Halal Meat - Should This Be Banned?

[trippymonkey]

ok

[Hope]

There are many reasons why Non-stun slaughter should be banned with the United Kingdom ranging from religious beliefs to animal welfare.

Not quite sure what religious belief-related reasons there are for banning the practice.  Furthermore, 'with the United Kingdom', what does that mean?

Regardless of the reasons, it is clear that the majority of the UK population wish it to be banned.

  Is it clear that the majority of the population wish it to be banned?

[BashfulAnthony]

It's  simple: the answer is,"Yes!"

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

If the petition genuinely was about reducing avoidable animal suffering it would also want a referendum on banning factory farming and inhumane transportation in the UK. in which case I would definitely sign it.

Since it doesn't call for a referendum on these practices, the people who drafted it seem to be indicating they are only outraged about foreign cultural causes of unnecessary animal suffering, as opposed to being concerned about the issue of unnecessary animal suffering in general.

If the majority of people in the UK vote to halt only foreign cultural practices, that's fine with me. It will be similar to if the Saudis banned foreigners consuming alcohol in their country, because they find its consumption a distasteful foreign cultural practice. Though the Saudi princes are well- known for their love of alcohol and gambling, but they tend to only partake openly in both of these when they are abroad.

[BashfulAnthony]

At least here in the UK???
Just received this on my email. What do we all think of this way of slaughter.
Do any 'meat-eaters' actually form where & how they get their meat?

https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-david-cameron-mp-ed-miliband-nigel-farage-nicola-sturgeon-natalie-bennett-nick-clegg-mp-leanne-wood-peter-robinson-we-the-people-of-the-uk-demand-that-the-government-who-ever-is-in-power-holds-an-immediate-yes-no-referendum-for-the-people?recruiter=24807721&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-md-share_petition-reason_msg

AND YES Before we get the usual pathetic, rabid screams of Islamophobia, whatever THAT is, this applies equally to Kosher, the same way in the Jewish faith.

Killing animals just for food is bad enough as it is but to let an animal endure this pain rather than just kill it outright is deplorable.
I DO know about the body releasing a kind of chemical into its bloodstream at death but.... is it worth it. Does anyone here care???
Are we once again bending over backwards to accomodate a faith so anti-western values. We've seen what can happen, with that family who've gone over to join our 'enemies' !!!

And do we know just how much of this is 'mixed in' with 'ordinary slaughtered' meats?!!?!??

Yes I AM a veggie too but that naff all to do with this...
Nick

No I don't think it should be banned.

It isn't anti western.

Mass meat production could be improved overall and the welfare of the animals slaughtered.

This might interest you.

http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/stunning.php

So a lot of Halal meat is stunned anyway.

I do think Muslims need to look at abuses and practices that are going on that might be leading to their meat being harem anyway.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/58447/halal-butcher-scandal-what-is-halal-meat-and-is-it-inhumane

But then perhaps the whole thing needs looking at, some people think stunning itself is cruel.

In the proper conditions Hallal and kosher are ok, IMO , but it's the mass meat production and resulting enviroment it's done in, that makes it inhumane, just like all the other animals slaughtered.

I don't think stunning helps  the  Enviroment the animals find themselves in.

An animal killed with a sharp knife while relaxed and unaware is probably more humane that dragging a terrified animal around a building when it can smell blood and death at every turn.

It can see the panic in its fellow creatures which adds to it.

Stunning doesn't help with that at all.

But it's what happens if you want cheap meat, which most people do.

I cannot believe the naiveté of that comment!! Of course they are aware:  they are in an assembly line of death:  they see and hear and smell what is happening.  Have you not looked at rhe video evidence available, one of which I posted?

[BashfulAnthony]

BA
EXACTLY as I said before !!!
Just go to U-tube & see any vids on slaughter houses. It'll freak you out.

Unless you're a hard faced T+++

I've seen some, and they are just gut-wrenching.. How anybody could eat halal after seeing them leaves me bewildered.     

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

G
Quite right too, agreed.
This is one of many instances of animal suffering. We don't really need to eat meat anyway !?!?!?

