Halal Meat - Should This Be Banned?

[BashfulAnthony]

G
Quite right too, agreed.
This is one of many instances of animal suffering. We don't really need to eat meat anyway !?!?!?

Rose
Halal meat isn't supposed to be stunned first. 'They' say the knives used have to be so sharp the animal doesn't really feel it as it bleeds to death. BUT, as we saw on the video footage, the animal is still conscious after this.

According to the RSPCA 90% of halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned, so your views on halal are contradicted by reality.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter

"The number of animals killed in halal abattoirs without being stunned first soared in the last year, figures have revealed.
Campaigning by Muslims for traditional methods of slaughter has led to a 60 percent rise in the number of non-pain free killings, industry experts said.
Last year 2.4 million sheep and goats had their throats cut without being stunned in halal and kosher abattoirs, according to the British Veterinary Association (BVA).
In halal premium, 37 per cent of sheep and goats, 25 per cent of cattle and 16 per cent of poultry were killed without being stunned first.
For meat to be halal, the animal must be alive when its throat is cut and die from loss of blood."   BVA.

It can be up to two minutes for cattle to remain conscious after having their throats cut!  It is all so disgusting, in the extreme!

[BashfulAnthony]

The concept of 'humane killing' is an oxymoron.

Quite so!

[Shaker]

The concept of 'humane killing' is an oxymoron.

Quite so!

Not quite - the sort of euthanasia as performed on domestic pets involves killing but is humane.

Not that this is involved in mass slaughter for food and by-products, of course; just making the point that killing per se isn't inherently and automatically inhumane.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

An islamofascist talking about tolerance - oxymoron surely!!

What's an islamofascist?

It's what Dadvokat labels all Muslims.

He thinks all Muslims are extremists like Isis.

 

Interesting - I wonder if he decided that all by himself with his one brain cell or if some bigger boys had to help him come up with that name.

[BashfulAnthony]

An islamofascist talking about tolerance - oxymoron surely!!

What's an islamofascist?

It's what Dadvokat labels all Muslims.

He thinks all Muslims are extremists like Isis.

 

Interesting - I wonder if he decided that all by himself with his one brain cell or if some bigger boys had to help him come up with that name.

I heard on the BBC News earlier this week, that it could be that as many as 50% of Muslims here have at least some sympathy with Da'ish.  Interesting, if so.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I think at the very least it should be marked so that people can choose whether to eat it. Especially when it's hidden in prepared food.

Do you mean all meat that is from factory farms or from animals that have been transported humanely should be marked? Or do you mean halal meat from animals that weren't stunned should be marked, or all halal meat? Because 90% of halal is from animals that are stunned before being killed.

All slaughtering should be stopped, in a civilised world.  But even if your figure of 90% stunning in Muslim slaughter houses is correct, then:  "In Islam the rules of slaughter are based on Islamic law. The animal has to be alive and healthy, a Muslim has to perform the slaughter in the appropriate ritual manner, and the animal's throat must be cut by a sharp knife severing the carotid artery, jugular vein and windpipe in a single swipe. Blood must be drained out of the carcass."  Disgraceful, barbaric, and medieval;  and unjustifiable in the 21st. century.

I'm curious - how do you think animals are killed in non-Muslim slaughter houses? Their throats are also cut and the blood drained out of the carcass. Is it ok by you when a Christian or an atheist cuts an animal's throat and drains its blood? If not - why post this on the Muslim Board?

When animals that are carnivores kill other animals for food they also go for the jugular in order to subdue and kill their prey quickly. It's just the best spot to go for, though dogs sometimes go for an another animal's stomach and try to disembowel their prey.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

G
Quite right too, agreed.
This is one of many instances of animal suffering. We don't really need to eat meat anyway !?!?!?

Rose
Halal meat isn't supposed to be stunned first. 'They' say the knives used have to be so sharp the animal doesn't really feel it as it bleeds to death. BUT, as we saw on the video footage, the animal is still conscious after this.

According to the RSPCA 90% of halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned, so your views on halal are contradicted by reality.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter

"The number of animals killed in halal abattoirs without being stunned first soared in the last year, figures have revealed.
Campaigning by Muslims for traditional methods of slaughter has led to a 60 percent rise in the number of non-pain free killings, industry experts said.
Last year 2.4 million sheep and goats had their throats cut without being stunned in halal and kosher abattoirs, according to the British Veterinary Association (BVA).
In halal premium, 37 per cent of sheep and goats, 25 per cent of cattle and 16 per cent of poultry were killed without being stunned first.
For meat to be halal, the animal must be alive when its throat is cut and die from loss of blood."   BVA.

It can be up to two minutes for cattle to remain conscious after having their throats cut!  It is all so disgusting, in the extreme!

You forgot to copy and paste this bit BA:

Awal Foneini, certification manager of the Halal Food Authority, told The Times that the rise in non-stun killings was due to “stronger campaigning” from Muslims who wrongly believed that stunning killed animals.

Tests were needed to prove to Muslims that the animal would always recover after being stunned, he said.
He added: “If we are given the backing then we can prove to people that whatever information they have that stunning kills animals is not true.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11378667/Sharp-rise-in-halal-abattoirs-slaughtering-animals-without-stunning-them-first.html

So I think there is a solution - providing results of tests to discredit the misinformed campaign, which according to the Halal Food Authority, is based on incorrect assumptions.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

An islamofascist talking about tolerance - oxymoron surely!!

What's an islamofascist?

It's what Dadvokat labels all Muslims.

He thinks all Muslims are extremists like Isis.

 

Interesting - I wonder if he decided that all by himself with his one brain cell or if some bigger boys had to help him come up with that name.

I heard on the BBC News earlier this week, that it could be that as many as 50% of Muslims here have at least some sympathy with Da'ish.  Interesting, if so.

What is the BBC basing this estimate on? I haven't met any Muslims who sympathise with Da'ish - you do know they are slaughtering Muslims?

[BashfulAnthony]

G
Quite right too, agreed.
This is one of many instances of animal suffering. We don't really need to eat meat anyway !?!?!?

Rose
Halal meat isn't supposed to be stunned first. 'They' say the knives used have to be so sharp the animal doesn't really feel it as it bleeds to death. BUT, as we saw on the video footage, the animal is still conscious after this.

According to the RSPCA 90% of halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned, so your views on halal are contradicted by reality.

http://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter

"The number of animals killed in halal abattoirs without being stunned first soared in the last year, figures have revealed.
Campaigning by Muslims for traditional methods of slaughter has led to a 60 percent rise in the number of non-pain free killings, industry experts said.
Last year 2.4 million sheep and goats had their throats cut without being stunned in halal and kosher abattoirs, according to the British Veterinary Association (BVA).
In halal premium, 37 per cent of sheep and goats, 25 per cent of cattle and 16 per cent of poultry were killed without being stunned first.
For meat to be halal, the animal must be alive when its throat is cut and die from loss of blood."   BVA.

It can be up to two minutes for cattle to remain conscious after having their throats cut!  It is all so disgusting, in the extreme!

You forgot to copy and paste this bit BA:

Awal Foneini, certification manager of the Halal Food Authority, told The Times that the rise in non-stun killings was due to “stronger campaigning” from Muslims who wrongly believed that stunning killed animals.

Tests were needed to prove to Muslims that the animal would always recover after being stunned, he said.
He added: “If we are given the backing then we can prove to people that whatever information they have that stunning kills animals is not true.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11378667/Sharp-rise-in-halal-abattoirs-slaughtering-animals-without-stunning-them-first.html

So I think there is a solution - providing results of tests to discredit the misinformed campaign, which according to the Halal Food Authority, is based on incorrect assumptions.

Can I remind you, I am a vegetarian, and all this slaughter, whoever it is by, is anathema to me.

[BashfulAnthony]

AND?
Although I DO agree, you don't have to come over here !?!?!?

Sorry, over where?

[torridon]

Can I remind you, I am a vegetarian, and all this slaughter, whoever it is by, is anathema to me.

Respect, for that, man.

[BashfulAnthony]

OK but does that mean ALL NON-veggies are somehow lesser humans?

If it doesn't, it should!

[BashfulAnthony]

WELL WHY NOT EH???
Carries on from your maniacal Christian superiority over all other non-christians.
AND certain Christians here too.

Not really, except you perhaps!   

[trippymonkey]

WELL WHY NOT EH???
Carries on from your maniacal Christian superiority over all other non-christians.
AND certain Christians here too.

Not really, except you perhaps!   

Not a Christian but not an atheist either so ner ner to you thrrppppppp

[cyberman]

AND?
Although I DO agree, you don't have to come over here !?!?!?

Are you talking about Muslims or vegetarians?

[trippymonkey]

Veggies. But primarily HIM !!!

[BashfulAnthony]

OK but does that mean ALL NON-veggies are somehow lesser humans?

If it doesn't, it should!

So much for people being equal.

That walks a fine line on dehumanising because it says some humans are worth less.

Good grief, Rose, telling someone I think they are wrong is not de-humanising them.  That's a bizarre comment.

[cyberman]

So you think you're just as 'equal' as a NON Christian?

Do you imagine Christians think themselves to be something other than the equals of their fellow humans?

[cyberman]

Of COurse!!!
Don't you ever look at the attitudes of most near ALL the Christians just on these boards.
How can it be possible that a Christian is equal to a Muslim of a Hindu, in the eyes of Christian doctrine? Where does it say in The Bible ALL men are equal. I said ARE equal not BORN equal BTW ?!?!!??

ANY political group, and we ARE talking politics here, always feels it's better than all else's otherwise it couldn't attract as many adherents.

Whoa whoa , you've got a lot if ideas mixed in together there...

To start with your last point  - absolutely not. I belong to a political organisation - the Labour Party. I think that it's beliefs and principles are right ; but that is a million miles away from saying that I think that people who disagree are lesser people, or that we are not all equal.

About Christians - can you (this is a genuine request, I am not being difficult) quote a post for me in which a Christian has said something which seems to you to mean that we think we are something other thn the equals of others. I genuinely want to know why you think that.

As with the Labour point, believing that someone has beliefs which are wrong does not mean that you think that those people are not your equals, so pointing out a Christian saying they think someone's ideas are wrong will not serve, I think, to show that Christians think that they are superior.

If someone says something which I disagree with (like "brown rice is delicious" or "Jesus was homophobic" or "evolution never happened") then I will say so. But me saying "I think you're wrong" isn't the same as me saying "I think you are less than my equal", is it?

[cyberman]

So a child rapist & murderer is your equal, eh?

those are actions, not beliefs

[BashfulAnthony]

Of COurse!!!
Don't you ever look at the attitudes of most near ALL the Christians just on these boards.
How can it be possible that a Christian is equal to a Muslim of a Hindu, in the eyes of Christian doctrine? Where does it say in The Bible ALL men are equal. I said ARE equal not BORN equal BTW ?!?!!??

ANY political group, and we ARE talking politics here, always feels it's better than all else's otherwise it couldn't attract as many adherents.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."  Galatians, 3:28

[BashfulAnthony]

OOH GOOD Then I don't need to be a Christian to meet you in Heaven?

Quote from: trippymonkey on Today at 07:15:40 PM

    So a child rapist & murderer is your equal, eh?


those are actions, not beliefs

Beliefs become actions. The intention is IN the person.

We are all equal in the sight of God.  What we do here, in this life, does not alter that.  If someone is cruel, dishonest, or wicked, those actions define his personality, but it does not mean that God will than abandon him as "unequal."  It may require that God will make him answerable, just as an earthly father would make a recalcitrant son answerable for his actions. 

[kiwimac]

No, it should not. Regardless of what the PC brigade and the Vegans have to say.

[Shaker]

No, it should not. Regardless of what the PC brigade and the Vegans have to say.

And why not?

[cyberman]

No, it should not. Regardless of what the PC brigade and the Vegans have to say.

And why not?

Because they are a bossy minority who don't reflect public opinion, but claim to.

I have never met a vegan who claimed to reflect public opinion. Have you? how did all these strange bossy vegans of your acquaintance reconcile the idea that they reflect public opinion with the fact that most people aren't vegans?

the ones I know tend to despair of the fact that their views aren't reflected amongst the general public. I have never encountered them smugly assuming that everyone agrees with them. I don't suppose you have any examples of this happening?