

~TW~

When Christ descended into Hades he preached the Gospel to the dead there, as St. Peter says in one of his epistles. Then he had Satan bound and now he has no power over death to hold the dead in Hades. Rather the way to heaven has now been opened and the saints live and reign with Christ.
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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2015, 08:33:24 AM »
2 Corrie thank you for your post,but we are not in Matt 24,but Rev 20

 The question is Why does Satan have to be bound ? what is the purpose.

~TW~

When Christ descended into Hades he preached the Gospel to the dead there, as St. Peter says in one of his epistles. Then he had Satan bound and now he has no power over death to hold the dead in Hades. Rather the way to heaven has now been opened and the saints live and reign with Christ.

Thank you A_O good shot well done .Johnny yes we are all of the Pan class at the end of the day but as A_O said bound now and in the 1000 years now.Also 2 Corrie the points you raised are all in the past.

     ~TW~
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Spud

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2015, 01:03:36 PM »
Quote
But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out
Matthew 24 tells us that for the sake of the elect, the days of tribulation were cut short, which meant that Satan could not stop the gospel going out. It was because Jesus warned the disciples to look out for the abomination of desolation that they were able to escape and take the gospel out.

ok, let's say that's the correct interpretation of Matthew 24:15-22:

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

My question would then be, when did this happen? :

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Because our Lord appears to be saying that these things will happen 'Immediately after the tribulation'.

Hi 2Corrie
Hopefully TW won't mind if we digress a bit.
A straightforward reading, to me, says that this is talking about the fall of the temple spoken of at the beginning of the chapter, and that soon after this would be the second coming, the end of the world and the judgment day. That's what confuses a lot of people, because the world didn't end then, as we know.
In the past I've toyed with the idea that the whole passage refers to AD 70, as preterists teach. But this passage was preached on in our Church earlier this year. The man said that verse 36, "But about that day or hour no one knows" is talking about the future second coming, whereas the first part of chapter 24 talks about AD 70.
At the time, I didn't really see how he arrived at this conclusion, because as I said above, it seems as though the second coming was to follow immediately after the tribulation (AD 70 and the preceding persecution).
After TW put this thread up, I was browsing the web on the subject, and I'm now seeing a possible explanation- that 'these things' in verse 34 refers to the fall of Jerusalem and the temple; and 'that day or hour' in verse 36 is referring his second coming, after that event. In other words, 'no-one knows about that day or hour' is referring back to verses 29-31.
This would mean that, having predicted the fall of Jerusalem within the disciples' lifetime, Jesus then clarified what he meant when he said his return would follow 'immediately after that'. His return would be at some unknown day and hour after the fall of Jerusalem. In other words, it is still future.
Hope that makes sense. I recall reading this interpretation on the website of St Helens church in London, of which I was a member at one time.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 01:07:29 PM by Spud »

~TW~

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Re: Revelation 20 the 1000 years
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2015, 06:17:06 PM »
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20

Well I read it.

I've alway's been told it was written in code and was not meant to be taken literally.

However, one thing I did notice on this reading is that those who weren't in the book of life ( non Christians presumably) don't get cast into hell until the second death which seems to come after the thousand years.

It's a very confusing passage and most scholars I have spoken to don't put much store in the actual meaning.

Obviously other Christians vary.

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Hi Rose good to have you hear in many ways it is written in  a code but it can be understood more later out for bible study.

  ~TW~
" Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs/George Burns