Rose
Halal meat isn't supposed to be stunned first. 'They' say the knives used have to be so sharp the animal doesn't really feel it as it bleeds to death. BUT, as we saw on the video footage, the animal is still conscious after this.

According to the RSPCA 90% of halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned, so your views on halal are contradicted by reality.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

At least here in the UK???
Just received this on my email. What do we all think of this way of slaughter.
Do any 'meat-eaters' actually form where & how they get their meat?

https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-david-cameron-mp-ed-miliband-nigel-farage-nicola-sturgeon-natalie-bennett-nick-clegg-mp-leanne-wood-peter-robinson-we-the-people-of-the-uk-demand-that-the-government-who-ever-is-in-power-holds-an-immediate-yes-no-referendum-for-the-people?recruiter=24807721&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-md-share_petition-reason_msg

AND YES Before we get the usual pathetic, rabid screams of Islamophobia, whatever THAT is, this applies equally to Kosher, the same way in the Jewish faith.

Killing animals just for food is bad enough as it is but to let an animal endure this pain rather than just kill it outright is deplorable.
I DO know about the body releasing a kind of chemical into its bloodstream at death but.... is it worth it. Does anyone here care???
Are we once again bending over backwards to accomodate a faith so anti-western values. We've seen what can happen, with that family who've gone over to join our 'enemies' !!!

And do we know just how much of this is 'mixed in' with 'ordinary slaughtered' meats?!!?!??

Yes I AM a veggie too but that naff all to do with this...
Nick

No I don't think it should be banned.

It isn't anti western.

Mass meat production could be improved overall and the welfare of the animals slaughtered.

This might interest you.

http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/stunning.php

So a lot of Halal meat is stunned anyway.

I do think Muslims need to look at abuses and practices that are going on that might be leading to their meat being harem anyway.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/58447/halal-butcher-scandal-what-is-halal-meat-and-is-it-inhumane

But then perhaps the whole thing needs looking at, some people think stunning itself is cruel.

In the proper conditions Hallal and kosher are ok, IMO , but it's the mass meat production and resulting enviroment it's done in, that makes it inhumane, just like all the other animals slaughtered.

I don't think stunning helps  the  Enviroment the animals find themselves in.

An animal killed with a sharp knife while relaxed and unaware is probably more humane that dragging a terrified animal around a building when it can smell blood and death at every turn.

It can see the panic in its fellow creatures which adds to it.

Stunning doesn't help with that at all.

But it's what happens if you want cheap meat, which most people do.

I cannot believe the naiveté of that comment!! Of course they are aware:  they are in an assembly line of death:  they see and hear and smell what is happening.  Have you not looked at rhe video evidence available, one of which I posted?

The same issue of animals being aware of death in the slaughter house applies to non-halal meat in this country so the petition should address that, if it is genuinely about animal welfare.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Sure - when the Mods move this thread to the General Board and open it up into a discussion of banning all factory farming and inhumane transportation of animals, I will.

[BashfulAnthony]

At least here in the UK???
Just received this on my email. What do we all think of this way of slaughter.
Do any 'meat-eaters' actually form where & how they get their meat?

https://www.change.org/p/rt-hon-david-cameron-mp-ed-miliband-nigel-farage-nicola-sturgeon-natalie-bennett-nick-clegg-mp-leanne-wood-peter-robinson-we-the-people-of-the-uk-demand-that-the-government-who-ever-is-in-power-holds-an-immediate-yes-no-referendum-for-the-people?recruiter=24807721&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-md-share_petition-reason_msg

AND YES Before we get the usual pathetic, rabid screams of Islamophobia, whatever THAT is, this applies equally to Kosher, the same way in the Jewish faith.

Killing animals just for food is bad enough as it is but to let an animal endure this pain rather than just kill it outright is deplorable.
I DO know about the body releasing a kind of chemical into its bloodstream at death but.... is it worth it. Does anyone here care???
Are we once again bending over backwards to accomodate a faith so anti-western values. We've seen what can happen, with that family who've gone over to join our 'enemies' !!!

And do we know just how much of this is 'mixed in' with 'ordinary slaughtered' meats?!!?!??

