Children - religion the default position ?

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Prof,

Fair enough, but the article does state, preponderance of scientific evidence.

Gonnagle.

but clearly not the scientific evidence that demonstrates that kids brought up in non religious households hardly ever become religious as adults.

Clearly forgot that rather crucial piece of scientific evidence.

[Hope]

I can only speak from my own personal experience. I had the 'born again' dogma fed to me from birth, but held out against getting 'saved' until I was 11 as I wasn't ever comfortable with the idea of the deity etc. In the end the threats of hell were too scary and I caved in. It was a relief to ditch the faith by the time I was 19 when I married and moved to the UK.

Whereas my personal experience is that I never felt any pressure as a child - despite being born in to Christian family and especially being a 'son of the manse'.  In fact, throughout my childhood - both at home and school, I was encouraged to consider/question/debate all sorts of issues: political, religious, economic, moral, ethical, etc.

This might explain why, when I was 13/14, I began to investigate other world views, especially Hinduism and Buddhism.   I also dabbled in the occult.

I am not trying to disprove what Floo says, just pointing out that individual experience isn't always the best evidence if used in isolation.

[Hope]

but clearly not the scientific evidence that demonstrates that kids brought up in non religious households hardly ever become religious as adults.

Clearly forgot that rather crucial piece of scientific evidence.

Is there actually that much evidence to that effect?  After all, until very recently, how many households actually regarded themselves as 'non-religious'?  They may well have not practised any elements of faith, but census results - even in 2011 - seem to indicate a huge number of the population placing themselves within a 'religious' sphere.

[Hope]

If their notion was correct we'd see loads of kids from non religious households ending up religious as adults. But we don't.

Don't we?  Over the decades, a lot of them seem happy to self-define as 'religious' as adults when completing censuses.  It's only within the last 10 to 20 years that this has become less prevalent.

[Shaker]

Do you have any better, Shaker

Ahhhhh, your favourite! I didn't think it would be long, although I didn't think it would be that soon.

[Shaker]

If their notion was correct we'd see loads of kids from non religious households ending up religious as adults. But we don't.

Don't we?  Over the decades, a lot of them seem happy to self-define as 'religious' as adults when completing censuses.  It's only within the last 10 to 20 years that this has become less prevalent.

Ah, change for the better

Be interesting to see how things continue to improve in the coming decades.

[Leonard James]

Whereas my personal experience is that I never felt any pressure as a child - despite being born in to Christian family and especially being a 'son of the manse'. .

No doubt you weren't pressurised, but you nevertheless grew up in a Christian family. That's when the damage is done.

[Hope]

That's when the damage is done.

What damage would that be?

[floo]

Thinking the evil deity is a god of love, for starters!

[Hope]

Be interesting to see how things continue to improve in the coming decades.

I'd agree; iirc, Dave M suggested that disestablishment might see a growth in the Christian Church here in the UK.  That is something that I have heard from a number of sources over the years.  It mighrt even see a revitalised, more campaigning Church as belioevers see themselves more on the margins of society and sharing the marginalisation that so many of the generral populace feel they suffer every day.

[Hope]

Thinking the evil deity is a god of love, for starters!

But I don't believe that an evil deity is a god of love, Floo.  I never have done, and I've never been taught that.  I know that you seek to indoctrinate me and others here into that belief.

[BashfulAnthony]

Whereas my personal experience is that I never felt any pressure as a child - despite being born in to Christian family and especially being a 'son of the manse'. .

No doubt you weren't pressurised, but you nevertheless grew up in a Christian family. That's when the damage is done.

You people bleat on and on for evidence, and when a reliable source provides some, you squirm like fish in the hand, to try and avoid accepting it.   Predictable, and indicative of desperation.

"That's when the damage is done."   And that comment is purely offensive.  How dare you impugn the intelligence of millions by saying they are "damaged" in their beliefs!  There are literally millions of so-called "damaged," who are a heck of a lot brighter than you, and plenty who are infinitely more open-minded.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

You forgot to underline analytical and empirical.

Dear Prof,

Your arguments are compelling but I think you are reading far to much into the research, we are born believers, what happens in later life is open to debate.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Be interesting to see how things continue to improve in the coming decades.

I'd agree; iirc, Dave M suggested that disestablishment might see a growth in the Christian Church here in the UK.  That is something that I have heard from a number of sources over the years.  It mighrt even see a revitalised, more campaigning Church as belioevers see themselves more on the margins of society and sharing the marginalisation that so many of the generral populace feel they suffer every day.

Now that's faith for you.

[BashfulAnthony]

Be interesting to see how things continue to improve in the coming decades.

I'd agree; iirc, Dave M suggested that disestablishment might see a growth in the Christian Church here in the UK.  That is something that I have heard from a number of sources over the years.  It mighrt even see a revitalised, more campaigning Church as belioevers see themselves more on the margins of society and sharing the marginalisation that so many of the generral populace feel they suffer every day.

