Revelation 20 the 1000 years

[~TW~]

Rose you wrote------However, one thing I did notice on this reading is that those who weren't in the book of life ( non Christians presumably) don't get cast into hell until the second death which seems to come after the thousand years.
----------------------------------------------------------
You presumed right those in the book of life are those who are saved,the second death follows after the 1000 years which ends on the last day /final trumpet.

           ~TW~

[~TW~]

But could he Satan, ever have stopped the gospel from going out

Matthew 24 tells us that for the sake of the elect, the days of tribulation were cut short, which meant that Satan could not stop the gospel going out. It was because Jesus warned the disciples to look out for the abomination of desolation that they were able to escape and take the gospel out.

ok, let's say that's the correct interpretation of Matthew 24:15-22:

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

My question would then be, when did this happen? :

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Because our Lord appears to be saying that these things will happen 'Immediately after the tribulation'.

Hi 2Corrie
Hopefully TW won't mind if we digress a bit.
A straightforward reading, to me, says that this is talking about the fall of the temple spoken of at the beginning of the chapter, and that soon after this would be the second coming, the end of the world and the judgment day. That's what confuses a lot of people, because the world didn't end then, as we know.
In the past I've toyed with the idea that the whole passage refers to AD 70, as preterists teach. But this passage was preached on in our Church earlier this year. The man said that verse 36, "But about that day or hour no one knows" is talking about the future second coming, whereas the first part of chapter 24 talks about AD 70.
At the time, I didn't really see how he arrived at this conclusion, because as I said above, it seems as though the second coming was to follow immediately after the tribulation (AD 70 and the preceding persecution).
After TW put this thread up, I was browsing the web on the subject, and I'm now seeing a possible explanation- that 'these things' in verse 34 refers to the fall of Jerusalem and the temple; and 'that day or hour' in verse 36 is referring his second coming, after that event. In other words, 'no-one knows about that day or hour' is referring back to verses 29-31.
This would mean that, having predicted the fall of Jerusalem within the disciples' lifetime, Jesus then clarified what he meant when he said his return would follow 'immediately after that'. His return would be at some unknown day and hour after the fall of Jerusalem. In other words, it is still future.
Hope that makes sense. I recall reading this interpretation on the website of St Helens church in London, of which I was a member at one time.

 Fair Comment Spud and I would say correct.Now a tit-bit for 2 corrie--------------9 I, John, your brother and companion (sharer and participator) with you in the tribulation and kingdom and patient endurance [which are] in Jesus Christ, was on the isle called Patmos, [banished] on account of [my witnessing to] the Word of God and the testimony (the proof, the evidence) for Jesus Christ.

Notice 2 Corrie the tribulation that John now mentions is ongoing and AD 70 is in the past.

   ~TW~

[2Corrie]

Interesting, so according to TW the Millennium is characterised by a time of great tribulation!


And the Domitian persecution is ongoing 

[BashfulAnthony]

Interesting, so according to TW the Millennium is characterised by a time of great tribulation!


And the Domitian persecution is ongoing 

Has there ever been, in history, a time when there is not great tribulation, somewhere?

[~TW~]

Interesting, so according to TW the Millennium is characterised by a time of great tribulation!


And the Domitian persecution is ongoing 

 2corrie please read what is written AD 70 was a time of tribulation,John in Rev 1 states the time for those then was tribulation and history backs it up.

 It is the words tribulation which can cause confusion.

Stick with the points of the thread you introduced Matt 24 it is past history we are in Rev 20

    ~TW

[ad_orientem]

AD 70 is a figure of something, probably a great tribulation which will occur before our Lord returns.

[~TW~]

AD 70 is a figure of something, probably a great tribulation which will occur before our Lord returns.

 It seems to fit the final conflict here.----------------until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 then the final day is ushered in.

       ~TW~

[Spud]

2 Corrie thank you for your post,but we are not in Matt 24,but Rev 20

 The question is Why does Satan have to be bound ? what is the purpose.

~TW~

When Christ descended into Hades he preached the Gospel to the dead there, as St. Peter says in one of his epistles. Then he had Satan bound and now he has no power over death to hold the dead in Hades. Rather the way to heaven has now been opened and the saints live and reign with Christ.

Peter says (1 Peter 3:20) that he preached to the spirits in prison, who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. I'm not sure how to take this- did they get a second chance to be saved?
Also, how exactly did he bind Satan? Was this preaching that Peter mentions, somehow the mechanism by which that took place? I say that because in Luke 10 we are told that demons submitted to the disciples when they preached that the kingdom of God was near. Would you say that Christ preached to the spirits of all the people in Hades, including those from after Noah's time? Was that what bound Satan?
Thanks.

[Spud]

I've heard it explained that there will be fakers that resent God's rule and resent the saints. Satan will draw them out, they will be exposed.

