Extended Sunday opening hours

[Shaker]

It's interesting that in Ireland, generally a country characterised by its Christianity ...

Not any more

[ProfessorDavey]

So even just in Europe there are no restrictions to Sunday opening in:

Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Ireland, Italy, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden - just as examples.

Might be worth looking at the political history of 11 of these - all ex-Warsaw Pact countries.  How many of the old 'Western European' countries have some form of restriction? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_shopping#Europe

So what?

Again I ask (and I have yet to have a coherent rebuttal) - if a shop wants to open longer hours on a Sunday and there are people happy to work those hours and people who would prefer to shop at that time (for whatever reason) why on earth should they be prevented from doing so.

[Shaker]

You haven't had an answer because there isn't one.

[Shaker]

You haven't had an answer because there isn't one.

Yes there is.

I don't like Sunday opening for all shops, because it changes the nature of a peaceful Sunday.

Which was traditional in this country at one time.

How does something that you don't have to do and doesn't affect or impinge upon you in any way unless you freely choose to let it change the nature of your Sunday?

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm just going to cook ours, also bought yesterday. But would the sky really have fallen in if I'd bought the jacket potatoes at 9 am this morning rather than at 10 am as I am legally entitled to? Would that really make me some kind of greedy consumerist monster?

You could quite legitimately have bought them at 9am this morning as the law stands, Rhi.  Why the need to extend the opening hours of the large players?

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to shop.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't like Sunday opening for all shops, because it changes the nature of a peaceful Sunday.

Then don't go shopping on a Sunday. I'm sure your garden wouldn't be any less peaceful at 6pm on a Sunday evening if the tesco a mile away was open.

But as with others, I trust there isn't any double standards going on here. I assume you don't just oppose people on the streets off to shop on a Sunday, but also on the streets off to church as well.

[Shaker]

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to shop.

So do I 

[BashfulAnthony]

I'm just going to cook ours, also bought yesterday. But would the sky really have fallen in if I'd bought the jacket potatoes at 9 am this morning rather than at 10 am as I am legally entitled to? Would that really make me some kind of greedy consumerist monster?

You could quite legitimately have bought them at 9am this morning as the law stands, Rhi.  Why the need to extend the opening hours of the large players?

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to s...

Don't lose sight of the fact that your cherished freedom to shop at all times is only being curtailed by a few hours in  the whole week.  It's not as though you are being deprived of some essential freedom, which is a danger to the democracy!   

[wigginhall]

Just echoing Prof. D. - some of this sounds like Big Brother.  WTF - why should someone tell me when to shop, and where to shop?    By the way, is it OK if I pop off to Waitrose just now?

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm just going to cook ours, also bought yesterday. But would the sky really have fallen in if I'd bought the jacket potatoes at 9 am this morning rather than at 10 am as I am legally entitled to? Would that really make me some kind of greedy consumerist monster?

You could quite legitimately have bought them at 9am this morning as the law stands, Rhi.  Why the need to extend the opening hours of the large players?

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to s

Don't lose sight of the fact that your cherished freedom to shop at all times is only being curtailed by a few hours in  the whole week.  It's not as though you are being deprived of some essential freedom, which is a danger to the democracy!

If those are the hours when I want or need to shop to fit around the rest of my life, then of course it is an imposition.

But I think this does hit to the heart of fundamental aspects of freedom - effectively why the state should prevent a situation where I want to shop, the shop wants to open and there are people who are happy to work those hours. I just don't think that is the kind of private interaction that the state has any business being involved in.

[BashfulAnthony]

I'm just going to cook ours, also bought yesterday. But would the sky really have fallen in if I'd bought the jacket potatoes at 9 am this morning rather than at 10 am as I am legally entitled to? Would that really make me some kind of greedy consumerist monster?

You could quite legitimately have bought them at 9am this morning as the law stands, Rhi.  Why the need to extend the opening hours of the large players?

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to s

Don't lose sight of the fact that your cherished freedom to shop at all times is only being curtailed by a few hours in  the whole week.  It's not as though you are being deprived of some essential freedom, which is a danger to the democracy!

