Unconditional love

[Rhiannon]

I think that love is far more encompassing than some here would think.  Yes, it involves caring for others, protecting others, treating others as you would want to be treated - but it also involves discipline and punishment.  A loving parent will punish a child who breaks the boundaries - either society's ones or the family's.  But the important thing is that discipline is within a caring and protective context.  That is as much to do with unconditional love as anything else.

That's a very human perspective on love, as is your later post about restorative justice. It seems to me to arise from a need to justify excluding those you disagree with or find shameful - in a loving way of course. It gives you the right to 'punish' not only your own children but those you feel are transgressors - not just people who hurt others but blameless people who go against the supposed Christian idea of 'normal'.

Is God really so small?

[ekim]

Perhaps 'love' should be viewed as a state of being.  If it is your state of being your actions will proceed from it.  If you slip out of that state and enter a state of anger, hatred, fear, intellectual reasoning etc you will act from those.  Perhaps it is a state of being to aspire to and sustain.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

To love is to do so whatever the faults of others - and we all have plenty - and not merely love those who appeal to you personally.   I said it is not easy; but you need to at least try.

Yes - just trying to get a handle on the Christian concept of love. Can I love the mugger while I am also bashing him over the head to get him away from the pensioner? Or is love only love if you just plead with them to stop and call the police?

No, in the instance you describe the loving thing to do would be to bash the mugger. Firstly, Christianity would say that the pensioner deserves the greater compassion in that moment. Secondly, you would be potentially saving the mugger from the greater sin of taking life. Killing the mugger would be regrettable but generally it is accepted that in order to protect life sometimes lives are taken. And if the mugger survives the bang on the head he gets carted off to clink where he can't mug any more old people and maybe gets rehabilitated.

So it's fine.

I am not sure whether I could hit a complete stranger with enough force for it to be effective and still claim I love them. At least that's not my definition of love - I always thought of love as feelings of attachment and I need to have some interaction with someone before I can develop an attachment for them.

I suppose there are different types of love and it is possible to re-define love to also mean a non-attachment based recognition of another person's humanity. But that doesn't sound like loving my neighbour with all my heart and might etc. unless it means I am recognising his humanity with all my heart and might.

Bashing a mugger also doesn't seem to fit in with Paul's definition that BA provided about love not insisting on its own way.

[Rhiannon]

Well I was an Anglican, which is generally characterised by pragmatism, or it used to be. One characteristic it has is the need to defend the weak. I think in the moment Anglicanism would say do what you need to do to defend the weaker person and pick apart the theology of it later.

[floo]

The 'love', displayed by the deity, if it can be described as such, which is doubtful, is very conditional. 'Believe in me, or go to hell!'

[BashfulAnthony]

The 'love', displayed by the deity, if it can be described as such, which is doubtful, is very conditional. 'Believe in me, or go to hell!'

When, oh when, will you stop parroting that garbage?

[cyberman]

The 'love', displayed by the deity, if it can be described as such, which is doubtful, is very conditional. 'Believe in me, or go to hell!'

Where is he reported as having said that?

[Owlswing]

Gabriella,

A thought.  I am interested to know what the Qur'an says about love.  The New Testament is very specific, love being the guiding principle.  Unconditional love for your fellow man is not an explicit teaching of the Qur'an.  Or, if it is, it is not prominent.  If you are a Muslim, please suggest some verses, but please limit it to the actual Qur'an.

I don't think the Quran advocates unconditional love for your fellow man - I could be wrong but my impression from reading the Quran is that it doesn't emphasise love - it emphasises doing good deeds, being kind, merciful, humble and just - but I don't think there is any requirement for unconditional love. So people forgive others as an act of mercy or compassion or by being humble enough to be aware of their own failings because that is considered good and also out of love for Allah.

I have to say - the whole unconditional love thing doesn't really do anything for me.

May I ask why?

I like the whole unconditional love thing, but don't find it in Christianity either.

There are conditions to being saved.

If there were none, that's unconditional and it wouldn't exclude people of any faith or none.

Rose, Jesus' death has given the great gift of Redemption.  That is unconditional love in action, and all you are required to do is accept Jesus in your life.  So, no strings.

Accepting Jesus as God is a string.

Hear! Hear!

[Sassy]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

[jakswan]

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

Do you unconditionally love god? So if it asked you to kill you son aka as per Abrham you'd do exactly what was demanded of you?

