Author Topic: Islamic intolerance  (Read 25524 times)

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2015, 10:56:27 AM »
Don't worry about it Rose, Gabriella will be along in a mo to assure you it has nothing to do with religion!
Ooh - a fan. Thanks John. Always enjoy it when people like you are too lazy to make an argument about the actual issues as I don't need to spend any time on countering your points. Makes it so much easier to present my opinion about the issues when you discuss me instead of the issues, or when you so crudely and obviously misrepresent my position.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2015, 11:01:54 AM »
Don't worry about it Rose, Gabriella will be along in a mo to assure you it has nothing to do with religion!

Except that isn't what Gabriella has ever said.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2015, 11:18:03 AM »
Report from ISIS Daily Planet

Wide spread abuse of children by honoured citizens in UK covered up by govt officials at highest level. Abuse carried out in children's homes and churches by govt ministers, priests and loved and honoured tv celebrities.


Some people try and take their children to this country, ISIS is shocked to learn.




As to the actual case, not sure we currently know enough,too much speculation.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2015, 11:22:39 AM »
G
Unfortunately you're completely right here. :o

Did you see that prog on ITV last night with EX-Jihadists?
Recorded it but haven't watched it all yet. Seems VERY interesting indeed.

N
I didn't see it when it aired but watched it with my 15 year old daughter on Catch-Up last night. I was interested to note that she asked me what "jihad" meant as it was not a term she was familiar with. Obviously she is aware of 9/11 and terrorism - apart from the images she has seen of terrorist atrocities, she has seen her father searched at the Heathrow by security whenever we travel to the US, simply because his first name is Mohamed. Heathrow security hadn't even identified him when they called out an announcement that they needed to search Mohamed and could he identify himself to the staff at the Boarding Gate.

It was an interesting programme. Lots of Muslims speaking out against extremism, which was good.

And I found it did help me understand better why some young people are drawn to extremism - e.g. because they feel unaccepted and alienated from their parents and community and the wider society that they live in - where they often experience racism - and this causes some of them to feel full of hate and powerless and insignificant, whereas the idea of fighting and dying for a cause makes them feel more powerful and like they have meaning and significance to someone.

One of the former Mujahideen on the programme said he saw a lot of poverty, starvation and death in Bosnia, and thought to himself that he did not have food or money to give these people - women and children - but he could defend them with his body and his weapons.

Apparently young Muslim men who feel alienated and are full of anger and sexual frustration, become manipulated by extremist groups using various psychological techniques, and find themselves sucked in because they are shown understanding and compassion and kindness and acceptance by the extremist group.  So the message to Muslim parents was to show understanding and acceptance towards their children and talk to them more about the struggles they face trying to fit in and be accepted by this culture rather than parents trying to rigidly enforce their own culture and not communicate openly with their children and not discuss challenging issues that make their children feel alone and isolated.       

ETA - for the avoidance of doubt,  I am not dismissing religion as a factor - I think culture includes religion because people's interpretation of religion influence their interpretation of their culture and people's interpretation of their culture influences their interpretation of their religion. 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 11:28:46 AM by Gabriella »
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2015, 11:28:43 AM »
Report from ISIS Daily Planet

Wide spread abuse of children by honoured citizens in UK covered up by govt officials at highest level. Abuse carried out in children's homes and churches by govt ministers, priests and loved and honoured tv celebrities.


Some people try and take their children to this country, ISIS is shocked to learn.




As to the actual case, not sure we currently know enough,too much speculation.

NS

Interesting, they see us as the abusers.

Where did you get the article from?

My brain. I just connected your two posts about child abuse and the report from the Mail.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2015, 11:41:46 AM »
The don't need me to give them ideas, they are there being used. They see their actions as justified, in part, by the horrific consequences of our evil society where people who have abused children can be allowed to pass laws but are incompetent to stand trial, thus letting them get away with it. Where we have churchws protecting homosexual paedophiles and then want to celebrate gay marriage. Where we sell pole dancing kits for children. The Mail comments columns are filled with people who think we live in a modern day Sodom, very few of them are logging on from Syria or Iraq.
 

