What is the problem religionists have with secularism?

[ippy]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippy

And your fascination extends to derision, day in and day out, and never seems satiated  I call that a rather unhealthy obsession:  yet you describe theists as being subject to "obviously man made nonsense."  Can you spot the contradiction in your position?

It's hardly my fault that you can't see the wood for the trees B A.

ippy

Oh, I see very well.  My point, which you certainly cannot see, is why it bothers you, and why you keep on banging on.  And so far you have not explained, only waffled.  It seems to be a real problem with you.

You're entitled to think whatever you would like to think B A.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippy

And your fascination extends to derision, day in and day out, and never seems satiated  I call that a rather unhealthy obsession:  yet you describe theists as being subject to "obviously man made nonsense."  Can you spot the contradiction in your position?

It's hardly my fault that you can't see the wood for the trees B A.

ippy

Oh, I see very well.  My point, which you certainly cannot see, is why it bothers you, and why you keep on banging on.  And so far you have not explained, only waffled.  It seems to be a real problem with you.

You're entitled to think whatever you would like to think B A.

ippy

Really?  Then why do you spend so much time telling me that I am wrong??

[ippy]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippy

And your fascination extends to derision, day in and day out, and never seems satiated  I call that a rather unhealthy obsession:  yet you describe theists as being subject to "obviously man made nonsense."  Can you spot the contradiction in your position?

It's hardly my fault that you can't see the wood for the trees B A.

ippy

Oh, I see very well.  My point, which you certainly cannot see, is why it bothers you, and why you keep on banging on.  And so far you have not explained, only waffled.  It seems to be a real problem with you.

You're entitled to think whatever you would like to think B A.

ippy

Really?  Then why do you spend so much time telling me that I am wrong??

Think about it.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

I don't go about my daily life wondering about whether unicorns exist or not, any more than I wonder about this theist god thing they keep refering to.

About 61 years ago when I was twelve the stuff I'd heard about the god idea, didn't make any sense to me then and over the years I've not seen or heard anything that would make me change my mind, now I'm even more convinced the whole gods ideas is nonsense.

ippy

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

No not really B A it's more to do with adults believing such obviously man made nonsense, that's intersting to me and how they are so convinced about their rubbish there seems to be some effort at various times to inflict their regressive nonsence upon others with things like the bishops block voting against the assisted dying bill, in spite of the 82% of our population want it in some form or another; fortunatly there are ways around the bishops but they shouldn't be there in the first place.

Mind you, they do serve as another example of this largely unwanted type of belief that should have made it's exit many years ago, like Duglas Adams said religion is fascinating but it surprises me that so many otherwise intelligent people believe in it. (Not verbatim of Duggie but near enough).

For the same reason as Duggie B A that's why I'm here.

ippy

And your fascination extends to derision, day in and day out, and never seems satiated  I call that a rather unhealthy obsession:  yet you describe theists as being subject to "obviously man made nonsense."  Can you spot the contradiction in your position?

It's hardly my fault that you can't see the wood for the trees B A.

ippy

Oh, I see very well.  My point, which you certainly cannot see, is why it bothers you, and why you keep on banging on.  And so far you have not explained, only waffled.  It seems to be a real problem with you.

You're entitled to think whatever you would like to think B A.

ippy

Really?  Then why do you spend so much time telling me that I am wrong??

Think about it.

ippy

I have.  And I'm still asking.

[cyberman]

Why shouldn't non religious people be interested in talking about ethics, or indeed the impact religion still has on our society.....

No-one has said they shouldn't be, so get that chip of your shoulder, chum.

[jeremyp]

Why shouldn't non religious people be interested in talking about ethics, or indeed the impact religion still has on our society.....

No-one has said they shouldn't be, so get that chip of your shoulder, chum.

Bashful Anthony has, so take your chip off your shoulder.

[jeremyp]

I'm sorry if you can't see the differences between unicorns and God then as they say ''yer nae use tae me!''