I thought many Muslims love Mohamed but it is on condition he was not a dick.

[Outrider]

Unconditional love to me means loving someone without any conditions.

So no matter what your children do for example, you are there for them, without any conditions or threats. You might not approve of what they have done but you are still there for them.

Can I have that mother, mine appears to be broken

O.

[Owlswing]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

God's love is NOT NOT NOT unconditional!

It is given on the condition that you do exactly what he says or he will smite the total crap out of you!

Sassy, you don't half talk a load of shite sometimes!, No, you do it most of the time!

[Shaker]

https://goo.gl/xm0NEJ

[floo]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

Another giggle from Sass!

[Owlswing]

https://goo.gl/xm0NEJ

LOL!

[2Corrie]

Accepting Jesus as God is a string.

And a very costly string at that,  'count the cost' (luke 14:28)

[BashfulAnthony]

Accepting Jesus as God is a string.

And a very costly string at that,  'count the cost' (luke 14:28)

Jesus said: "You are my friends if you do as I command you.  It is my commandment that you love one another."

[BeRational]

Accepting Jesus as God is a string.

And a very costly string at that,  'count the cost' (luke 14:28)

Jesus said: "You are my friends if you do as I command you.  It is my commandment that you love one another."

I think Mafia bosses also make you an offer you cannot refuse.

Your God is like a Mafia boss. Do as I say and I will not torture you.

[2Corrie]

God evidently makes an offer that can be refused, as many refuse it!

[BeRational]

God evidently makes an offer that can be refused, as many refuse it!

You can refuse the Mafia boss, but what are the consequences?
He might just kill you, but you God does much much worse

[Walt Zingmatilder]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

God's love is NOT NOT NOT unconditional!

It is given on the condition that you do exactly what he says or he will smite the total crap out of you!

Sassy, you don't half talk a load of shite sometimes!, No, you do it most of the time!

And 'smite the total crap out of you' is not a load of the Brown stuff.

Jesus states that you will die ''in your own sins''.

[floo]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

God's love is NOT NOT NOT unconditional!

It is given on the condition that you do exactly what he says or he will smite the total crap out of you!

Sassy, you don't half talk a load of shite sometimes!, No, you do it most of the time!

And 'smite the total crap out of you' is not a load of the Brown stuff.

Jesus states that you will die ''in your own sins''.

Whatever that means!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

God's love is NOT NOT NOT unconditional!

It is given on the condition that you do exactly what he says or he will smite the total crap out of you!

Sassy, you don't half talk a load of shite sometimes!, No, you do it most of the time!

And 'smite the total crap out of you' is not a load of the Brown stuff.

Jesus states that you will die ''in your own sins''.

Whatever that means!

Presumably not God's sin of torturing you just because he feels like it. Presumably your own sins do that because you've never given them to God to deal with.

[BeRational]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

God's love is NOT NOT NOT unconditional!

It is given on the condition that you do exactly what he says or he will smite the total crap out of you!

Sassy, you don't half talk a load of shite sometimes!, No, you do it most of the time!

And 'smite the total crap out of you' is not a load of the Brown stuff.

Jesus states that you will die ''in your own sins''.

Whatever that means!

Presumably not God's sin of torturing you just because he feels like it. Presumably your own sins do that because you've never given them to God to deal with.

But nothing happens unless God allow it?

So he allows the torturing.

Also I thought he died and took all the sin?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

BA

It is because if you don't hold it, the belief, you are excluded.
Therefore going to heaven excludes those who don't believe the right things.
Unconditional love excludes no one.

Unconditional love includes loving God... You cannot love God whom you do not see if you do not love your brother whom you can see.

Unconditional love is given and therefore if you love God you believe what he says.

God's love is NOT NOT NOT unconditional!

It is given on the condition that you do exactly what he says or he will smite the total crap out of you!

Sassy, you don't half talk a load of shite sometimes!, No, you do it most of the time!

And 'smite the total crap out of you' is not a load of the Brown stuff.

Jesus states that you will die ''in your own sins''.

Whatever that means!

Presumably not God's sin of torturing you just because he feels like it. Presumably your own sins do that because you've never given them to God to deal with.

But nothing happens unless God allow it?

So he allows the torturing.

Also I thought he died and took all the sin?

Well, yes because he is not prepared to violate our free will.

And yes we find the removal of the sins of the world within Christianity.

Does your final thought on what His death achieved give you comfort?