Extended Sunday opening hours

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Prof,

Oh! I'am a fundie now, wonder if TW has a badge, anyway I am willing to concede that the argument regarding is it good for the economy and will it affect small business, then yes it seems that it will not have a detrimental effect.

But is it good for the country, good for the planet, is it morally good, then no, unless you have a convincing argument to persuade me otherwise.

Gonnagle.

What you are arguing for is a rethink about consumerism full stop. Extending Sunday trading in England and Wales doesn't particularly impact that.

So the answer to getting less consumerism is........ a bit more consumerism.
That's like giving an alcoholic a hair of the dog or one for the road.

If you want to argue that allowing Westgate and Bluewater to open longer encourages consumerism, I'll listen. But this conversation has focussed on the need to protect small shops (which are very often stuffed with pointless manufactured crap) against supermarkets, which generally sell food. There are all kinds of problems that supermarkets could do with addressing, but that doesn't make them temples of rampant consumerism, just places to buy stuff to eat.

No several supermarkets retail electrical goods, hardware, clothing in fact anything they would sell during the week.

Not all supermarkets do. See my post above. They are not shopping destinations in the same way that the big malls are and the current practice is indicating that the gigantic superstores are a thing of the past as they increasingly need to sub-let space to other retailers or for other uses (eg gym, medical centres etc)

I have at least 7 supermarkets selling a range of electrical, hardware, clothing, services, within 15 minutes drive. And that doesn't include up to six retail parks open in that range.....and I live in a village. So I think you are minimising the problem.
So I don't recognise the picture you are painting.

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Prof,

Oh! I'am a fundie now, wonder if TW has a badge, anyway I am willing to concede that the argument regarding is it good for the economy and will it affect small business, then yes it seems that it will not have a detrimental effect.

But is it good for the country, good for the planet, is it morally good, then no, unless you have a convincing argument to persuade me otherwise.

Gonnagle.

What you are arguing for is a rethink about consumerism full stop. Extending Sunday trading in England and Wales doesn't particularly impact that.

So the answer to getting less consumerism is........ a bit more consumerism.
That's like giving an alcoholic a hair of the dog or one for the road.

If you want to argue that allowing Westgate and Bluewater to open longer encourages consumerism, I'll listen. But this conversation has focussed on the need to protect small shops (which are very often stuffed with pointless manufactured crap) against supermarkets, which generally sell food. There are all kinds of problems that supermarkets could do with addressing, but that doesn't make them temples of rampant consumerism, just places to buy stuff to eat.

No several supermarkets retail electrical goods, hardware, clothing in fact anything they would sell during the week.

Not all supermarkets do. See my post above. They are not shopping destinations in the same way that the big malls are and the current practice is indicating that the gigantic superstores are a thing of the past as they increasingly need to sub-let space to other retailers or for other uses (eg gym, medical centres etc)

I have at least 7 supermarkets selling a range of electrical, hardware, clothing, services, within 15 minutes drive. And that doesn't include up to six retail parks open in that range.....and I live in a village. So I think you are minimising the problem.
So I don't recognise the picture you are painting.

But their being open for a small number of additional hours on one day a week (when lets face it competing shops currently aren't able to open either as electrical retailers and clothes shops tend to be too large to open unrestricted hours on a Sunday) isn't actually going to alter the situation.

Of course much more problematic to small retailers - e.g. electrical retailers is that people pop in to see the products, get the details and then buy it on line for considerably less.

[Hope]

The one thing I can't get is decent fresh food early on a Sunday morning.

I live in something between a village and a town, and we can get more than enough fresh food from 7am of a Sunday morning. In fact, the food that is available in supermarkets from 10am is generally less fresh than we can but from the ordinary shops from 7 or 8 am.

[Hope]

Of course much more problematic to small retailers - e.g. electrical retailers is that people pop in to see the products, get the details and then buy it on line for considerably less.

I suspect that that is as much a problem for the supermakets as it is for the independent, and possibly why they are so keen to open for longer on a Sunday.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No several supermarkets retail electrical goods, hardware, clothing in fact anything they would sell during the week.