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2015, 11:44:23 AM »
Rose,

I think this is part of the disconnect between the way people in this country see themselves and how this society is viewed by others. Some people here think there is justice and punishment for crime while other people think there isn't. And in the same way - ISIS face punishment - they are opposed and bombed and killed by Muslims and non-Muslims.

Part of the anger and alienation amongst members of the Muslim community, both here and abroad, seems to be about the perception that people here don't get punished - the British government can invade countries on false pretexts and not be held accountable by any court of law for the ensuing death and mayhem. Israel can use their army to steal land, kill large numbers of people, build settlements on that land in contravention of international law and not be held accountable for their actions.

On the programme Trippy mentioned about ex-Jihadists, Muslims were saying that the anger can be used in a positive way through being critical of foreign policy and through political activism in trying to hold governments accountable or the anger can be used in a negative way i.e. terrorism.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

jakswan

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2015, 11:45:53 AM »
Interesting that you chose to follow the BUT with an incredibly simplistic piece of analysis, rather than anything more challenging. I occasionally hear such simplistic approaches but incredibly rarely in comparison to more nuances replies and I hear that simplicity just as often when people say 'I condemn the killing of innoceets by a drone attack BUT it is the price caused by Islamic fundamentalism.' Actually I hear that les because we rarely present details of such deaths in the media at all.

I wouldn't add a but, the BNP are racist idiots pursuing an ideology that will promote division and a prejudiced society, they should be condemned with no 'buts'.
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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2015, 11:57:57 AM »
Interesting that you chose to follow the BUT with an incredibly simplistic piece of analysis, rather than anything more challenging. I occasionally hear such simplistic approaches but incredibly rarely in comparison to more nuances replies and I hear that simplicity just as often when people say 'I condemn the killing of innoceets by a drone attack BUT it is the price caused by Islamic fundamentalism.' Actually I hear that les because we rarely present details of such deaths in the media at all.

I wouldn't add a but, the BNP are racist idiots pursuing an ideology that will promote division and a prejudiced society, they should be condemned with no 'buts'.
I don't see the point of taking that approach. I would try to understand their arguments and views and the reasons behind their crude policies in order to come up with alternative more nuanced solutions that would be acceptable to their supporters.

Also, BNP racism can be a response to racism from minorities towards the majority community.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2015, 12:06:41 PM »
 :-*
Interesting that you chose to follow the BUT with an incredibly simplistic piece of analysis, rather than anything more challenging. I occasionally hear such simplistic approaches but incredibly rarely in comparison to more nuances replies and I hear that simplicity just as often when people say 'I condemn the killing of innoceets by a drone attack BUT it is the price caused by Islamic fundamentalism.' Actually I hear that les because we rarely present details of such deaths in the media at all.

I wouldn't add a but, the BNP are racist idiots pursuing an ideology that will promote division and a prejudiced society, they should be condemned with no 'buts'.

Then you don't really understand what people are saying when they use the word in many cases, which is effectively condemnation is meaningless. It's a mere sop to you to try and make you feel good. It won't stop the acts, indeed in a simple blanket approach may increase the alienation of people if all they see is a parade of Muslims brought on TV to intone their condemnation but not add any comments.

Taking the killing of innocents in drone attacks, I hear a lot of supporters of drones saying 'I of course don't want any innocents to die and it is hugely regretful but it is the actions of the terrorists who operate close to innocents that put them in danger and we do everything we can to avoid this tragic loss of life' - your position seems to be that as soon as they say but we can ignore anything that follows and assume that it isn't real regret.

jakswan

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2015, 12:18:51 PM »
Then you don't really understand what people are saying when they use the word in many cases, which is effectively condemnation is meaningless. It's a mere sop to you to try and make you feel good. It won't stop the acts, indeed in a simple blanket approach may increase the alienation of people if all they see is a parade of Muslims brought on TV to intone their condemnation but not add any comments.

