Author Topic: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club  (Read 17456 times)

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2015, 03:06:19 PM »
Would you kill that dirty cockroach in your basement Shaker! Good grief, buying a collar and leash for it and planning to take it for walkies is just stupid! Just roll over on it dude and listen to the crunch!

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2015, 03:23:18 PM »
Moron.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2015, 03:34:01 PM »
They don't "damage" sheep:  they eat to survive.  And if it comes to damaging sheep, then look no further than humans - or weren't you aware of that?
Unfortunately, BA, they can kill for fun, as opposed as for survival.  I can think of poultry and sheep farmers who have had animals killed by foxes (sometimes even being caught on camera) yet not a one eaten.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

floo

  • Guest
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2015, 03:36:17 PM »
They don't "damage" sheep:  they eat to survive.  And if it comes to damaging sheep, then look no further than humans - or weren't you aware of that?
Unfortunately, BA, they can kill for fun, as opposed as for survival.  I can think of poultry and sheep farmers who have had animals killed by foxes (sometimes even being caught on camera) yet not a one eaten.

That happens quite often, I believe

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2015, 03:44:14 PM »
A couple years ago in London I believe, a baby was mauled by a fox and the critter bit a finger off the baby.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2015, 03:49:31 PM »
They don't "damage" sheep:  they eat to survive.  And if it comes to damaging sheep, then look no further than humans - or weren't you aware of that?
Unfortunately, BA, they can kill for fun, as opposed as for survival.  I can think of poultry and sheep farmers who have had animals killed by foxes (sometimes even being caught on camera) yet not a one eaten.



-
Agreed, Hope.
Once you've seen a lamb with its' abdomen ripped open, and obvious fox paw amarks around the hilly area where the deed was done, you, like me, would class that as 'damage'.
Foxes will kill - but not 'for fun'. If there's a glut of what they see as prey, they will kill it. They might not open the carcasse at that time, but take it and cache it if it is small enough, or leave it in the expetation of returning to it when needed. Meantime the crows and ravens do their work.
Sadly, sometimes a lamb is injured, but not fatally, and left. The sight of such a lamb which has been attacked by foxes and later harried by corvids, but is still alive, is distressing, but that's what foxes do. It's part of nature, red in tooth and claw.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 03:54:28 PM by Anchorman »
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2015, 11:17:33 PM »
Quote
uthor=Floo link=topic=10550.msg536888#msg536888 date=1436513811]
Spot on, Ro

Imo, anybody who disagrees with me is "spot-on" for hapless Floo  -  no opinion of her own, though, imo,   ;D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 07:36:24 PM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2015, 11:21:47 PM »
They don't "damage" sheep:  they eat to survive.  And if it comes to damaging sheep, then look no further than humans - or weren't you aware of that?
Unfortunately, BA, they can kill for fun, as opposed as for survival.  I can think of poultry and sheep farmers who have had animals killed by foxes (sometimes even being caught on camera) yet not a one eaten.

You are talking nonsense, and unsubstantiated nonsense. Can you quote some facts to back-up your opinion?  Foxes behave as Nature intended, and to vilify them is ignorant:  they can't help themselves.  And it's rich comment from a member of the only species that does actually kill on a massive scale, for no reason.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2015, 11:28:26 PM »

I am amazed  (why?)  by the callous indifference by some posters to the lives of other creatures we share this planet with.  The fox is one of the most abused and vilified creatures on Earth, and in actuality, all it is doing is trying to get by.  I suppose all you upright citizens will be hoping the unctuous pro fox-huters get their amendment to the anti-hunting Act passed, so they can return to the torturing and mutilation of the wretched creatures.  You are a nasty and brutish bunch.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2015, 08:41:19 AM »
Fox hunting is barbaric.
There's no two ways about it, BA.
I loathe the concept.
However, on the occasions where a hound DID get a fox, the fox was invariably ripped to shreds.
Sometimes, gamekeepers and farmers aren't so accurate when it comes to necarily shooting a fox, and the animal lives on, in agony, injured, for hours, or days, slowly starving to death.
Or chews its' leg off in the effort to rid itself of the agony.
Traps and poisons are equally flawed, with the added hazard of indiscriminately killing unrelated species.
I don't know what the answer IS, but disposal of what can be little more than vermin in the countryside can be fraught with distress.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2015, 09:24:39 AM »

I am amazed  (why?)  by the callous indifference by some posters to the lives of other creatures we share this planet with.  The fox is one of the most abused and vilified creatures on Earth, and in actuality, all it is doing is trying to get by.  I suppose all you upright citizens will be hoping the unctuous pro fox-huters get their amendment to the anti-hunting Act passed, so they can return to the torturing and mutilation of the wretched creatures.  You are a nasty and brutish bunch.

What an unpleasant, presumptuous, uninformed, and silly post.

In the first place you have assumed - on the basis of no information at all - that people who have views that differ from your own have motives that are opposed to yours. You do not know what my opinions are on fox hunting - because I have never volunteered them. You will get no brownie points from me for your characterisation of me - or of my fellow posters who have a greater understanding of "nature" than you have. Your postings show no development in understanding than that you probably acquired in Nature Study at your infant school.

