Animal abuse, particularly in slaughter houses.

[BashfulAnthony]

Nearly Sane has suggested that this topic might be aired, though I'm sure it has been discussed before, but possibly, not enough.

Perhaps I can start it off with these awful videos:


www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Secret-halal-slaughterhouse-film-reveals-horrific- animal-abuse.html‎

www.theguardian.com/world/video/2010/oct/07/animal-welfare-abuse-slaughterhouse

[trippymonkey]

It's bad enough being murdered in this particular way as it is ......

[trippymonkey]

Come on, Rose. You don't need to be veggie OR vegan to see it's not 'right' !!!

[Shaker]

No ... but I also think that the arguments used lose a lot of force if you're not, though. It's talking the talk but not walking the walk, surely.

[trippymonkey]

Yes & that can be the problem.
Non-veggies are in the position of enjoying meat but probably are a bit, shall we say, put off by the way we get it.

[Nearly Sane]

I previously have been bemused by my fellow omnivores who argue for humane eating of animal flesh that hardboiled for that purpose. I don't express the bemusement to convert them bit I think meat tastes better without the stench of hypocrisy. I like humane treatment of animals that I eat because they seem to taste better and be better for me but it isn't humane really.

I find the arguments for vegetarianism and veganism convincing in moral terms in an intellectual fashion but my lizard brain loves meat.

[BashfulAnthony]

BA

Are you a vegan?

Hi Rose,

I'm not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian, and have been for more than thirty years.   I am not so much anti-meat- eating, more anti-cruelty.  There is a massive amount of casual inhumane behaviour these poor animals are subjected to.  We, as a society, can get hot under the colour about the most trivial of matters, but seem unable to get roused by this daily wickedness.  It's a matter of out of sight, out of mind.  If you care to look at the many web-sites dealing with this then you need to be prepared for gruesome viewing.

[BashfulAnthony]

Early days, but not much interest so far in this topic.  It rather suggests that I am correct in thinking people are just hiding their collective heads in the sand over this issue.  If so, it is lamentable, when thousands of wretched creatures face an ugly, brutal, and friendless end.

Ghandi said: "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

[Shaker]

I have a superb book that I think you'd like Bashers - it's a book-length collection of quotes and passages on animals, the human treatment of them and humane and compassionate treatment of them. It's called The Extended Circle edited by, IIRC, Jon Wynne-Tyson. I think it's out of print, but fairly easily findable on Amazon Marketplace.

ETA: Yep - just checked and it's going for 1p [sic] on Amazon

[BashfulAnthony]

I have a superb book that I think you'd like Bashers - it's a book-length collection of quotes and passages on animals, the human treatment of them and humane and compassionate treatment of them. It's called The Extended Circle edited by, IIRC, Jon Wynne-Tyson. I think it's out of print, but fairly easily findable on Amazon Marketplace.

Thanks.
I've had a look and it is still available on Amazon.  I might try Waterstones tomorrow, on the off chance.

[Shaker]

You'll be phenomenally lucky

[BashfulAnthony]

You'll be phenomenally lucky

They might be able to get it.  I'm very reluctant to buy on-line having recently been subject to fraud on my card.

[trippymonkey]

You'll be phenomenally lucky

They might be able to get it.  I'm very reluctant to buy on-line having recently been subject to fraud on my card.

Welll You WILL give it to the wife ?!!?!?

[Hope]

Whilst not suggesting that the methods used in slaughterhouses are in any way pleasant, I wonder whether it is linked to the standards that we seem to be willing to accept - to ensure cheap food - whilst the animals are alive?  If these were better, would we not tend to treat them better at the time of their slaughter?

Mind you, I suspect that the means of slaughter are streets ahead than those used by our ancestors - spears, arrows, clubs, etc.

