Extended Sunday opening hours

[jeremyp]

Dear Shaker,

Aye he is a angry man,

Only because you keep trying to tell us what we should or shouldn't want and you keep making up stories about the collapse of civilisation to do it.

[Rhiannon]

Dear Shaker,

Aye he is a angry man,

Only because you keep trying to tell us what we should or shouldn't want and you keep making up stories about the collapse of civilisation to do it.

Not to mention making up assumptions about how nasty we are and then pretending we're the irrational ones in order to justify it.

[Gordon]

Mrs G just back from Tesco, and I asked her before going to check just how busy it was this evening. She reports that it is moderately busy and that the car park is about 2/3 full and that there seem to be the usual mix of shoppers doing nothing more unusual than 'shopping'.

That this is so on a Sunday evening, albeit that this is routine here, suggests that enough people in this small corner of civilisation don't see a problem with it - and if there are those that do, then they are perfectly free to avoid such places as Tesco whenever they want to.

[Nearly Sane]

So the wee bloke who is paid pennies, we solve his problems by buying nothing and he getting no pennies (even though he might be a she)?

[Rhiannon]

So the wee bloke who is paid pennies, we solve his problems by buying nothing and he getting no pennies (even though he might be a she)?

Well that's the problem isn't it? I know the Kenyan rose growers didn't want their roses boycotted even though they got paid a pittance in bad conditions because it was better than what they had before.

I still couldn't bring myself to buy them though.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

You are taking it personally, again!!

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

Gonners, if you don't want me to take it personally don't use my name in the argument you are making, especially in the way you just used it.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

The wee bloke is a generalisation and you know it and if you can prove to me that all supermarket goods are fair trade I will quietly sneak away with my tail between my legs.

Dear Rhiannon,

Fair enough.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Sane,

The wee bloke is a generalisation and you know it and if you can prove to me that all supermarket goods are fair trade I will quietly sneak away with my tail between my legs.

Dear Rhiannon,

Fair enough.

Gonnagle.

Does it matter? You are the one campaigning to stop him getting any money. What about longer supermarket opening makes him her worse off (since that is the case you appeared to be making)?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Gordon,

The carpark was moderately full, and Mrs G used the car.

Diesel, petrol, or maybe you have one of those gas conversions.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Nope, I am campaigning for a better way of life, and that one day of quiet reflection could be used to think how we can best help our exploited brothers oh! And sisters.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

And it was your good self who made the comment about gender.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Sane,

And it was your good self who made the comment about gender.

Gonnagle.

No, it wasn't. It was you writing about a wee bloke and he.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,
 
Fair enough.

Dear Gordon,

Did your good lady notice the state of the roads as she drove to tesco, maybe she was slightly peeved at being stuck behind a artic, bloody smelly diesel guzzlers those things.

Never mind eh!!

Anyway good night all, early start tomorrow, and if I upset anyone, it was not intentional.

Gonnagle.

[ProfessorDavey]

Wasn't able to post much yesterday as I was too busy doing all sorts of leisure stuff for me and the family.

Interesting having come back to this thread and seen the significant traffic yesterday that those who are most 'draconian' about thou shalt not in relation to enjoying a bit of Sunday shopping (BA, Vlad, Gonners) seem to have no compunction themselves about spending half the day posting on this thread. Surely sitting on a computer posting drivel to people you don't have any real relationship with is as bad if not worse than popping into a shop at 9am on a Sunday morning to pick up some essentials, so at to leave the rest of the day free to enjoy with family etc.

[Hope]

Surely sitting on a computer posting drivel to people you don't have any real relationship with is as bad if not worse than popping into a shop at 9am on a Sunday morning to pick up some essentials, so at to leave the rest of the day free to enjoy with family etc.

But popping into a shop at 9am on a Sunday morning isn't the issue, PD.  It's which shop, and whether that extended opening will help or hinder the economy.

Was listening to a programme yesterday (Radio 4?) where someone being interviewed on this subject pointed out that extended opening hours will probably not see any more money being spent overall, rather the nation's weekly expenditure will simply be spread over a a few more hours.  They couldn't see how this would help the economy, but suggested that it might increase domestic debt from its present level of about £1trillion.