Taking the killing of innocents in drone attacks, I hear a lot of supporters of drones saying 'I of course don't want any innocents to die and it is hugely regretful but it is the actions of the terrorists who operate close to innocents that put them in danger and we do everything we can to avoid this tragic loss of life' - your position seems to be that as soon as they say but we can ignore anything that follows and assume that it isn't real regret.

Perhaps a bad comparison, lets say a military leader ordered a drone attack that targeted innocent civilians, did it in the name of secular humanism and justified it on the same basis.

I would condemn and further go on to explain that secular humanism couldn't justify innocent civilians, no buts are needed. 

Or I could say 'but part of the anger and alienation amongst members of the secular humanist community, seems to be about the perception that Muslims don't condemn, without any buts the actions of those that carry out terrorism in the name of their religion.'
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2015, 12:25:35 PM »
Then you don't really understand what people are saying when they use the word in many cases, which is effectively condemnation is meaningless. It's a mere sop to you to try and make you feel good. It won't stop the acts, indeed in a simple blanket approach may increase the alienation of people if all they see is a parade of Muslims brought on TV to intone their condemnation but not add any comments.

Taking the killing of innocents in drone attacks, I hear a lot of supporters of drones saying 'I of course don't want any innocents to die and it is hugely regretful but it is the actions of the terrorists who operate close to innocents that put them in danger and we do everything we can to avoid this tragic loss of life' - your position seems to be that as soon as they say but we can ignore anything that follows and assume that it isn't real regret.

Perhaps a bad comparison, lets say a military leader ordered a drone attack that targeted innocent civilians, did it in the name of secular humanism and justified it on the same basis.

I would condemn and further go on to explain that secular humanism couldn't justify innocent civilians, no buts are needed. 

Or I could say 'but part of the anger and alienation amongst members of the secular humanist community, seems to be about the perception that Muslims don't condemn, without any buts the actions of those that carry out terrorism in the name of their religion.'

So if it is done in the name of Western interests and you are sitting next to the house where your friends were killed and someone says but, you are entitled on your position to ignore that as not real regret and see it as just an excuse for the West murdering your neighbour?

JP

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2015, 02:53:51 PM »
The OP was not about "extremism" but more of a general intolerance in the Islamic world, a failure to reciprocate or meet half way.
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Jack Knave

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2015, 07:13:45 PM »
The difference being that we in the west, and specifically Europe, generally do not consider religion as being necessarily a fundamental aspect of our society and treat them like any other club or society. They, however, see it as a life and death issue, as we did once many centuries ago.

Jack Knave

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2015, 07:31:29 PM »
Rose,

I think this is part of the disconnect between the way people in this country see themselves and how this society is viewed by others. Some people here think there is justice and punishment for crime while other people think there isn't. And in the same way - ISIS face punishment - they are opposed and bombed and killed by Muslims and non-Muslims.

Part of the anger and alienation amongst members of the Muslim community, both here and abroad, seems to be about the perception that people here don't get punished - the British government can invade countries on false pretexts and not be held accountable by any court of law for the ensuing death and mayhem. Israel can use their army to steal land, kill large numbers of people, build settlements on that land in contravention of international law and not be held accountable for their actions.


On the programme Trippy mentioned about ex-Jihadists, Muslims were saying that the anger can be used in a positive way through being critical of foreign policy and through political activism in trying to hold governments accountable or the anger can be used in a negative way i.e. terrorism.
Do they, or even us, expect our leaders to play fair? I think not. And this is a valid point for them to take. But I'm still a little confused why ISIS are destroying mosques etc.

The reason why the western people don't take up arms is because they have been manipulated to be emotionally like children, spoilt by the luxury of the western life style. But this is changing and it would be productive if both Muslim and Western aired out these views of the corrupt elites who are stealing from the people.

jakswan

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2015, 08:36:19 PM »
Then you don't really understand what people are saying when they use the word in many cases, which is effectively condemnation is meaningless. It's a mere sop to you to try and make you feel good. It won't stop the acts, indeed in a simple blanket approach may increase the alienation of people if all they see is a parade of Muslims brought on TV to intone their condemnation but not add any comments.