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."   Rev. 20:9

Now I will put back on my panmillenialist hat. Yes that's right, I'm a panmillenialst. Do you want to know what that is? You want to hear? Here we go. I don't know for sure which is the right position on this. I do know that should we be wrong on our position, it does not alter our salvation. I am a panmillenialist because whatever position one takes, wrong or right, it will all pan out in the end.

Before you had put your panmillenialist hat back on, what were you? Just trying to fit the bit in bold into the context of a non-literal thousand years.

[BashfulAnthony]

AD 70 is a figure of something, probably a great tribulation which will occur before our Lord returns.

 It seems to fit the final conflict here.----------------until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 then the final day is ushered in.

       ~TW~

Sounds like you have some kind of special knowledge  -  but given by whom?

[ad_orientem]

2 Corrie thank you for your post,but we are not in Matt 24,but Rev 20

 The question is Why does Satan have to be bound ? what is the purpose.

~TW~

When Christ descended into Hades he preached the Gospel to the dead there, as St. Peter says in one of his epistles. Then he had Satan bound and now he has no power over death to hold the dead in Hades. Rather the way to heaven has now been opened and the saints live and reign with Christ.

Peter says (1 Peter 3:20) that he preached to the spirits in prison, who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. I'm not sure how to take this- did they get a second chance to be saved?
Also, how exactly did he bind Satan? Was this preaching that Peter mentions, somehow the mechanism by which that took place? I say that because in Luke 10 we are told that demons submitted to the disciples when they preached that the kingdom of God was near. Would you say that Christ preached to the spirits of all the people in Hades, including those from after Noah's time? Was that what bound Satan?
Thanks.

In the iconography of the Church (the Harrowing Of Hell) we see angels binding Satan and Christ leading the OT saints out of Hades, beginning with Adam and Eve. The angels represent the power of the gospel and I think that Christ preached to all the dead there, though that doesn't mean all had ears to hear, so to speak.

[2Corrie]

So when our Lord said 'immediately', He did not actually mean 'immediately'.  Sorry you've lost me!


btw, rewind to Rev 19:11, then we can talk.

[Spud]

So when our Lord said 'immediately', He did not actually mean 'immediately'.  Sorry you've lost me!


btw, rewind to Rev 19:11, then we can talk.

I said it was a possible explanation! If we take 'immediately' to mean immediately, then, we have to take 'you' in v. 32-33 to mean the disciples who were with Jesus at the time.

[~TW~]

AD 70 is a figure of something, probably a great tribulation which will occur before our Lord returns.

 It seems to fit the final conflict here.----------------until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 then the final day is ushered in.

       ~TW~

Sounds like you have some kind of special knowledge  -  but given by whom?

Not special knowledge,a study of this book is the answer.I do have the knowledge of London if that is any help drove a cab for thirty years 

~TW~

[~TW~]

2 Corrie thank you for your post,but we are not in Matt 24,but Rev 20

 The question is Why does Satan have to be bound ? what is the purpose.

~TW~

When Christ descended into Hades he preached the Gospel to the dead there, as St. Peter says in one of his epistles. Then he had Satan bound and now he has no power over death to hold the dead in Hades. Rather the way to heaven has now been opened and the saints live and reign with Christ.

Peter says (1 Peter 3:20) that he preached to the spirits in prison, who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. I'm not sure how to take this- did they get a second chance to be saved?
Also, how exactly did he bind Satan? Was this preaching that Peter mentions, somehow the mechanism by which that took place? I say that because in Luke 10 we are told that demons submitted to the disciples when they preached that the kingdom of God was near. Would you say that Christ preached to the spirits of all the people in Hades, including those from after Noah's time? Was that what bound Satan?
Thanks.

Spud will get back to you on this.

 ~TW~

[BashfulAnthony]

AD 70 is a figure of something, probably a great tribulation which will occur before our Lord returns.

 It seems to fit the final conflict here.----------------until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 then the final day is ushered in.

       ~TW~

Sounds like you have some kind of special knowledge  -  but given by whom?

Not special knowledge,a study of this book is the answer.I do have the knowledge of London if that is any help drove a cab for thirty years

~TW~

Ah, so you're used to going round in circles, then.   

[~TW~]

AD 70 is a figure of something, probably a great tribulation which will occur before our Lord returns.

 It seems to fit the final conflict here.----------------until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 then the final day is ushered in.

       ~TW~

Sounds like you have some kind of special knowledge  -  but given by whom?

Not special knowledge,a study of this book is the answer.I do have the knowledge of London if that is any help drove a cab for thirty years

~TW~

Ah, so you're used to going round in circles, then.   

Well no one is going round in circles my post have been solid,in the millennium  now, Satan bound now,and a question which was


 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

 Dear me here we were in a paradise earth all comfy and now this. Who are these nations and why has God let Satan loose on us in his kingdom ?

 Now I know Alien and others know the clear biblical answers to this,but to those Christians who see us living on Earth in a literal 1000 years can you tell us the answer as to why this happens.