[Shaker]

"Probably," "suggested" and "might" seems a flimsy basis on which to deny people's free choices. The "debate"-which-wasn't about equal marriage springs to mind once more; we had all sorts crawl out of the woodwork then suggesting what they thought probably might happen if the gays got married. Didn't stop that, won't stop this either.

[ProfessorDavey]

All the shops were shut yesterday where I am ATM.

The UK seems unique in that it is even thinking of Sunday opening let alone trading as normal.

Only the cafes/restaurants were open here.

The banks and shops  are shut at 3pm in the week and don't reopen in the evening.

I think the UK is trying to be more in line with the USA because much of Europe isn't like it. ( well the bits I've been too, off the touristy bits)

Well lets first mail the 'UK' bit here. In Scotland there are no restrictions to larger shops opening more than 6 hours on a Sunday, so you are really talking about England, Wales and NI here, not the UK.

And we are talking about legal restrictions on opening. So rather than being unique in looking to ease restrictions the UK is fairly unusual in having such restrictions. So even just in Europe there are no restrictions to Sunday opening in:

Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Ireland, Italy, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden - just as examples.

Whether or not the shops choose to open is a different matter, the issue here is whether they should be allowed to if the want to and have staff happy to work.

[ProfessorDavey]

Surely sitting on a computer posting drivel to people you don't have any real relationship with is as bad if not worse than popping into a shop at 9am on a Sunday morning to pick up some essentials, so at to leave the rest of the day free to enjoy with family etc.

But popping into a shop at 9am on a Sunday morning isn't the issue, PD.  It's which shop, and whether that extended opening will help or hinder the economy.

Why on earth should I be restricted as to which shop I can buy stuff in at 9am on a Sunday. If there are shops that want to open, there are people happy to work those hours and people who want to shop why should that be prevented?

Was listening to a programme yesterday (Radio 4?) where someone being interviewed on this subject pointed out that extended opening hours will probably not see any more money being spent overall, rather the nation's weekly expenditure will simply be spread over a a few more hours.  They couldn't see how this would help the economy, but suggested that it might increase domestic debt from its present level of about £1trillion.

Well that is a matter of opinion and one not accepted by others who think there will be a boost to the economy. But I think you are also seeing things in rather narrow terms. Even if there wasn't a greater footfall the big shops would need to be employing people in the extended hours which would provide additional jibs, additional money in people's pockets to also spend. So that might also boost the economy.

But the fundamental point here is about restriction rather than choice. If a business finds there is no business advantage to opening longer on a Sunday they will probably decide not to do so (just as many shops already do for Sunday). But that is their choice and their business decision. Currently they are banned from doing so even if there was a good business argument for them opening longer.

[ProfessorDavey]

extended opening hours will probably not see any more money being spent overall, rather the nation's weekly expenditure will simply be spread over a a few more hours.  They couldn't see how this would help the economy, but suggested that it might increase domestic debt from its present level of about £1trillion.

Bit confused here aren't you Hope. If there is no more spending why on earth would domestic debt go up. You can't have it both ways.

[Hope]

Bit confused here aren't you Hope. If there is no more spending why on earth would domestic debt go up. You can't have it both ways.

Simply reporting what this person said.  I also queried the comment.

[Hope]

So even just in Europe there are no restrictions to Sunday opening in:

Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Ireland, Italy, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden - just as examples.

Might be worth looking at the political history of 11 of these - all ex-Warsaw Pact countries.  How many of the old 'Western European' countries have some form of restriction? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_shopping#Europe

[Shaker]

What's that got to do with it? How do you explain the other six?

[Rhiannon]

It's interesting that in Ireland, generally a country characterised by its Christianity, that the shops are allowed to open pretty much as they please and have done for years. Tesco open 24/7 and most shops in Dublin open on Sundays.

[Udayana]

Strangely, Sunday opening is a condition of the new Greek bailout. Someone must have plans to make money from it - I suspect it will probably to be transferred directly from Greece to Germany - which mostly doesn't have Sunday opening