Good - that is the point of having no ST restrictions: when Mrs G goes to Tesco at 7ish this evening one item on the list is a pair of 'in-ear' headphones.

Why should I be restricted to what I buy on Sunday evenings (apart from alcohol after 10pm) - wait a minute: I'm not, but you are Vlad.

I will excuse Mrs G her in ear headphones......I think they are an absolute necessity if sharing a house with a committed antitheist.

Gordon, Its need vs necessity. We need amongst other things to cut down over consumption.
It's saving Vs spending. You can't deny there is a problem with debt etc.

I suspect spending is a bit of an addiction as it is with many people.

I'm afraid your ability to part with your hard earned/ability to be seen coming on a sunday evening doesn't cut any ice with me.

[Gordon]

I have at least 7 supermarkets selling a range of electrical, hardware, clothing, services, within 15 minutes drive. And that doesn't include up to six retail parks open in that range.....and I live in a village. So I think you are minimising the problem.
So I don't recognise the picture you are painting.

So what? If they are open then they are free to trade whatever it is they sell (excepting probably alcohol if separate restrictions apply).

What problem?. There are three large supermarkets within 5 minutes drive from my front door that sell clothing, electrical, books & magazines, DIY stuff and all are open until 10pm this evening - after all, the range of goods in these places sell is rather the point of using them in the first place!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Vlad,

I Love your big words, but yes a time for reflection.

Dear Rhiannon,

Fresh produce!! Do you hear yourself!! I know that you are not stupid and you know what it entails to put that fresh produce on your table.

Gonnagle.

Mr G, thanks for your continued support and may I congratulate you on your magnificent stance on this thread.

[Shaker]

Of course much more problematic to small retailers - e.g. electrical retailers is that people pop in to see the products, get the details and then buy it on line for considerably less.

Until about 5 or 6 years ago on one of the retail parks nearby there was a gigantic Borders bookshop - a fantastic shop, colossal, cafe upstairs, sold music too. I spent uncountable hours in there.

Unfortunately for the Borders corporation, their books were to my mind ridiculously over-priced, so I was spending my time browsing, writing down the author/title, going online when I got home and buying the books on a certain well-known internet store for a fraction of the cost - mere pennies a lot of the time. The store closed down one Sunday, no doubt helped along in part by me and countless others doing that very thing.

[Gordon]

I will excuse Mrs G her in ear headphones......I think they are an absolute necessity if sharing a house with a committed antitheist.

Gordon, Its need vs necessity. We need amongst other things to cut down over consumption.
It's saving Vs spending. You can't deny there is a problem with debt etc.

I suspect spending is a bit of an addiction as it is with many people.

I'm afraid your ability to part with your hard earned/ability to be seen coming on a sunday evening doesn't cut any ice with me.

Fine - you spend Sunday your way, and at least have the decency to allow others the same option. 

[Shaker]

Fine - you spend Sunday your way, and at least have the decency to allow others the same option.

That's not an option for the antis; you have to spend Sunday the way they think you should, reflecting and nationally renewing.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I have at least 7 supermarkets selling a range of electrical, hardware, clothing, services, within 15 minutes drive. And that doesn't include up to six retail parks open in that range.....and I live in a village. So I think you are minimising the problem.
So I don't recognise the picture you are painting.

So what? If they are open then they are free to trade whatever it is they sell (excepting probably alcohol if separate restrictions apply).

What problem?. !

see reply 482 and replies passim.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Gordon,

What!! Hello!! I am restricted to when I can and cannot buy booze!! Who do I write to I want to buy my booze 24/7.

What about it Prof and Rhiannon, 24/7 booze, I want to buy my booze whenever I want, how dare those pesky Christians curtail my alcoholic intake.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Quite!

[Shaker]

One of the implications of Osborne's proposal that no one has picked up on yet is that power to extend Sunday trading hours will be devolved to local authorities, meaning in principle that there could be different opening hours in Southampton than Salford - or, to make the comparison even more acute, in Derby as opposed to Nottingham just a few miles away.

I strongly suspect that those local authorities which decide to stick with the status quo will not take long about changing their minds.