If those are the hours when I want or need to shop to fit around the rest of my life, then of course it is an imposition.

But I think this does hit to the heart of fundamental aspects of freedom - effectively why the state should prevent a situation where I want to shop, the shop wants to open and there are people who are happy to work those hours. I just don't think that is the kind of private interaction that the state has any business being involved in.

In the scheme of things, and considering the problems and difficulties we can engage with, it's not that important  -  unless, of course, you are a small shop-keeper, whose livelihood is at stake!

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm just going to cook ours, also bought yesterday. But would the sky really have fallen in if I'd bought the jacket potatoes at 9 am this morning rather than at 10 am as I am legally entitled to? Would that really make me some kind of greedy consumerist monster?

You could quite legitimately have bought them at 9am this morning as the law stands, Rhi.  Why the need to extend the opening hours of the large players?

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to s

Don't lose sight of the fact that your cherished freedom to shop at all times is only being curtailed by a few hours in  the whole week.  It's not as though you are being deprived of some essential freedom, which is a danger to the democracy!

If those are the hours when I want or need to shop to fit around the rest of my life, then of course it is an imposition.

But I think this does hit to the heart of fundamental aspects of freedom - effectively why the state should prevent a situation where I want to shop, the shop wants to open and there are people who are happy to work those hours. I just don't think that is the kind of private interaction that the state has any business being involved in.

In the scheme of things, and considering the problems and difficulties we can engage with, it's trivial!!

Well if it is trivial get rid of the restrictions then. It isn't going to affect you because presumably who don't want to go shopping during those extended hours and no-one is going to force you. It will affect me in a small but positive manner, removing the not uncommon inconvenience and irritation of having to wait until mod morning for the shops to open or realising they are just about to close mid afternoon, which ends up with you having to fit the rest of your life around the shop opening hours, rather than the other way around.

[BashfulAnthony]

I'm just going to cook ours, also bought yesterday. But would the sky really have fallen in if I'd bought the jacket potatoes at 9 am this morning rather than at 10 am as I am legally entitled to? Would that really make me some kind of greedy consumerist monster?

You could quite legitimately have bought them at 9am this morning as the law stands, Rhi.  Why the need to extend the opening hours of the large players?

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to s

Don't lose sight of the fact that your cherished freedom to shop at all times is only being curtailed by a few hours in  the whole week.  It's not as though you are being deprived of some essential freedom, which is a danger to the democracy!

If those are the hours when I want or need to shop to fit around the rest of my life, then of course it is an imposition.

But I think this does hit to the heart of fundamental aspects of freedom - effectively why the state should prevent a situation where I want to shop, the shop wants to open and there are people who are happy to work those hours. I just don't think that is the kind of private interaction that the state has any business being involved in.

Nobody is stopping you from shopping, just saying give it a rest for half a dozen hours, or so, out of the entire week. 

[Sebastian Toe]

You haven't had an answer because there isn't one.

Yes there is.

I don't like Sunday opening for all shops, because it changes the nature of a peaceful Sunday.

Which was traditional in this country at one time.

How does something that you don't have to do and doesn't affect or impinge upon you in any way unless you freely choose to let it change the nature of your Sunday?

Well firstly I don't agree it doesn't affect or impinge upon me in anyway, it does.

It ruins my peaceful Sunday for a start.

You can't move with the supermarkets and others opening now, traffic is queued up worse than it is on Saturday.

I have no choice about my Sunday being changed, its changed beyond recognition,now for a start I have to wait in queues of traffic because of shoppers. The minute I step outside my door I am aware of the noise and bustle created by shoppers the increase in traffic, the noise.

It's not peaceful or relaxing anymore.

It's full of people in their cars, passing my house in large numbers, on their way to the now open supermarket.

It impinges on me a lot actually.

Just because it is their choice, doesn't mean it doesn't impinge on me in any way.

Plus you also have the pressure from work to work Sunday's, and no matter what all of you say about people being willing to work on a Sunday, that isn't how it works.

Companies put pressure on their current workers to do it, that's because to employ more staff costs the company more in pensions etc.

So there is pressure to work on a Sunday, when you don't want to.

Companies assume you are prepared to and insist on changing your contract to include it, as the needs of the business.