Yes I AM a veggie too but that naff all to do with this...
Nick

No I don't think it should be banned.

It isn't anti western.

Mass meat production could be improved overall and the welfare of the animals slaughtered.

This might interest you.

http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/stunning.php

So a lot of Halal meat is stunned anyway.

I do think Muslims need to look at abuses and practices that are going on that might be leading to their meat being harem anyway.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/58447/halal-butcher-scandal-what-is-halal-meat-and-is-it-inhumane

But then perhaps the whole thing needs looking at, some people think stunning itself is cruel.

In the proper conditions Hallal and kosher are ok, IMO , but it's the mass meat production and resulting enviroment it's done in, that makes it inhumane, just like all the other animals slaughtered.

I don't think stunning helps  the  Enviroment the animals find themselves in.

An animal killed with a sharp knife while relaxed and unaware is probably more humane that dragging a terrified animal around a building when it can smell blood and death at every turn.

It can see the panic in its fellow creatures which adds to it.

Stunning doesn't help with that at all.

But it's what happens if you want cheap meat, which most people do.

I cannot believe the naiveté of that comment!! Of course they are aware:  they are in an assembly line of death:  they see and hear and smell what is happening.  Have you not looked at rhe video evidence available, one of which I posted?

The same issue of animals being aware of death in the slaughter house applies to non-halal meat in this country so the petition should address that, if it is genuinely about animal welfare.

I entirely agree; but my comment was made in answer to Rose's views on ritual slaughter for halal meat.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Sure - when the Mods move this thread to the General Board and open it up into a discussion of banning all factory farming and inhumane transportation of animals, I will.

Oh STOP playing the victim all the time !! As soon as you back yourself into a corner you blame every bugger else. Typical Muslim so maybe you picked right after all !!!

That's very progressive of you to be ok with Hindus choosing Islam over Hinduism. Some of your fellow Hindus are a lot less tolerant.

[dadvokat]

Sure - when the Mods move this thread to the General Board and open it up into a discussion of banning all factory farming and inhumane transportation of animals, I will.

Oh STOP playing the victim all the time !! As soon as you back yourself into a corner you blame every bugger else. Typical Muslim so maybe you picked right after all !!!

That's very progressive of you to be ok with Hindus choosing Islam over Hinduism. Some of your fellow Hindus are a lot less tolerant.

An islamofascist talking about tolerance - oxymoron surely!!

[2Corrie]

I think at the very least it should be marked so that people can choose whether to eat it. Especially when it's hidden in prepared food.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Sure - when the Mods move this thread to the General Board and open it up into a discussion of banning all factory farming and inhumane transportation of animals, I will.

Oh STOP playing the victim all the time !! As soon as you back yourself into a corner you blame every bugger else. Typical Muslim so maybe you picked right after all !!!

What corner do you imagine that I am backed into?

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

An islamofascist talking about tolerance - oxymoron surely!!

What's an islamofascist?

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

G
As you well know there are ALL sorts within each religion. We both know some of the best people we've known through our lives have been any faith. NO faith has a monopoly on goodness, although Islam thinks it does !?!? 

People are quite free to choose their 'way' but they must be very well versed in what they're 'getting themselves into' !!!

What am I getting myself into? I have been a Muslim for over 20 years, have gone on Hajj, been to various Muslim countries - it's worked for me so far.

I haven't experienced anything bad that I would never have experienced if I had remained an atheist, and I have experienced some benefits that I didn't experience as an atheist.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I think at the very least it should be marked so that people can choose whether to eat it. Especially when it's hidden in prepared food.

Do you mean all meat that is from factory farms or from animals that have been transported humanely should be marked? Or do you mean halal meat from animals that weren't stunned should be marked, or all halal meat? Because 90% of halal is from animals that are stunned before being killed.

[BashfulAnthony]

I think at the very least it should be marked so that people can choose whether to eat it. Especially when it's hidden in prepared food.

Do you mean all meat that is from factory farms or from animals that have been transported humanely should be marked? Or do you mean halal meat from animals that weren't stunned should be marked, or all halal meat? Because 90% of halal is from animals that are stunned before being killed.