[Gordon]

Dear Gordon,

What!! Hello!! I am restricted to when I can and cannot buy booze!! Who do I write to I want to buy my booze 24/7.

What about it Prof and Rhiannon, 24/7 booze, I want to buy my booze whenever I want, how dare those pesky Christians curtail my alcoholic intake.

Gonnagle.

I agree - it is totally nuts that I can't buy a bottle of anything decent at 9.59am but I can 60 seconds later: an arbitrary and silly restriction that we can thank the Scottish Parliament for.

Pointless restrictions are exactly that - pointlessly restrictive.



 

[Shaker]

Dear Gordon,

What!! Hello!! I am restricted to when I can and cannot buy booze!! Who do I write to I want to buy my booze 24/7.

What about it Prof and Rhiannon, 24/7 booze, I want to buy my booze whenever I want, how dare those pesky Christians curtail my alcoholic intake.

Gonnagle.

I agree - it is totally nuts that I can't buy a bottle of anything decent at 9.59am but I can 60 seconds later: an arbitrary and silly restriction that we can thank the Scottish Parliament for.

Pointless restrictions are exactly that - pointlessly restrictive.

I was going to use that very same example, Gordon.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I will excuse Mrs G her in ear headphones......I think they are an absolute necessity if sharing a house with a committed antitheist.

Gordon, Its need vs necessity. We need amongst other things to cut down over consumption.
It's saving Vs spending. You can't deny there is a problem with debt etc.

I suspect spending is a bit of an addiction as it is with many people.

I'm afraid your ability to part with your hard earned/ability to be seen coming on a sunday evening doesn't cut any ice with me.

Fine - you spend Sunday your way, and at least have the decency to allow others the same option.

I can almost enjoy the Sunday I want but not for much longer I fear. ''ADHD Nation'' will see to that.

[Rhiannon]

Dear Vlad,

I Love your big words, but yes a time for reflection.

Dear Rhiannon,

Fresh produce!! Do you hear yourself!! I know that you are not stupid and you know what it entails to put that fresh produce on your table.

Gonnagle.

So what should I do? Only buy canned, stuff in packets?

Being able to buy fresh produce does not mean that I want to or will do - no Sunday shopping in the Rhi household today. But it is riduculous that I can't buy fresh bread but can go on-line and buy any amount of knock-off plastic sweatshop tat directly from China and get it shipped to my door. I've even got an Amazon delivery coming today (before you get on your high horse about that, it's eco-washing stuff we need because of allergies and can't get locally, but it could equally be a carful of pointless crap).

[BashfulAnthony]

Dear Gordon,

What!! Hello!! I am restricted to when I can and cannot buy booze!! Who do I write to I want to buy my booze 24/7.

What about it Prof and Rhiannon, 24/7 booze, I want to buy my booze whenever I want, how dare those pesky Christians curtail my alcoholic intake.

Gonnagle.

The sale of booze isn't affected.  You can buy is a-plenty (and rot your guts!) from any small shop.  You could even buy it a day or two in advance, eh?  I realise, of course, that you are tongue in cheek, but there are those who actually present that non-argument.

[Rhiannon]

I will excuse Mrs G her in ear headphones......I think they are an absolute necessity if sharing a house with a committed antitheist.

Gordon, Its need vs necessity. We need amongst other things to cut down over consumption.
It's saving Vs spending. You can't deny there is a problem with debt etc.

I suspect spending is a bit of an addiction as it is with many people.

I'm afraid your ability to part with your hard earned/ability to be seen coming on a sunday evening doesn't cut any ice with me.

Fine - you spend Sunday your way, and at least have the decency to allow others the same option.

I can almost enjoy the Sunday I want but not for much longer I fear. ''ADHD Nation'' will see to that.

What about your seeking to interfere with the Sundays of others? How does knowing that Tesco is open ruin your day? Why is it only about what you want?

[Gordon]

I will excuse Mrs G her in ear headphones......I think they are an absolute necessity if sharing a house with a committed antitheist.

Gordon, Its need vs necessity. We need amongst other things to cut down over consumption.
It's saving Vs spending. You can't deny there is a problem with debt etc.