Taking the killing of innocents in drone attacks, I hear a lot of supporters of drones saying 'I of course don't want any innocents to die and it is hugely regretful but it is the actions of the terrorists who operate close to innocents that put them in danger and we do everything we can to avoid this tragic loss of life' - your position seems to be that as soon as they say but we can ignore anything that follows and assume that it isn't real regret.

Perhaps a bad comparison, lets say a military leader ordered a drone attack that targeted innocent civilians, did it in the name of secular humanism and justified it on the same basis.

I would condemn and further go on to explain that secular humanism couldn't justify innocent civilians, no buts are needed. 

Or I could say 'but part of the anger and alienation amongst members of the secular humanist community, seems to be about the perception that Muslims don't condemn, without any buts the actions of those that carry out terrorism in the name of their religion.'

So if it is done in the name of Western interests and you are sitting next to the house where your friends were killed and someone says but, you are entitled on your position to ignore that as not real regret and see it as just an excuse for the West murdering your neighbour?

No where did you get that idea from? I'd condemn it and ask how on earth the West thinks it can justify such an act.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2015, 08:38:12 PM »
Then you don't really understand what people are saying when they use the word in many cases, which is effectively condemnation is meaningless. It's a mere sop to you to try and make you feel good. It won't stop the acts, indeed in a simple blanket approach may increase the alienation of people if all they see is a parade of Muslims brought on TV to intone their condemnation but not add any comments.

Taking the killing of innocents in drone attacks, I hear a lot of supporters of drones saying 'I of course don't want any innocents to die and it is hugely regretful but it is the actions of the terrorists who operate close to innocents that put them in danger and we do everything we can to avoid this tragic loss of life' - your position seems to be that as soon as they say but we can ignore anything that follows and assume that it isn't real regret.

Perhaps a bad comparison, lets say a military leader ordered a drone attack that targeted innocent civilians, did it in the name of secular humanism and justified it on the same basis.

I would condemn and further go on to explain that secular humanism couldn't justify innocent civilians, no buts are needed. 

Or I could say 'but part of the anger and alienation amongst members of the secular humanist community, seems to be about the perception that Muslims don't condemn, without any buts the actions of those that carry out terrorism in the name of their religion.'

So if it is done in the name of Western interests and you are sitting next to the house where your friends were killed and someone says but, you are entitled on your position to ignore that as not real regret and see it as just an excuse for the West murdering your neighbour?

No where did you get that idea from? I'd condemn it and ask how on earth the West thinks it can justify such an act.

But I don't see much on here excoriating those killing innocents with  drones and what people see is that being condemned in precisely that way with a but.

trippymonkey

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2015, 08:53:08 PM »
EXCORIATING ?????
Sorry ??

Hope

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2015, 10:26:21 PM »
It's very sad 😟

I suppose they might have had an arranged marriage in the first place and were unhappy, but you read such awful things about Isis.

If I was those dads I would be going out of my mind
More related to the lad from Bradford who went out and became Britain's youngest suicide bomber, bur probably equally applicable to these women - there was an interesting comparison between the grooming of young people by paedophiles and the grooming of young people by ISIS.  IIRC it was made in an interview with an imam in Bradford on one of the BBC news programmes on Tuesday.
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dadvokat

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2015, 08:43:34 PM »
Good article by Allison Pearson in the Telegraph. The rabid socialist Islamophiles  (it's all the zionists and evil amerikees fault) might want to avoid reading the comments
lest they suffer a cardiac arrest or burst a blood vessel.

Has anyone got an ounce of sympathy for these dads even if it is proved their wives have travelled into IS territory. These evil brainwashed jihadi women have put their children at risk by taking them to a war zone. My only hope is that these families and other IS supporters are never allowed back in the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11681035/Allison-Pearson-Mothers-dont-take-their-children-to-a-war-zone-without-reason.html

john

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2015, 10:48:28 AM »
Isn't it funny how so many posters here rush to derail posts they do not like in the attempt to avoid dealing with the issue.

The question asked at the end of my OP was simply how are we to deal with a faith that does not reciprocate the respect we show to it?

I am not the only person asking this I have pasted an article by a Muslim journalist who asks the same question merely to show it is not only me who worries about this.

