What is the problem religionists have with secularism?

[Hope]

High there Cyb, B A, yes I suppose the use of drubbing could be seen as irritating, well well;

Why would I find your posts irritating, ippy; especially those that refer to drubbings that I'm supposed to have received at the hands of X or Y?  If it gives you pleasure to regard them as drubbings, its no skin off my nose.

...at he same time there are posts on this thread that clearly demonstrate there isn't an automatic connection between intelligence and education.

Since you mention this, I couldn't agree more - but I wasn't going to mention it lest it hurt your feelings.

[ippy]

High there Cyb, B A, yes I suppose the use of drubbing could be seen as irritating, well well;

Why would I find your posts irritating, ippy; especially those that refer to drubbings that I'm supposed to have received at the hands of X or Y?  If it gives you pleasure to regard them as drubbings, its no skin off my nose.

...at he same time there are posts on this thread that clearly demonstrate there isn't an automatic connection between intelligence and education.

Since you mention this, I couldn't agree more - but I wasn't going to mention it lest it hurt your feelings.

Mention away_____

ippy

[ippy]

Hope, how come you really seem to think that atheism is some kind of belief system, could you explain the route you have taken to arrive at this rather strange apparent conclusion of yours.

I note on catching up with this thread there seem to be some sort of mental block in most religionists minds that prevents them understanding the basic principles of how secularism works and in some cases religionists see secularism as some form of deep and dark enemy of religions in general, I wondered why? Thus the O P title.

ippy

[jeremyp]

There are no atheist beliefs. 

Sorry jeremy, but there are no less atheist beliefs as there religious beliefs. 

Wrong.  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

Without a belief system one can't function as a human being.

But atheism is not a belief system.  Atheists have belief systems but belief systems are not atheism.

It s the underpinning foundation of one's approach to life.

Nope.  For me, atheism is a consequence of some of my beliefs.  It's not a foundation.

How do you define 'progressive'?

What do you think "progressive" means?  A belief that you don't burn witches at the stake is progress over a belief that you do.

What scares you?

The denseness is strong with this one.  If you have a Christian who thinks the End of the World is a Good Thing, wouldn't you get nervous if he was in charge of all America's atom bombs?

[cyberman]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

[Andy]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Tortoises wouldn't be atheist because the suffix 'ist' is in reference to people (yea, I'm being anal).

Nowhere am I aware of an atheist having to be aware of their atheism in order to qualify to be one, and that goes for a-anything.

[ProfessorDavey]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

i agree - the notion that an atheist is anyone or anything that does not believe in god even if they have no concept of what the concept of god is is, well meaningless. By that measure my gate post is atheist, but that has no relevance.

To my mind the only meaningful use of the term is someone who understands the basic concept of a god but does not believe they exist.

[cyberman]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Tortoises wouldn't be atheist because the suffix 'ist' is in reference to people (yea, I'm being anal).

Nowhere am I aware of an atheist having to be aware of their atheism in order to qualify to be one, and that goes for a-anything.

Nowhere am I aware of someone identifying as an atheist who doesn't know at least something about what the term means; and that goes for anything-ist.

[Andy]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Tortoises wouldn't be atheist because the suffix 'ist' is in reference to people (yea, I'm being anal).

Nowhere am I aware of an atheist having to be aware of their atheism in order to qualify to be one, and that goes for a-anything.

Nowhere am I aware of someone identifying as an atheist who doesn't know at least something about what the term means; and that goes for anything-ist.

Agreed. How does that mean you can't be considered an atheist if you aren't aware of being one or what it means?

[cyberman]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Tortoises wouldn't be atheist because the suffix 'ist' is in reference to people (yea, I'm being anal).

Nowhere am I aware of an atheist having to be aware of their atheism in order to qualify to be one, and that goes for a-anything.

Nowhere am I aware of someone identifying as an atheist who doesn't know at least something about what the term means; and that goes for anything-ist.

Agreed. How does that mean you can't be considered an atheist if you aren't aware of being one or what it means?

To be honest, I prefer to consider usage and definition rather than etymology, but given that the "atheism is neutral" lobby are so fond of playing the a- card I thought I'd use the -ist card! an -ist is  someone engaged with a belief or practice, not someone who passively and accidentally isn't another -ist.

[ippy]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

[cyberman]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

Thanks for sharing.

Feel free to join in with the topic being discussed any time you like

[BashfulAnthony]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

Spot on. Speaking as one charged with obsession and a deep infatuated love of Richard Dawkins, His soft grey hair whipping in the wind like some kind of...Heathcliffe, his fragrant delivery of those lovely......er,well any way....as somebody so accused I think you have shown that obsession with God is yet another obvious thing missed by antitheists......

[floo]

Some Christians seem to have an obsession with non believers!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some Christians seem to have an obsession with non believers!

Nope....here we are, after all, on a religion forum and you guys just sort of pop up.

[ProfessorDavey]

Some Christians seem to have an obsession with non believers!

Nope....here we are, after all, on a religion forum and you guys just sort of pop up.

No we aren't. This is a 'Religion & Ethics' board and this thread is on the General Discussion section. Why shouldn't non religious people be interested in talking about ethics, or indeed the impact religion still has on our society, i.e. conversations about secularism. And just to be clear this boards welcomes non theists just as it welcomes theists. We are equal here.

[ippy]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippi

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippi

I'm sorry if you can't see the differences between unicorns and God then as they say ''yer nae use tae me!''

[BashfulAnthony]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippy

And your fascination extends to derision, day in and day out, and never seems satiated  I call that a rather unhealthy obsession:  yet you describe theists as being subject to "obviously man made nonsense."  Can you spot the contradiction in your position?

[ippy]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippy

And your fascination extends to derision, day in and day out, and never seems satiated  I call that a rather unhealthy obsession:  yet you describe theists as being subject to "obviously man made nonsense."  Can you spot the contradiction in your position?

It's hardly my fault that you can't see the wood for the trees B A.

ippy

[ippy]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippi

I'm sorry if you can't see the differences between unicorns and God then as they say ''yer nae use tae me!''

Can you prove which one is real Woo? Or are they both very unlikely to be in the realms of reality, realistically I think the latter has to be the case; or if you like they're both about as likely to be true as each other.

It's a go nowhere belief anyway so why bother with it?

ippy 

[jeremyp]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Even accepting your definition, atheism is not a belief system, it's just not accepting somebody else's belief system.

[ProfessorDavey]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Even accepting your definition, atheism is not a belief system, it's just not accepting somebody else's belief system.

Absolutely - atheism is no more a belief system than not believing in Thor, or not believing that Liverpool are the greatest football team the world has ever seen, or not believing that Jimi Hendrix was the greatest guitarist ever etc, etc.

[BashfulAnthony]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippy

And your fascination extends to derision, day in and day out, and never seems satiated  I call that a rather unhealthy obsession:  yet you describe theists as being subject to "obviously man made nonsense."  Can you spot the contradiction in your position?

It's hardly my fault that you can't see the wood for the trees B A.

ippy

Oh, I see very well.  My point, which you certainly cannot see, is why it bothers you, and why you keep on banging on.  And so far you have not explained, only waffled.  It seems to be a real problem with you.