The point is not the difference but the similarities.  Both are fictional.

[cyberman]

Why shouldn't non religious people be interested in talking about ethics, or indeed the impact religion still has on our society.....

No-one has said they shouldn't be, so get that chip of your shoulder, chum.

Bashful Anthony has, so take your chip off your shoulder.

He absolutely has not. ippy said "I am not interested in theism" (I'm paraphrasing) and BA said "I think you are; that's why you're no here all the time". He never once said he shouldn't be interested or that he shouldn't be here.


.... time for you to read back.....

.........now you notice you're wrong...


............now you angrily tell me I am playing word games, and that it was "implied"...

[cyberman]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Even accepting your definition, atheism is not a belief system, it's just not accepting somebody else's belief system.

Yup, that's right. and...?

[Shaker]

That's not right, is it?  You do think about God, every day, and you talk about Him on here every day.  You are obsessed by Him.

For myself I do next to no thinking about the concept of gods as such. I read all the good books on the subject years ago and thought about it and after at the most fifteen seconds decided that it's all utter horseshit of the most stupendous proportions. The idea of gods is one worth taking seriously, but for a very short space of time indeed and only once. A lot of people (most?) seem to do this fairly early on in life, in the teenage years perhaps: thereafter nobody need give such patent and palpable arse gravy a moment's head-room.

No, the perennial fascination isn't with gods but in grown adults, apparently normally constituted and seemingly intelligent in other ways, who claim to take such things seriously. To believe in that which is defied by all logic, reason, evidence (and lack thereof) and common sense, lacks any unified coherent definition and is more than adequately explained by the vagaries of human psychology - now that's extremely bizarre, and endlessly interesting.

But I tell you what Bashers; why not pretend that you haven't seen this reply so that in another week or two weeks or a month or so you can ask the question yet again and still claim that no one has answered it.

[ippy]

Why shouldn't non religious people be interested in talking about ethics, or indeed the impact religion still has on our society.....

No-one has said they shouldn't be, so get that chip of your shoulder, chum.

Bashful Anthony has, so take your chip off your shoulder.

He absolutely has not. ippy said "I am not interested in theism" (I'm paraphrasing) and BA said "I think you are; that's why you're no here all the time". He never once said he shouldn't be interested or that he shouldn't be here.


.... time for you to read back.....

.........now you notice you're wrong...


............now you angrily tell me I am playing word games, and that it was "implied"...

No I'm not interested in theism but it does fascinate me the amount of people that are hook line and sinker taken in by it; now that is interesting.

Cant stop long got to have a chat with the fairies at the bottom of the garden and the feed the unicorn. 

ippy

[jeremyp]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Even accepting your definition, atheism is not a belief system, it's just not accepting somebody else's belief system.

Yup, that's right. and...?

And atheism is not believing in God, it's not  belief system.

[jeremyp]

He absolutely has not.

Hardly a day goes by when BA doesn't berate us atheists for coming on to this religion forum.

[cyberman]

  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No. If that was all then tortoises would be atheists, which is of course absurd. An atheist is someone who is aware of theism and has decided they don't buy it.

Even accepting your definition, atheism is not a belief system, it's just not accepting somebody else's belief system.

Yup, that's right. and...?

And atheism is not believing in God, it's not  belief system.

Yes I know! So..?

[cyberman]

He absolutely has not.

Hardly a day goes by when BA doesn't berate us atheists for coming on to this religion forum.

So you can easily find a quote where he says you shouldn't be here, then

[Shaker]

He absolutely has not.

Hardly a day goes by when BA doesn't berate us atheists for coming on to this religion forum.

So you can easily find a quote where he says you shouldn't be here, then

Very probably - if I were on the PC rather than my phone I should think that finding such a quote would be a simple task.

Not nearly as easy (since he's done it yet again today) as finding a BA quote asking atheists why they're discussing religion on a forum specifically designed to discuss religion, as though he hasn't asked the same question a hundred times before and has had it answered as many times but pretends that it hasn't.