Knifed, stunned:  it's still death, so that you people can stuff your faces, without another thought.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

In which case that's a General issue, rather than restricting it to a Muslim issue by putting it on the Muslim Board.

[dadvokat]

No but the 'choice' is there.

What choice?

A bigot tends to remain a bigot no matter what religion they join, they often take that bit in with them.

An ignoramus will always remain an ignoramus eh Julie?

Btw, how's that TLC going for those Brit jihadis who have gone to join IS. I remember your solution was to offer tea and sympathy for these beheaders, murderers and rapists when they returned back to the UK. After you have smothered them with love, you can go back to knitting and woman's own. You ain't going to be a brain of Britain in the near future, are ya?

[Shaker]

This is precisely what I've always thought about people who religion - windowshop.

Converts who are looking not for the Truth, whatever THAT is, but something they understand & fits in with THEIR life & future ambitions.

By religion "windowshopping" do you mean the pick and mix approach, taking a bit from this and a bit from that and a bit from this other? Because if so, the evidence is against you - on the whole such people are the least likely to fall prey to dogmatic, narrow, intolerant ideologies and resort to violence. These are the people, you'll remember, who are habitually called wishy-washy or cafeteria Catholics or whatever, taking whichever bits of which traditions that suit them and leaving the rest. This sort of practice could be criticised on some grounds (though predominantly by one-true-wayers and single truth people), but not on the grounds that they end up as members of ISIS (or equivalent).

[2Corrie]

I think at the very least it should be marked so that people can choose whether to eat it. Especially when it's hidden in prepared food.

Do you mean all meat that is from factory farms or from animals that have been transported humanely should be marked? Or do you mean halal meat from animals that weren't stunned should be marked, or all halal meat? Because 90% of halal is from animals that are stunned before being killed.

I mean all halal meat. So that people of other religions can choose to avoid it should they wish.

[BashfulAnthony]

I think at the very least it should be marked so that people can choose whether to eat it. Especially when it's hidden in prepared food.

Do you mean all meat that is from factory farms or from animals that have been transported humanely should be marked? Or do you mean halal meat from animals that weren't stunned should be marked, or all halal meat? Because 90% of halal is from animals that are stunned before being killed.

All slaughtering should be stopped, in a civilised world.  But even if your figure of 90% stunning in Muslim slaughter houses is correct, then:  "In Islam the rules of slaughter are based on Islamic law. The animal has to be alive and healthy, a Muslim has to perform the slaughter in the appropriate ritual manner, and the animal's throat must be cut by a sharp knife severing the carotid artery, jugular vein and windpipe in a single swipe. Blood must be drained out of the carcass."  Disgraceful, barbaric, and medieval;  and unjustifiable in the 21st. century.

[BashfulAnthony]

I think at the very least it should be marked so that people can choose whether to eat it. Especially when it's hidden in prepared food.

Do you mean all meat that is from factory farms or from animals that have been transported humanely should be marked? Or do you mean halal meat from animals that weren't stunned should be marked, or all halal meat? Because 90% of halal is from animals that are stunned before being killed.

All slaughtering should be stopped, in a civilised world.  But even if your figure of 90% stunning in Muslim slaughter houses is correct, then:  "In Islam the rules of slaughter are based on Islamic law. The animal has to be alive and healthy, a Muslim has to perform the slaughter in the appropriate ritual manner, and the animal's throat must be cut by a sharp knife severing the carotid artery, jugular vein and windpipe in a single swipe. Blood must be drained out of the carcass."  Disgraceful, barbaric, and medieval;  and unjustifiable in the 21st. century.

If that was how it happened, I think it would be humane, given that the animal should have minimal suffering.

The problem is I think that it doesn't work in a 21st century scale of killing.

"In halal slaughterhouses, animals are shackled and hoisted above the ground where a slaughterman "sticks" them, cutting their throat or inserting a chest stick close to the heart."   As I said, barbaric and medieval  -  it has no place in a civilised society, and we should be ashamed to allow it to happen.

[torridon]

The concept of 'humane killing' is an oxymoron.