The fact that you have chosen associate an understanding of the reality of life on this planet for one particular species with "the unspeakable in hot pursuit of the uneatable" is unfortunate.

We are not abusing or vilifying the fox. We are telling you what life in the wild is really like - it's not the Disney world of your sentimentality.

The fox is a carnivore and a predator. That means it kills other animals and eats them. It has an innate drive (you would say an instinct) to kill more than it immediately needs because, well, you never know, there might not be any food tomorrow.

In its ecological niche it is a very successful animal: it is at the top of its food chain. It will kill any animal that it perceives to be small or weaker than itself. Thus it will kill rats, mice, rabbits (a non-native introduced species), birds, small dogs, small cats, waterfowl, lambs, chickens, fawns, human babies ... you name it.

It has also learned that it can be commensal with homo sapiens. Homo sapiens leaves food waste in things called dustbins and elsewhere and it requires less effort to scavenge than to hunt. There are even specimens of homo sapiens that will give it food and save it the task of even scavenging!

This has resulted in foxes deciding to live in urban areas. Note: the fox has invaded cities. It has not had its natural environment taken from it, it has abandoned its natural environment. There is still plenty of countryside left for the fox - 93% of the total land mass of the UK. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096)

All of life depends on other life in order to survive and this usually means that a surviving organism has to work for its food. The higher up the food chain the more likely it is that protein will be provided in the form of meat. A top level predator is a meat-eater by definition.

This has consequences for all animals.

Are you aware that most male animals will die virgins? Only the strongest and most aggressive males will mate.

Are you aware that almost no animal will ever reach old age? As it ages it weakens, it will look for easier and easier prey, become predated itself - sometimes by its own species or contract some illness or suffer catastrophic injury.

Are you aware that bightly coloured male birds are advertising themselves as prey to raptors? So that the dull-plumaged females can get on with the business of safely producing offspring.

Nobody that has responded to your ill-informed and naive postings is callous or indifferent. You cannot see it as such, but it is your behaviour which is harming the fox.


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2015, 09:47:12 AM »
Fox hunting is barbaric.
There's no two ways about it, BA.
I loathe the concept.
However, on the occasions where a hound DID get a fox, the fox was invariably ripped to shreds.
Sometimes, gamekeepers and farmers aren't so accurate when it comes to necarily shooting a fox, and the animal lives on, in agony, injured, for hours, or days, slowly starving to death.
Or chews its' leg off in the effort to rid itself of the agony.
Traps and poisons are equally flawed, with the added hazard of indiscriminately killing unrelated species.
I don't know what the answer IS, but disposal of what can be little more than vermin in the countryside can be fraught with distress.

Completely agree with this. If the ban of fox hunting solely had animal welfare at its heart then the 'sport' of lamping would have been banned also. It's bad enough when farmers try to shoot foxes, let alone gangs in Land Rovers out for a bit of excitement.

I once read about an urban 'animal welfare group' who rounded up fixes to set them free in the countryside. A farmer woke up to find six or seven unafraid foxes in his farmyard so he shot them all.

I live somewhere that farmers generally encourage foxes because they want the rabbit numbers kept down, but I know someone who farms free-range organic geese and he can't stop every fox from getting near them. Generally his Jack Russel gets there first though. It's not something I condone, but the alternatives are no better. Yes, maybe he shouldn't farm geese, but it is his livelihood and they are as humanely kept and dispatched as possible - no need for abbatoirs -and it keeps food on the table for his kids.

If anyone is interested a well-known wetland wildlife sanctuary did find a solution to the problem of a fox that was taking the eggs of rare and protected species, according to rumour. After trapping and shooting failed it called in the local foxhounds - pre-hunt ban, obviously- not for sport, but because the hounds did the job efficiently.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2015, 09:58:52 AM »
I posted that from experience, Rhi.
The area in which I live is blessed with moorland, farmland and three shooting estates (mainly pheasant), as well as deciduous and coniferous forestation.
A paradise for wildlife, which includes foxes.
Foxes, like any well established predator, will try for the easiest prey, especially since they are rearing young.
That means domesticated fowl, and semi-domesticated sheep.
That's what they do - it's part of what makes them foxes.
But those who live off the land have to control them, and using dogs - usually terriers - to locate their earth, then either flushing them out and shooting them, or netting them and dispatching them, is fraught with difficulty, and many foxes escape, injured, to die in agony. Farmers may not have time to pursue and humanely destroy them, and employing professionals costs money which few rural farmers can afford.
That means, that, whether we like it or not, many foxes die in unspeakable, prolonged agony.
Hounds - or lurchers, if permitted, would have chased the terrified animals - and, yes, I agree that's wrong.
But at least the fox had a chance of escape, or, if caught, death was instant.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2015, 10:04:54 AM »
#72 HH, couldn't agree more. Generally here in the sticks foxes are still wild and timid, which is beautiful - I love seeing them dash through my garden but take a live-and-let-live attitude to them - unless one was clearly in agony in which case I'd get help.