[jeremyp]

And atheism is not believing in God, it's not  belief system.

Yes I know! So..?

You should trace this little subthread back to its start, then you  might remember why you were arguing with me.

[jeremyp]

You should trace this little subthread back to its start, then you  might remember why you were arguing with me.

Or to summarise the thread:

Sorry jeremy, but there are no less atheist beliefs as there religious beliefs

Wrong.  Atheism is not believing in God.  That's it.  End of story.

No.

Then round the houses and up the garden path for a bit until...

And atheism is not believing in God, it's not  belief system.

Yes I know!

So what was the point of that useless little diversion you took us on?  You picked on a minor part of one of my replies to Hope and decided to be contrary for no good reason.

[Leonard James]

He absolutely has not.

Hardly a day goes by when BA doesn't berate us atheists for coming on to this religion forum.

So you can easily find a quote where he says you shouldn't be here, then

Very probably - if I were on the PC rather than my phone I should think that finding such a quote would be a simple task.

Not nearly as easy (since he's done it yet again today) as finding a BA quote asking atheists why they're discussing religion on a forum specifically designed to discuss religion, as though he hasn't asked the same question a hundred times before and has had it answered as many times but pretends that it hasn't.

His whole life is one of pretense. He pretends that he is absolutely certain about everything concerning "God", whilst unknowingly demonstrating that he isn't.

[BashfulAnthony]

He absolutely has not.

Hardly a day goes by when BA doesn't berate us atheists for coming on to this religion forum.

So you can easily find a quote where he says you shouldn't be here, then

Very probably - if I were on the PC rather than my phone I should think that finding such a quote would be a simple task.

Not nearly as easy (since he's done it yet again today) as finding a BA quote asking atheists why they're discussing religion on a forum specifically designed to discuss religion, as though he hasn't asked the same question a hundred times before and has had it answered as many times but pretends that it hasn't.

His whole life is one of pretense. He pretends that he is absolutely certain about everything concerning "God", whilst unknowingly demonstrating that he isn't.

Good old Leonard.  In his arrogance he assumes to pot-hole my whole life.  What an idiotic comment, followed by an airy-fairy assessment of my "demonstration" of certainty.  None of it followed by any evidence to back it up.  In, short, just a cheap jibe, the one thing Leonard is good at.

[BashfulAnthony]

He absolutely has not.

Hardly a day goes by when BA doesn't berate us atheists for coming on to this religion forum.

So you can easily find a quote where he says you shouldn't be here, then

Very probably - if I were on the PC rather than my phone I should think that finding such a quote would be a simple task.

Not nearly as easy (since he's done it yet again today) as finding a BA quote asking atheists why they're discussing religion on a forum specifically designed to discuss religion, as though he hasn't asked the same question a hundred times before and has had it answered as many times but pretends that it hasn't.

I have been "answered," but not honestly.  All I get is waffle.  What is the honest reason (or reasons) atheists blather on in this forum, and others?  I'll keep asking until someone tells the truth.

[Shaker]

How do you know the answers you've received are not honest?

When did you develop these psychic abilities?

[BashfulAnthony]

How do you know the answers you've received are not honest?

When did you develop these psychic abilities?

I know you all too well, that's how!

I have always been psychic:  I'm known around these parts as "that psychic bash!" I think they said "bash!"   

[Shaker]

That's not an answer.

To know that a reply you've been given is deliberately dishonest you have to know it to be such by knowing the 'real' answer. I ask again: on what basis do you claim to know this?

[BashfulAnthony]

That's not an answer.

To know that a reply you've been given is deliberately dishonest you have to know it to be such by knowing the 'real' answer. I ask again: on what basis do you claim to know this?

No.  You are evading the issue. I'll throw it back at you.   I ask you again:  why do you post, year in and year out, asking the same old questions about theism?   Indeed, why does it bother you, as it clearly seems to judging by the volume of post on the subject, over the years?