Now that's faith for you.

I don't think you really have any idea what that word means, in reality.

[Shaker]

You people bleat on and on for evidence, and when a reliable source provides some, you squirm like fish in the hand, to try and avoid accepting it.   Predictable, and indicative of desperation.

There's no evidence to be had here. There are a lot of claims, and even more noticeably a lot of not only untested but untestable hypotheses, but no evidence worthy of that fine word.

[Shaker]

Be interesting to see how things continue to improve in the coming decades.

I'd agree; iirc, Dave M suggested that disestablishment might see a growth in the Christian Church here in the UK.  That is something that I have heard from a number of sources over the years.  It mighrt even see a revitalised, more campaigning Church as belioevers see themselves more on the margins of society and sharing the marginalisation that so many of the generral populace feel they suffer every day.

Now that's faith for you.

I don't think you really have any idea what that word means, in reality.

The substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.

That's what you lot have to think it is, isn't it? It's in your book.

[BashfulAnthony]

Be interesting to see how things continue to improve in the coming decades.

I'd agree; iirc, Dave M suggested that disestablishment might see a growth in the Christian Church here in the UK.  That is something that I have heard from a number of sources over the years.  It mighrt even see a revitalised, more campaigning Church as belioevers see themselves more on the margins of society and sharing the marginalisation that so many of the generral populace feel they suffer every day.

Now that's faith for you.

I don't think you really have any idea what that word means, in reality.

The substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.

That's what you lot have to think it is, isn't it? It's in your book.

As I suggested,  you haven't a clue.

[Shaker]

The quote I provided isn't in your book anymore? And there was me thinking it was within that slender collection of documents which you personally haven't completely thrown into the bin because it doesn't match your self-created conception of what you think God ought to be like.

In which case, do tell as to what you personally think faith actually is.

[floo]

Thinking the evil deity is a god of love, for starters!

But I don't believe that an evil deity is a god of love, Floo.  I never have done, and I've never been taught that.  I know that you seek to indoctrinate me and others here into that belief.

How can you believe the deeds attributed to it are good?

[BashfulAnthony]

The quote I provided isn't in your book anymore? And there was me thinking it was within that slender collection of documents which you personally haven't completely thrown into the bin because it doesn't match your self-created conception of what you think God ought to be like.

In which case, do tell as to what you personally think faith actually is.

Your googled answer does nothing to explain the complexities of faith, and what it means to individuals.

I, personally, and fully, rely on the death of Christ as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. We must commit to the salvation that Jesus Christ has offered. This is saving faith for me.  The faith God requires of us, for our, salvation is belief in what the Bible says about who Jesus is and what He did for is, and fully trusting in Jesus for that salvation.

 Acts 16:31, says: "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."   That is what faith is to me.  I believe in Jesus, and what He said.

[Shaker]

Thinking the evil deity is a god of love, for starters!

But I don't believe that an evil deity is a god of love, Floo.  I never have done, and I've never been taught that.  I know that you seek to indoctrinate me and others here into that belief.

Does Floo seek to indoctrinate you and others into that belief, or does she simply state her opinion, and what is the criterion or what are the criteria you would bring to bear in distinguishing the former from the latter, please?

[BashfulAnthony]

Thinking the evil deity is a god of love, for starters!

But I don't believe that an evil deity is a god of love, Floo.  I never have done, and I've never been taught that.  I know that you seek to indoctrinate me and others here into that belief.

Does Floo seek to indoctrinate you and others into that belief, or does she simply state her opinion, and what is the criterion or what are the criteria you would bring to bear in distinguishing the former from the latter, please?

I just wonder why Floo feels the need to express her opinion so frequently, and so vehemently, and for so long.  When does a simple opinion become something more?

[floo]

Thinking the evil deity is a god of love, for starters!

But I don't believe that an evil deity is a god of love, Floo.  I never have done, and I've never been taught that.  I know that you seek to indoctrinate me and others here into that belief.

Does Floo seek to indoctrinate you and others into that belief, or does she simply state her opinion, and what is the criterion or what are the criteria you would bring to bear in distinguishing the former from the latter, please?

As we are all adults on this forum, many of us are OAPs, I wouldn't think stating ones views, as I am doing, is going to indoctrinate anyone unless they can't think for themselves!

[BeRational]

Thinking the evil deity is a god of love, for starters!

But I don't believe that an evil deity is a god of love, Floo.  I never have done, and I've never been taught that.  I know that you seek to indoctrinate me and others here into that belief.

Does Floo seek to indoctrinate you and others into that belief, or does she simply state her opinion, and what is the criterion or what are the criteria you would bring to bear in distinguishing the former from the latter, please?

I just wonder why Floo feels the need to express her opinion so frequently, and so vehemently, and for so long.  When does a simple opinion become something more?

Why do you?

Is yours something more?