 ~TW~

[Spud]

Dear me here we were in a paradise earth all comfy and now this. Who are these nations and why has God let Satan loose on us in his kingdom ?

 Now I know Alien and others know the clear biblical answers to this,but to those Christians who see us living on Earth in a literal 1000 years can you tell us the answer as to why this happens.

Here's a premillennialist answer, TW:-

http://www.gotquestions.org/release-Satan.html

Now I understand why 2Corrie wanted to rewind to Rev 19:11.

[2Corrie]

Let me state my reason, it is simple, that is where the narrative begins.

[DaveM]

Peter says (1 Peter 3:20) that he preached to the spirits in prison, who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. I'm not sure how to take this- did they get a second chance to be saved?
Also, how exactly did he bind Satan? Was this preaching that Peter mentions, somehow the mechanism by which that took place? I say that because in Luke 10 we are told that demons submitted to the disciples when they preached that the kingdom of God was near. Would you say that Christ preached to the spirits of all the people in Hades, including those from after Noah's time? Was that what bound Satan?
Thanks.

Hi Spud,

It is interesting to compare three passages in 1 Peter where the word ‘preached’ is used in most English translations. These are: 

1 Peter 1:12.  It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

1 Peter 1:25.  But the word of the Lord remains forever.  And this word is the good news that was preached to you.

1 Peter 3:18-20.  For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

In the first two passages the Greek word translated as preached is the word ‘euaggelizo’ which means to ‘declare (or bring) glad (or good) tidings.  So it is a word denoting the preaching of the Gospel.
 
However in 1 Peter 3:18-20 a different Greek word is used.  I have no doubt that Peter deliberately chose this word because he wished to make it clear that this was not the same sort of ‘preaching’ as mentioned earlier.  The word Peter used here is the word ‘kerusso’, which means ‘to make proclamation or to herald (as a public crier would do).  A victorious general would proclaim his victory and the defeat of the enemy.  In a Biblical context it could also apply to announcing a divine truth, and while this could mean the good news of the Gospel it could equally apply to a divine truth which is not necessarily good news for the hearers.
   
So my view is that it is incorrect to use this passage to suggest that those beyond the grave are given a further opportunity to hear the gospel and find salvation.  Such an interpretation is not only in direct contradiction with other Scriptures (e.g. Luke 16:26 and Hebrews 9:27) but also conflicts with the overall thrust of 1 Peter. 

I think it is preferable to understand this passage as Jesus going to make proclamation to the forces of evil and declaring that they had not won the victory as they imagined.  Just when Satan and his minions were celebrating what they thought was their greatest victory, Jesus gate-crashed their party and proclaimed their greatest defeat.  The cross had triumphed over the grave and sin and the way was now open for man to again be reconciled to God.  Satan had been dealt a mortal blow.  His victory celebration came to an abrupt and ignominious end.   

The next challenge is to now go to 1 Peter 4:6 and work out how this fits in to the overall pattern of things.  A topic for another day.

A final thought on the view of Satan being bound at the present time.  Peter also says, ‘Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour’   If that is a description of Satan while bound, I would certainly have no wish to encounter him when he is not.

Enjoy your day, Dave 

[~TW~]

Dear me here we were in a paradise earth all comfy and now this. Who are these nations and why has God let Satan loose on us in his kingdom ?

 Now I know Alien and others know the clear biblical answers to this,but to those Christians who see us living on Earth in a literal 1000 years can you tell us the answer as to why this happens.

Here's a premillennialist answer, TW:-

http://www.gotquestions.org/release-Satan.html

Now I understand why 2Corrie wanted to rewind to Rev 19:11.

Thanks Spud but if you cant see the flaws in that then !

~TW~

[~TW~]

In reply to Dave the first part of your post it is a yes. The  last part--------------A final thought on the view of Satan being bound at the present time.  Peter also says, ‘Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour’   If that is a description of Satan while bound, I would certainly have no wish to encounter him when he is not.

How about a few comments from you in which you tell us how you see bound and its meaning. For you Dave-------

             http://www.cprf.co.uk/articles/revelation20.htm#.VY7we_lVhBd

                      ~TW~

[Spud]

Thanks Spud but if you cant see the flaws in that then !

~TW~

I thought it was a good summary of their view, easy to read.

[~TW~]

Thanks Spud but if you cant see the flaws in that then !

~TW~

I thought it was a good summary of their view, easy to read.

And very easy to see the flaws.Spud think on this Jesus was asked if a man has more then one wife who is he married to,now what was the answer and then you will see the flaws.

 ~TW~

[2Corrie]

Let me state my reason, it is simple, that is where the narrative begins.

my views have nothing to do with quoted site. simply a straight forward reading of the narrative - ignoring the man made chapter breaks. rewind to Rev 19:11. 

Dave, pass that brick wall over will you