However, a new neighbour has an orchard behind their property and they started feeding foxes -I believe a vixen with cubs - with a leg of lamb bought each week as well as scraps. At the same time the village school (next to the orchard) noticed a problem with foxes coming into the playground and playing field. The fox droppings became hazardous to the children as they kept treading on them and getting them on clothes etc. So the head arranged for the fox to be trapped and shot by a local farmer.

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2015, 11:17:08 AM »
Rhi

What an excellent example of the consequences of interfering with nature.
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2015, 11:27:21 AM »
HH, I must admit I do sometimes interfere with nature in that I put water and food out for birds and deliberately leave wild areas -long grass, nettles, log piles etc-  in my garden as additional habitat. But I see that as trying to put something back for those species that are very vulnerable to human activity, as well as increasing my own natural gardening helpers (I have always gardened organically).


Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2015, 11:34:12 AM »
Rhi

What an excellent example of the consequences of interfering with nature.
I know rather a lot about interfering with nature and its consequences, since the seven and a half acre field about fifteen paces from my front gate, home to umpteen species of plants, birds, insects and a family of foxes, and which used to look like this:

http://goo.gl/3a44DX

http://goo.gl/2pudFW

http://goo.gl/cz7OFv

now looks like this:

http://goo.gl/CaV31O

Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

  • Guest
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2015, 11:42:26 AM »
Which brings us rather neatly to the RSPB selling off a piece of land it was left as a wildlife haven for housing because it isn't 'interesting' enough. 20 acres is too small an area to 'rewild', apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/greenpolitics/planning/11655089/RSPB-ignores-widows-wishes-and-looks-to-sell-land-for-housing.html

floo

  • Guest
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2015, 11:45:02 AM »
Which brings us rather neatly to the RSPB selling off a piece of land it was left as a wildlife haven for housing because it isn't 'interesting' enough. 20 acres is too small an area to 'rewild', apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/greenpolitics/planning/11655089/RSPB-ignores-widows-wishes-and-looks-to-sell-land-for-housing.html

If true, that is disgusting! >:(


Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2015, 12:05:02 PM »
Jesus Christ  >:(
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2015, 02:12:35 PM »
Rhi

What an excellent example of the consequences of interfering with nature.
I know rather a lot about interfering with nature and its consequences, since the seven and a half acre field about fifteen paces from my front gate, home to umpteen species of plants, birds, insects and a family of foxes, and which used to look like this:

http://goo.gl/3a44DX

http://goo.gl/2pudFW

http://goo.gl/cz7OFv

now looks like this:

http://goo.gl/CaV31O

Yes, but you have to admit, when it is finished the development will be a wonderful environment for the mendicant foxes of BA's aquaintance.

I have no idea whether the development is essential or not. It is a pity, but that is the way of the world. However, instead of being a failed NIMBY, why can you not rejoice in a positive and creative approach to the problem which is just a few miles away from me:

http://www.heartofenglandforest.com/about-us/    ...?


Already a million trees have been planted.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:38:01 PM by Harrowby Hall »
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2015, 02:24:43 PM »
Yes, but you have to admit, when it is finished the development will be a wonderful environment for the mendicant foxes of BA's aquaintance.
As far as I'm able to tell the foxes are of a like mind with close on 100% of the local residents in preferring seven and a half acres of quiet green countryside.

Quote
I have no idea whether the development is essential or not.
To developers all developments are essential, because they make money.

Quote
It is a pity, but that is the way of the world. However, instead of being a failed NIMBY
Not a NIMBY so much as a BANANA - Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything.

Quote
why can you not rejoice in a positive and creative approach to the problem which is just a few miles away from me:

http://www.heartofenglandforest.com/about-us/

Already a million trees have been planted.
I know - one of them mine. I don't see how this modest project offsets the continuing daily rape of the natural world and its inhabitants because humans are unable to stop breeding.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:35:51 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2015, 03:21:38 PM »
You have an immigration problem old timer. You Brits are NOT over breeding. Get an education. Labour governments flooded your little island. You will become a minority in your own country one day. That actually has a good and bad side to it.

Am I wrong that the UK has strong environmental regulations? That developer would have had to jump through a lot of hoops to get approval. So we know that there were no species put at risk by that development. We also know that where you live was once a field of birds and rodents, fox and flowers and so on. But you are happy to squat where you are, fully knowing what was lost so you and those before you, could have a developed place to live.

OH MY WORLD!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7050
  • Just between you me and a monkey sitting on a rock
Re: Vicious' fox traps eight people in Cambridgeshire sports club
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2015, 03:31:39 PM »
Fox and bigger dogs like our coyotes adapt well to urban sprawl. I live close to the centre of a million plus city. In my area we have Coyote and fox. In fact the creek at the bottom of my hill in named Fox Creek. Now when the white men came to settle this area on the edge of the great plains, they pushed the grizzly bear into the mountains. But those huge creatures still visit my city every year as do the mountain lions. I do not believe in developing sensitive areas that put a species at risk but we are talking fox not humpback whales.