How did modern Islam become so intolerant?

by Yasmin Alibhai Brown

In Allah’s name, what is wrong with us Muslims? And why do we find it so hard to ask that question of ourselves? What will it take to break the heavily curtained window of denial?…

…no injustice can excuse or explain the rise of brutal Islamicists. Palestine is their cynical, moral pretence. Racism? Black Afro-Caribbean men who suffer the worst discrimination in this country don’t set up terrorist cells. Muslim foreign policy rage is questionable too. Over many decades, Western meddling in, say, Zimbabwe or Kenya has led to some of the intractable, current problems in those nations. Again, Kenyans and Zimbabwean migrants to the UK aren’t cooking carnage in pots in their kitchens.

Religion is another fig leaf used by millions of Prophet Mohamed’s followers. Islam, they rightly contend, does not sanction the killing of civilians by hobbyists or leaders. However, by focusing on what the good texts say, Muslims avoid the reality of what Muslims do. I doubt even the most virtuous imam can point this out without being subjected to threats.

And while ever alert on Islamaphobia, organisations like the Muslim Council of Britain assiduously avoid looking at the willed ignorance and barbarism within Muslim communities around the world in states controlled by Muslims.

Take this last week, when Bangladesh erupted with anger and competing protests led to five deaths. Secularists demand punishment for the Bangladeshi men who committed atrocities in the 1971 war for independence from Pakistan. Some of the perpetrators were militant Muslim militia and are defended by an alliance of powerful Islamicist parties.

In Egypt, human rights groups claim children are being detained and tortured. The government has spent £1.7m on tear gas. In Tunisia, after the assassination of the popular secular leader Chokri Belaid, Ennahda, the hardline Islamic party, takes charge. Fifty-three more died in an explosion in Syria where over 70,000 have been killed in two years.

Islamic rebels in Mali, Nigeria and elsewhere carry on their nefarious, destabilising activities. Eighty-nine Shias were killed in Pakistan, whose first leader, Muhammad Jinnah, was a Shia, as am I. They want to obliterate us there, in Afghanistan, Kashmir, Bahrain, and Iraq too, where bombs go off routinely to kill these worshippers. Other minority Muslim groups are also targeted and often murdered.

Internal and external intolerance is now Islam’s brand. Those great past Muslim civilisations famous for diversity, humanity, science, extraordinary achievements have died. Education, the arts, photographs, television, sports, even work are denounced by crazed imams online and in mosques worldwide, including the UK. In Brittain’s book, some women took on these values, and in effect, imprisoned themselves.

Polymath Ziauddin Sardar has met “countless Muslim scholars, thinkers, writers and activists” who are impatient for change and reform. That can’t happen while there is an aversion to criticism and self-criticism.

Thoughtful and honest Muslims stay silent because they fear ostracisation or inciting more racism against Muslims – both real perils. But silence now is cowardly, and collusion with the corrupters of our faith. True believers have a duty to speak out against that corruption.
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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2015, 10:53:49 AM »
I don't think we can do anything, to be honest, except support those who want to see change from within Islam itself.

trippymonkey

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2015, 02:20:35 PM »
Internal and external intolerance is now Islam’s brand. Those great past Muslim civilisations famous for diversity, humanity, science, extraordinary achievements have died. Education, the arts, photographs, television, sports, even work are denounced by crazed imams online and in mosques worldwide, including the UK. In Brittain’s book, some women took on these values, and in effect, imprisoned themselves.

Polymath Ziauddin Sardar has met “countless Muslim scholars, thinkers, writers and activists” who are impatient for change and reform. That can’t happen while there is an aversion to criticism and self-criticism.

Thoughtful and honest Muslims stay silent because they fear ostracisation or inciting more racism against Muslims – both real perils. But silence now is cowardly, and collusion with the corrupters of our faith. True believers have a duty to speak out against that corruption.

Firstly Muslims are NOT a race !!!

Secondly I feel those great civilisations were more DESPITE Islam & NOT because if it.

