Extended Sunday opening hours

[Hope]

Apparently, in his budget tomorrow, George Osborne is going to give elected Mayors and councils in England and Wales the option of allowing the larger stores - currently restricted to 6 hours - to open for longer on a Sunday.

Putting any religious concerns to one side, do folk believe that this will boost the economy, or will it simply transfer monies from smaller shops, currently allowed to open all day on a Sunday, to the larger stores - and hence, in time, do more damage to the economies of many local places than boosting them?

[Gordon]

I'm always amazed that this is an issue at all in England & Wales. We've had none of these restrictions for years now and it isn't even an issue: just routine.

I'd imagine that any employment issues have long since been sorted, and the large supermarkets that are constrained south of the border operate here too - so they have the practical experience already.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Apparently, in his budget tomorrow, George Osborne is going to give elected Mayors and councils in England and Wales the option of allowing the larger stores - currently restricted to 6 hours - to open for longer on a Sunday.

Putting any religious concerns to one side, do folk believe that this will boost the economy, or will it simply transfer monies from smaller shops, currently allowed to open all day on a Sunday, to the larger stores - and hence, in time, do more damage to the economies of many local places than boosting them?

It's going to cause lots of animosity and leave local officials subject to pressure from big concerns and I think we know what that spells.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm always amazed that this is an issue at all in England & Wales. We've had none of these restrictions for years now and it isn't even an issue: just routine.

I'd imagine that any employment issues have long since been sorted, and the large supermarkets that are constrained south of the border operate here too - so they have the practical experience already.

If local shopkeepers have to work for supermarkets the taxpayers will have to make up the wages.

[Gordon]

I'm always amazed that this is an issue at all in England & Wales. We've had none of these restrictions for years now and it isn't even an issue: just routine.

I'd imagine that any employment issues have long since been sorted, and the large supermarkets that are constrained south of the border operate here too - so they have the practical experience already.

If local shopkeepers have to work for supermarkets the taxpayers will have to make up the wages.

No idea what this means, Vlad - can you translate?

[Anchorman]

I'm always amazed that this is an issue at all in England & Wales. We've had none of these restrictions for years now and it isn't even an issue: just routine.

I'd imagine that any employment issues have long since been sorted, and the large supermarkets that are constrained south of the border operate here too - so they have the practical experience already.

..........does not apply to Lewis.....(note to English readers....the island, not the shop....)

[Hope]

I'm always amazed that this is an issue at all in England & Wales. We've had none of these restrictions for years now and it isn't even an issue: just routine.

I'd imagine that any employment issues have long since been sorted, and the large supermarkets that are constrained south of the border operate here too - so they have the practical experience already.

I think the issue is not whether the employment issues have been sorted, but whether the large stores will take away more of the small shops trade making them even less viable economically, thus creating unemployment, Gordon. 

[Shaker]

Putting any religious concerns to one side ...

There aren't any. If you don't want to shop, don't. It's not compulsory.

[Anchorman]

Putting any religious concerns to one side ...

There aren't any. If you don't want to shop, don't. It's not compulsory.

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There are no religious concerns (except in the Western Isles) in Scotland.
Major supermarkets have clauses in contracts which allow those who wish to be exempt from part or full time work on a Sunday to attend church, should they wish to do so.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Putting any religious concerns to one side ...

There aren't any. If you don't want to shop, don't. It's not compulsory.

What about people who don't want to work on a sunday?

[Shaker]

What of them?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Shaker,

No, sorry it is stupid humans we are talking about, the shops open, let's go shopping, hey kids let's go to the park, no Dad Tesco is open, let's go and buy more shit we don't need.

Consumerism rules OK!!

Bloody Tories, anti Christian, anti British

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What of them?

They should have the right not to protected in Law.

[Hope]

Shaker, I wanted to see what people feel from an economic perspective.  Do they think that such a move will actually do what the Chancellor obviously hopes it will?  Perhaps you have no opinion in this respect?

[jeremyp]

Major supermarkets have clauses in contracts which allow those who wish to be exempt from part or full time work on a Sunday to attend church, should they wish to do so.

Isn't that illegal or do the same clauses also protect Muslims and Jews who want to attend services on different days of the week?

[jeremyp]

I wanted to see what people feel from an economic perspective.  Do they think that such a move will actually do what the Chancellor obviously hopes it will?  Perhaps you have no opinion in this respect?

Our Scottish friends have had unrestricted Sunday opening for ages.  What do they think?

[Shaker]

Putting any religious concerns to one side ...

There aren't any. If you don't want to shop, don't. It's not compulsory.

There are such concerns, Shaker - currently very few people have their right not to work on a Sunday protected in law.

Since when has that been a religious concern?

[Owlswing]

Putting any religious concerns to one side ...

There aren't any. If you don't want to shop, don't. It's not compulsory.

There are such concerns, Shaker - currently very few people have their right not to work on a Sunday protected in law.  However, unlike you who seems to assume that any debate on such an issue has to have religious overtones, I wanted to see what people feel from an economic perspective.  Do they think that such a move will actually do what the Chancellor obviously hopes it will?  Perhaps you have no opinion in this respect?