So yes, Sunday opening affects everyone, including those who don't want it.

It's the environment you find yourself in as much as anything.

Not everyone lives in the country, where your peace is never disturbed by shoppers. Some of us have to face queues of traffic etc all brought about by shops being open on a Sunday.

It's so busy now on a Sunday at my local supermarket, it's worse than Saturday.

Maybe it would be less busy if people didn't have to squeeze their shopping into the current restricted hours?

[ProfessorDavey]

You haven't had an answer because there isn't one.

Yes there is.

I don't like Sunday opening for all shops, because it changes the nature of a peaceful Sunday.

Which was traditional in this country at one time.

How does something that you don't have to do and doesn't affect or impinge upon you in any way unless you freely choose to let it change the nature of your Sunday?

Well firstly I don't agree it doesn't affect or impinge upon me in anyway, it does.

It ruins my peaceful Sunday for a start.

You can't move with the supermarkets and others opening now, traffic is queued up worse than it is on Saturday.

I have no choice about my Sunday being changed, its changed beyond recognition,now for a start I have to wait in queues of traffic because of shoppers. The minute I step outside my door I am aware of the noise and bustle created by shoppers the increase in traffic, the noise.

It's not peaceful or relaxing anymore.

It's full of people in their cars, passing my house in large numbers, on their way to the now open supermarket.

It impinges on me a lot actually.

Just because it is their choice, doesn't mean it doesn't impinge on me in any way.

Plus you also have the pressure from work to work Sunday's, and no matter what all of you say about people being willing to work on a Sunday, that isn't how it works.

Companies put pressure on their current workers to do it, that's because to employ more staff costs the company more in pensions etc.

So there is pressure to work on a Sunday, when you don't want to.

Companies assume you are prepared to and insist on changing your contract to include it, as the needs of the business.

So yes, Sunday opening affects everyone, including those who don't want it.

It's the environment you find yourself in as much as anything.

Not everyone lives in the country, where your peace is never disturbed by shoppers. Some of us have to face queues of traffic etc all brought about by shops being open on a Sunday.

It's so busy now on a Sunday at my local supermarket, it's worse than Saturday.

And is it beyond your comprehension to understand that the mad rush on a Sunday and consequential traffic queues etc is actually due to the restricted opening as everyone needs to ram in their shop between 10 and 4. Extend the opening to 8-8 (for example) and you smooth out the density of shoppers and traffic flow etc.

And I note you have evaded my question on church-goers. So what about people living near a church where there is a block of traffic congestion and parking nightmares around the time of Sunday services. The churches near me have no meaningful off street parking and church-goers park in busy residential streets. Leave the house at the wrong time and you can guarantee you won't get a parking space when you get back.

So why is the disruption of a supermarket so unacceptable but of a church acceptable. Sounds like double standards to me.

[ProfessorDavey]

Why not just leave it as it is 10am - 4pm on Sunday's?

Because sometimes that's a real pain. Particularly when you want to spend the day on Sunday doing something rather more pleasurable than shopping, but need a bit of shopping and you effectively end up not getting going until 11am or need to be back by 3pm.

I want the necessary 'evil' of shopping to fit around my life, not the other way around.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm just going to cook ours, also bought yesterday. But would the sky really have fallen in if I'd bought the jacket potatoes at 9 am this morning rather than at 10 am as I am legally entitled to? Would that really make me some kind of greedy consumerist monster?

You could quite legitimately have bought them at 9am this morning as the law stands, Rhi.  Why the need to extend the opening hours of the large players?

Blimey we really are in the world of authoritarianism when the 'state' dictates that I can only by potatoes in certain types of 'state approved' shops at certain times.

I actually get quite angry at the notion that someone else should be dictating to me when and where I should be able to choose to s

Don't lose sight of the fact that your cherished freedom to shop at all times is only being curtailed by a few hours in  the whole week.  It's not as though you are being deprived of some essential freedom, which is a danger to the democracy!

If those are the hours when I want or need to shop to fit around the rest of my life, then of course it is an imposition.