[Rhiannon]

I believe that many small slaughterhouses have been forced to close due to EU regulations. My cousin lives in farming country and there is a black market in home-slaughtered and butchered meat - the farmers themselves prefer to eat meat from their own animals where they know they have not had to go through the distress of transportation and waiting in large pens.

[BashfulAnthony]

You'll be phenomenally lucky

They might be able to get it.  I'm very reluctant to buy on-line having recently been subject to fraud on my card.

Welll You WILL give it to the wife ?!!?!?

If she was here, it would only be over my dead body!    

[BashfulAnthony]

I believe that many small slaughterhouses have been forced to close due to EU regulations. My cousin lives in farming country and there is a black market in home-slaughtered and butchered meat - the farmers themselves prefer to eat meat from their own animals where they know they have not had to go through the distress of transportation and waiting in large pens.

Years ago we saw a lorry-load of pigs off to the local slaughter house.. The poor creatures were sniffing through the slats at the side of the lorry, and they looked so pitiful.  They are intelligent creatures, and I  suspect they had an inkling what was happening.  So sad.

[trippymonkey]

I believe that many small slaughterhouses have been forced to close due to EU regulations. My cousin lives in farming country and there is a black market in home-slaughtered and butchered meat - the farmers themselves prefer to eat meat from their own animals where they know they have not had to go through the distress of transportation and waiting in large pens.

Oh THAT'S alright then !!!

[BashfulAnthony]

I believe that many small slaughterhouses have been forced to close due to EU regulations. My cousin lives in farming country and there is a black market in home-slaughtered and butchered meat - the farmers themselves prefer to eat meat from their own animals where they know they have not had to go through the distress of transportation and waiting in large pens.

Oh THAT'S alright then !!!

The animals know when death is near:  they smell what has gone on.  There's no nice way to kill!

[BashfulAnthony]

Shaker,

Waterstone's will get me the Wyne-Tyson book by this time next week.  So thanks for that.

[Shaker]

No problem. I think you'll enjoy it: it's the sort of dipping into book (quite substantial) that I refer back to often.

[trippymonkey]

I believe that many small slaughterhouses have been forced to close due to EU regulations. My cousin lives in farming country and there is a black market in home-slaughtered and butchered meat - the farmers themselves prefer to eat meat from their own animals where they know they have not had to go through the distress of transportation and waiting in large pens.

Oh THAT'S alright then !!!

The animals know when death is near:  they smell what has gone on.  There's no nice way to kill!

VERY TRUE !!!!! BA

[Rhiannon]

I believe that many small slaughterhouses have been forced to close due to EU regulations. My cousin lives in farming country and there is a black market in home-slaughtered and butchered meat - the farmers themselves prefer to eat meat from their own animals where they know they have not had to go through the distress of transportation and waiting in large pens.

Oh THAT'S alright then !!!

The animals know when death is near:  they smell what has gone on.  There's no nice way to kill!

You and I both eat dairy - we contribute to the slaughter of animals. Taking a pragmatic view, if people eat meat this seems yo be to be an honest way to do it - home-reared, home killed.

[Hope]

A slightly different take on the matter.  If we were eating meat, how many calves and lambs would simply be being slaughtered and thrown away?  Lambs, perhaps not many because we would simply not have sheep on the land (so hillsides and other hard-to-cultivate areas of land would be reverting to woodland); calves - they'd still be being born because we would still be using milk - I assume.

[Rhiannon]

There would be a huge outcry at the number of cattle killed to keep dairy in production - it'd be astronomically wasteful. Incidentally, most male kids never make it past a few days as there is no UK market for goat meat and limited use for adult males for breeding or as pets.

We could have a few sheep for wool and milk but again I don't think we'd stomach the waste of producing them for these and then slaughtering them - it's simply neither cost effective nor sustainable to keep non-breeding animals alive.

That's without thinking about poultry/eggs.

So I think if we were all to choose one or t'other it's a choice of omnivore or vegan really. Vegetarian couldn't work on a large scale.