Of course it has "religious overtones"!

The entire morass of Sunday trading laws was to ensure attendance at church and every attempt to modernise the Sunday trading laws has foundered upon the rock of the unelected C of E Bishops and their croneies in ther House of Lords.

Of the rubbish enshrined in the Sunday trading laws the biggest pile was the absurdity of the fact that it was, maybe still is, illegal to sell or buy, I'm not sure which, a Bible on a Sunday!

I'm Pagan and I was asked to inform HR of which days I required off in order to attend any religious events so that the necessary arrangements could be made.

The Entertainer, a children's toy shop, for years refused to take on any member of staff who was anything other than Christian.

The Sunday trading laws, in our now "multicuiltural society" are an irrelevant anachronism.

[Gordon]

I wanted to see what people feel from an economic perspective.  Do they think that such a move will actually do what the Chancellor obviously hopes it will?  Perhaps you have no opinion in this respect?

Our Scottish friends have had unrestricted Sunday opening for ages.  What do they think?

We wonder what the fuss is all about south of the border since the fact that the large supermarkets are open until 10pm on Sundays (apart from weekends that involve Xmas/New Year) - and apart from those that are open 24 hours a day, such as a couple of Asdas that are within a 10 minute drive away.

It has been this way for years here: it is routine and I've yet to see a single frightened horse roaming the streets after 4pm on Sunday afternoons. Since what has happened in Scotland provides a practical example, and where the large supermarket chains here are the same ones that operate in England & Wales I'd imagine that the employment arrangements here would be the basis for this elsewhere.

The 'Sunday is special' brigade presumably insist that their version of 'special' is sacrosanct. Perhaps it is a cultural thing that we in Scotland are simply less bothered about.

[Hope]

The 'Sunday is special' brigade presumably insist that their version of 'special' is sacrosanct. Perhaps it is a cultural thing that we in Scotland are simply less bothered about.

Gordon, as I've stated several times, this thread is about economics and not whether or not Sunday is special.  I realise that you and a couple of other posters hijacked it pretty early on (did you do this so that the real issue I raised shouldn't be discussed), but perhaps you could share the economic experiences of Scotland. 

Did the fact that large stores were allowed to open far longer on a Sunday in Scotland than in England have any impact on the smaller, often independent traders that make up many local high streets in Scotland?

[Hope]

The Entertainer, a children's toy shop, for years refused to take on any member of staff who was anything other than Christian.

Wrong.  I know the owner of said chain, and he has made it clear that this is an urban myth.  What he has done is refuse to open his shops on a Sunday. 

But that is irrelevant to the question I posed in the OP which was, in summary, 'Will allowing larger stores and chains to open for longer on a Sunday, on the assumption that it will boost the economy, have a negative effect on the smaller, sometimes independent stores that are currently allowed to open till late on a Sunday?"

[Hope]

Putting any religious concerns to one side ...

There aren't any. If you don't want to shop, don't. It's not compulsory.

There are such concerns, Shaker - currently very few people have their right not to work on a Sunday protected in law.

Since when has that been a religious concern?

Since the early days of Trade Unionism, much of which was instigated by Christians in association with others like the Chartists.  However, as I've pointed out, that isn't the focus of this thread.  Have you tried to avoid the thread topic because you fear that this measure will hve a detrimental effect on the economies of many high streets, but don't want to be seen opposing something that you believe riles the Christians here?

[Gordon]

The 'Sunday is special' brigade presumably insist that their version of 'special' is sacrosanct. Perhaps it is a cultural thing that we in Scotland are simply less bothered about.

Gordon, as I've stated several times, this thread is about economics and not whether or not Sunday is special.  I realise that you and a couple of other posters hijacked it pretty early on (did you do this so that the real issue I raised shouldn't be discussed), but perhaps you could share the economic experiences of Scotland. 

Did the fact that large stores were allowed to open far longer on a Sunday in Scotland than in England have any impact on the smaller, often independent traders that make up many local high streets in Scotland?

No idea, since the current situation is now so well established here that it isn't live issue anymore - indeed I can't ever recall it being much of an issue to start with excepting in places like Lewis, as Jim noted.

I'd have thought thought that perhaps those in England & Wales who have concerns about small shops should look into what happened here.

[Hope]

Please note that I have asked the moderators to split all the posts that are trying to discuss the religious aspect of the proposal onto a separate thread - I've suggested a title that they might use.

Please use this thread only to discuss whether the Chancellor's claim that extending the hours that larger stores can trade will boost the economy is realistic, or whether it could damage the trading opportunities of smaller, sometimes independent traders, and potentially be bad for the economy.

[Anchorman]

Major supermarkets have clauses in contracts which allow those who wish to be exempt from part or full time work on a Sunday to attend church, should they wish to do so.

Isn't that illegal or do the same clauses also protect Muslims and Jews who want to attend services on different days of the week?

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Well, having visited my local Tesco this morning, I spoke with a Moslem checkout girl (who happens to be a member of a local SNP branch). She said she had the option of not working on a Friday, and using that as one of her two days a week off. Does that help?