Thirdly If Islam, technically, is a monolithic religion where ALL Muslims are equal, although BETTER than ALL NON-Muslims, why the hell do we have so many conflicting groups in it such as Shia & Sunni etc??? WHY ?????
This attitude goes right the way back to the beginning & not a 'way in' as might be expected & has happened with, say The Bible religions. ::)

What we're getting now is the filth that has piled up for centuries being spewed out into the world, intent on taking as much OF the world as it possibly can.

Pretty sure we can all suggest remedies ?!!?!? ;) 8)

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2015, 04:26:16 PM »
It would help if people who claim that there is no self-criticism amongst Muslims actually spent time in mosques where imams are very vocal and critical of Muslim violence or actually read the statements issued by different Muslim organisations and individuals, who have publicly condemned atrocities in Muslim countries e.g. against the Shia in Pakistan and human rights abuses in various ME countries. These sensationalist generalisations about Muslims by journalists do not help all the Muslims who are speaking out against intolerance, but at least they get people discussing the issues, which is good. And if the article generates interest in the media and increases the number of Muslims who are allowed access to TV air time to publicly speak out against problems in the Muslim community - that extra attention from the media towards moderate Muslims can only be a good thing. 

Also, in terms of issues such as fasting - it might be a small issue to non-Muslims but it is very important issue to Muslims.  Not really sure how fasting goes against British values. Given that children learning self-restraint and self-discipline is a key goal of Muslim parents, it is not surprising that Muslim parents are not about to tell their children not to fast, especially if the children say they want to fast. Inexplicably the discipline of fasting and praying are much easier to do during Ramadan than in any other month so my experience is that children are enthusiastic about fasting during Ramadan.

My 10 year old is fasting today - entirely her idea - she didn't fast yesterday. Her school do not have a major problem with it and have told her she can decide if she does not want to go to the lunch hall or go outside during break as it could be hot. Not sure how this is a problem for anyone.

I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Islamic intolerance
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2015, 06:35:36 PM »
Internal and external intolerance is now Islam’s brand. Those great past Muslim civilisations famous for diversity, humanity, science, extraordinary achievements have died. Education, the arts, photographs, television, sports, even work are denounced by crazed imams online and in mosques worldwide, including the UK. In Brittain’s book, some women took on these values, and in effect, imprisoned themselves.

Polymath Ziauddin Sardar has met “countless Muslim scholars, thinkers, writers and activists” who are impatient for change and reform. That can’t happen while there is an aversion to criticism and self-criticism.

Thoughtful and honest Muslims stay silent because they fear ostracisation or inciting more racism against Muslims – both real perils. But silence now is cowardly, and collusion with the corrupters of our faith. True believers have a duty to speak out against that corruption.

Firstly Muslims are NOT a race !!!

Secondly I feel those great civilisations were more DESPITE Islam & NOT because if it.

Thirdly If Islam, technically, is a monolithic religion where ALL Muslims are equal, although BETTER than ALL NON-Muslims, why the hell do we have so many conflicting groups in it such as Shia & Sunni etc??? WHY ?????
This attitude goes right the way back to the beginning & not a 'way in' as might be expected & has happened with, say The Bible religions. ::)

What we're getting now is the filth that has piled up for centuries being spewed out into the world, intent on taking as much OF the world as it possibly can.

Pretty sure we can all suggest remedies ?!!?!? ;) 8)
That's good to know that you have remedies for extremism. What kind of workable remedies can you suggest? Because not much point suggesting remedies that don't work.

The CIA were happy to make use of Muslim intolerance for the Soviet invasion in Afghanistan and didn't seem to mind the foreign Mujahideen travelling to Afghanistan to fight and kill or die violently on the battlefield. They just don't like Muslim intolerance fighting them or their allies, which is perfectly understandable but given all the encouragement these guys received in the 1980s and the success they had fighting for a cause they believed in that brought about the downfall of a superpower, how exactly do you propose to turn back the clock to pre- Soviet invasion of Afghanistan times, so that the militant Muslims don't see military force as the solution to their issues? After all, military force does work out for many nations, which is why the defence spending of those nations is so high.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi