Just supposing...........

[floo]

deleted

[ippy]

The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born  again'Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Floo try Mr Hilter You tube. (I have spelled Hilter correctly).

ippy

[Hope]

The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born  again'Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Floo, may I remind you that Jesus taught that there may be those who claim to be his followers who will not be recognised at the Day of Judgement - and that there may be those who don't claim this, who are. 

As such, it isn't for you or I to judge; that is for God to do.

[floo]

The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born  again'Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Floo, may I remind you that Jesus taught that there may be those who claim to be his followers who will not be recognised at the Day of Judgement - and that there may be those who don't claim this, who are. 

As such, it isn't for you or I to judge; that is for God to do.

If it exists, I have every right to judge the deity if it is as evil as the deeds attributed to it in the Bible indicate. Further more as humans we should be endeavouring to exterminate it!

[trippymonkey]

Our 'version' of God seems all too often to be just a 'larger' human !!!!

So not really a god at all. 

[floo]

Our 'version' of God seems all too often to be just a 'larger' human !!!!

So not really a god at all. 

The Biblical deity has all the worst of human characteristics and then some! It is quite possible the authors did this to make their deity very scary on the basis of, 'my god is bigger than your god!

[trippymonkey]

Well Of Course.
It's been the same old shit for millenia. Why should it be any different for them??

[2Corrie]

The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born  again'Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jonah struggled with this too.

[floo]

The crazy 'you must be 'saved', or go to hell', dogma was true. How would you, as a 'born  again'Christian, feel if someone as wicked as Hitler made a deathbed conversion, having never done anything decent in his life, yet an atheist who died trying to save others from his evil regime went to hell?

I just can't get my head around how anyone could find anything loving about a deity who created such an unfair scenario.

Jonah struggled with this too.

I sure he did trying to get out of that fish, which must have been equipped with oxygen bottles to keep him alive in its stomach! 

[trippymonkey]

There is no symbolisism or mythology in the Bible ?!!?!?

[floo]

There is no symbolisism or mythology in the Bible ?!!?!?

Most of it is fantasy/myth/legend/exaggeration/lies! IMO!

[trippymonkey]

WELL OK but from a Christian POV anyway. 
It's all supposed to be true, no? Pretty sure there'll be some who'll recognise imagery etc, though.
Whatcha mean, NOT MANY ?!!?!?!?

[Hope]

WELL OK but from a Christian POV anyway. 
It's all supposed to be true, no? Pretty sure there'll be some who'll recognise imagery etc, though.
Whatcha mean, NOT MANY ?!!?!?!?

Nick, yes there may be a few people who understand the Bible in a literalistic way - Floo, for instance, seems to revel in doing so.  However, I would suggest that they are a miniscule percentage of humanity.  All the people I know acknowledge that even the sections that purpost to be historical are also trying to engage their readers in more than a historical way.  I think the thing that amuses me most is that there are probably more non-Christians who want to believe that the Bible has to be understood literalistically, than there are Christians who believe that.

(Note my use of the term 'literalistically'.  I am of the school who believe that, to understand the Bible literally, one has to understand it in terms of the context(s) in which it was written, appreciate the literary genre of each document (or section of document) - and hence the nature of the message, understand that translating it from its original Hebrew (OT) and Koine Greek (NT) into some other language will have its complications, and have some understanding of the audience the documents were written for.

On the other hand, those who believe that it has to be understood word for word, in modern English as the words used stand in the 21st Century and through the context of 21st century society are 'literalistic' in their approach.)

[floo]

WELL OK but from a Christian POV anyway. 
It's all supposed to be true, no? Pretty sure there'll be some who'll recognise imagery etc, though.
Whatcha mean, NOT MANY ?!!?!?!?

Not all Christians are Biblical literalists by any means, I suspect those that are will be in the minority.

[cyberman]

WELL OK but from a Christian POV anyway. 
It's all supposed to be true, no? Pretty sure there'll be some who'll recognise imagery etc, though.
Whatcha mean, NOT MANY ?!!?!?!?

Not all Christians are Biblical literalists by any means, I suspect those that are will be in the minority.

Quite correct. Biblical literalism, or fundamentalism, is a relatively new movement within Christianity. Fundamentalists are a minority of Christians. They are the atheists' favourite type of course, because they are so easy to refute,

[Hope]

They are the atheists' favourite type of course, because they are so easy to refute,

Could that explain why the atheists here find it so hard to sudccessfully refute what is said by the majority of Christians here?   

[Shaker]

It's difficult to refute statements with all the definition and intellectual rigour of Bird's custard.

The vast majority of Christians the vast majority of the time don't even scruple to put forward anything substantial enough to refute.

[Hope]

It's difficult to refute statements with all the definition and intellectual rigour of Bird's custard.

Ah, that's the problem you have is it.  It might possibly help if you actually made the custard, rather than working with the powder alone.   

The vast majority of Christians the vast majority of the time don't even scruple to put forward anything substantial enough to refute.

The vast majority of Christians don't come across arguments that need any particularly substantial arguments 

[Shaker]

It's difficult to refute statements with all the definition and intellectual rigour of Bird's custard.

Ah, that's the problem you have is it.  It might possibly help if you actually made the custard, rather than working with the powder alone.   

Hardly, since custard when made up (and it does come ready-made these days) is a rather bland amorphous slop.

Oh wait, you're right; the comparison with Christian 'arguments' is even more exact than I previously thought.

[floo]

WELL OK but from a Christian POV anyway. 
It's all supposed to be true, no? Pretty sure there'll be some who'll recognise imagery etc, though.
Whatcha mean, NOT MANY ?!!?!?!?

Not all Christians are Biblical literalists by any means, I suspect those that are will be in the minority.

Quite correct. Biblical literalism, or fundamentalism, is a relatively new movement within Christianity. Fundamentalists are a minority of Christians. They are the atheists' favourite type of course, because they are so easy to refute,

Blimey we agree on something!

As has been pointed out many times their literalism is as credible as fairies at the bottom of the garden! Of course I can't say for sure there aren't fairies hiding in our flowerbeds just as I can't say for sure the deity does exist, but the probability is they don't, imo!

[Hope]

Of course I can't say for sure there aren't fairies hiding in our flowerbeds just as I can't say for sure the deity does exist, but the probability is they don't, imo!

If it's only your opinion, what gives you the right to broadcast iot like you do?  Surely you should be required to believe this only in private.   

[floo]

Of course I can't say for sure there aren't fairies hiding in our flowerbeds just as I can't say for sure the deity does exist, but the probability is they don't, imo!

If it's only your opinion, what gives you the right to broadcast iot like you do?  Surely you should be required to believe this only in private.   

Opinion based on probability, I think!

[trippymonkey]

Only in PRIVATE ?!?!!?!?!?

SO why are you lot on forums like this??

[BashfulAnthony]

It's difficult to refute statements with all the definition and intellectual rigour of Bird's custard.

Ah, that's the problem you have is it.  It might possibly help if you actually made the custard, rather than working with the powder alone.   

Hardly, since custard when made up (and it does come ready-made these days) is a rather bland amorphous slop.

Oh wait, you're right; the comparison with Christian 'arguments' is even more exact than I previously thought.

I like custard; always have.

[Hope]

Opinion based on probability, I think!

If opinion based on probability ruled, life would be vastly different to what it is, Floo.  How often have you experienced situations for which the probability has been very low?