I suspect spending is a bit of an addiction as it is with many people.

I'm afraid your ability to part with your hard earned/ability to be seen coming on a sunday evening doesn't cut any ice with me.

Fine - you spend Sunday your way, and at least have the decency to allow others the same option.

I can almost enjoy the Sunday I want but not for much longer I fear. ''ADHD Nation'' will see to that.

How - are there there likely to be roaming retail press-gangs where you are forcing you to spend money in supermarkets on a Sunday afternoon if ST restrictions are binned?

[BashfulAnthony]

I will excuse Mrs G her in ear headphones......I think they are an absolute necessity if sharing a house with a committed antitheist.

Gordon, Its need vs necessity. We need amongst other things to cut down over consumption.
It's saving Vs spending. You can't deny there is a problem with debt etc.

I suspect spending is a bit of an addiction as it is with many people.

I'm afraid your ability to part with your hard earned/ability to be seen coming on a sunday evening doesn't cut any ice with me.

Fine - you spend Sunday your way, and at least have the decency to allow others the same option.

I can almost enjoy the Sunday I want but not for much longer I fear. ''ADHD Nation'' will see to that.

What about your seeking to interfere with the Sundays of others? How does knowing that Tesco is open ruin your day? Why is it only about what you want?

"Ruin?"  You are over the top here, Rhiannon.  Any change in opening hours is not going to make a massive difference, one way or another  -  except on the livelihood of the small shop-keeper, that is.  That small matter seems not to bother most, though.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

One of the implications of Osborne's proposal that no one has picked up on yet is that power to extend Sunday trading hours will be devolved to local authorities, meaning in principle that there could be different opening hours in Southampton than Salford - or, to make the comparison even more acute, in Derby as opposed to Nottingham just a few miles away.

I strongly suspect that those local authorities which decide to stick with the status quo will not take long about changing their minds.

More wear and tear on the infrastructure with migrant shopoholics on the move but I suspect Osborne is doing it knowing that everybody will have have to have it as part of the social and economic Darwinism of ''ADHD Nation''.(so much for choice pro-unbridled consumerists).
I tend to think George would like us to work 24/7 since the number of people needing to do 2 jobs has sky rocketted. Still, what the fuck eh, consumerists.....at least you can get a bottle of Captain Morgan at any time of the day.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I will excuse Mrs G her in ear headphones......I think they are an absolute necessity if sharing a house with a committed antitheist.

Gordon, Its need vs necessity. We need amongst other things to cut down over consumption.
It's saving Vs spending. You can't deny there is a problem with debt etc.

I suspect spending is a bit of an addiction as it is with many people.

I'm afraid your ability to part with your hard earned/ability to be seen coming on a sunday evening doesn't cut any ice with me.

Fine - you spend Sunday your way, and at least have the decency to allow others the same option.

I can almost enjoy the Sunday I want but not for much longer I fear. ''ADHD Nation'' will see to that.

How - are there there likely to be roaming retail press-gangs where you are forcing you to spend money in supermarkets on a Sunday afternoon if ST restrictions are binned?

Yep, They're called Ocado vans and one click shopping vans.

[Rhiannon]

I've been thinking about this idea of a 'time for reflection'. Sunday was always Row Day when I was growing up - on Saturday we did stuff, separately or together, but on Sunday we were all stuck together and by tea time the cracks had become chasms and dinner was eaten in silence following a slanging match.

Time for reflection is just about impossible when stuck at home with a moody teenager or tetchy grandparent. Even now most Sundays for me are an endless round of uniform washing, homework supervision and hair washing interspersed with the odd bit of sport on the TV, but there are things we can go and do if we can grab a moment. We don't end up with stuff, but memories - gardening, walking the dog - but sometimes we need to get away and escape and that involves a degree of work - staff at the gardens, staff in the pub.

I carve out my time for reflection - in the evenings before sleep, first thing in the morning when the house is quiet, even zoning out the TV to write in my journal. The one thing I can guarantee is that I won't get the luxury of a 'day of reflection' on a Sunday regardless of what is and isn't open and I strongly suspect few mothers of school aged children do.