But I think this does hit to the heart of fundamental aspects of freedom - effectively why the state should prevent a situation where I want to shop, the shop wants to open and there are people who are happy to work those hours. I just don't think that is the kind of private interaction that the state has any business being involved in.

Nobody is stopping you from shopping, just saying give it a rest for half a dozen hours, or so, out of the entire week.

It's easy to naively think in that way, but for busy families with both parents working it doesn't pan out like that.

So shopping Monday- Friday - nope that's out because we are at work. Saturday if often stupidly busy with family stuff - kids to clubs, parties etc etc. So it isn't uncommon at all that the only possible day is Sunday, and then you have to cram it into the restricted opening hours in the middle of the day.

[BashfulAnthony]

You haven't had an answer because there isn't one.

Yes there is.

I don't like Sunday opening for all shops, because it changes the nature of a peaceful Sunday.

Which was traditional in this country at one time.

How does something that you don't have to do and doesn't affect or impinge upon you in any way unless you freely choose to let it change the nature of your Sunday?

Well firstly I don't agree it doesn't affect or impinge upon me in anyway, it does.

It ruins my peaceful Sunday for a start.

You can't move with the supermarkets and others opening now, traffic is queued up worse than it is on Saturday.

I have no choice about my Sunday being changed, its changed beyond recognition,now for a start I have to wait in queues of traffic because of shoppers. The minute I step outside my door I am aware of the noise and bustle created by shoppers the increase in traffic, the noise.

It's not peaceful or relaxing anymore.

It's full of people in their cars, passing my house in large numbers, on their way to the now open supermarket.

It impinges on me a lot actually.

Just because it is their choice, doesn't mean it doesn't impinge on me in any way.

Plus you also have the pressure from work to work Sunday's, and no matter what all of you say about people being willing to work on a Sunday, that isn't how it works.

Companies put pressure on their current workers to do it, that's because to employ more staff costs the company more in pensions etc.

So there is pressure to work on a Sunday, when you don't want to.

Companies assume you are prepared to and insist on changing your contract to include it, as the needs of the business.

So yes, Sunday opening affects everyone, including those who don't want it.

It's the environment you find yourself in as much as anything.

Not everyone lives in the country, where your peace is never disturbed by shoppers. Some of us have to face queues of traffic etc all brought about by shops being open on a Sunday.

It's so busy now on a Sunday at my local supermarket, it's worse than Saturday.

And is it beyond your comprehension to understand that the mad rush on a Sunday and consequential traffic queues etc is actually due to the restricted opening as everyone needs to ram in their shop between 10 and 4. Extend the opening to 8-8 (for example) and you smooth out the density of shoppers and traffic flow etc.

And I note you have evaded my question on church-goers. So what about people living near a church where there is a block of traffic congestion and parking nightmares around the time of Sunday services. The churches near me have no meaningful off street parking and church-goers park in busy residential streets. Leave the house at the wrong time and you can guarantee you won't get a parking space when you get back.

So why is the disruption of a supermarket so unacceptable but of a church acceptable. Sounds like double standards to me.

Have you any evidence to support that assertion?  In my experience people shop just as frantically eariier on a Saturday, and most days for that that matter.  I generally shop later in the evening because it's so quiet.

[ProfessorDavey]

I generally shop later in the evening because it's so quiet.

But you can't do that on a Sunday, can you. Rather shot yourself in the foot there BA.

[BashfulAnthony]

I generally shop later in the evening because it's so quiet.

But you can't do that on a Sunday, can you. Rather shop yourself in the foot there BA.

Not at all, Prof.     I make sure I get all I need on the other six days, and it ain't too difficult. If I do run out of anything late on Sunday, there are still shops available.  What's the problem with a little respite from the angst of frantic super-market shopping?

[Rhiannon]

The problem is that you seek to dictate that respite to me. You do not allow me the freedom to choose for myself when or where to shop. And you have no logical reason for doing do beyond it being what you want.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Bashers,

Nothing, it's the Sunday thing, simple as that, we have shopping 24 hours a day but seemingly we need even more consumer time, Jeremyp says it all adds to what he calls "the shopping experience".

The Tories say jump and we ask how high.

Gonnagle.

[BeRational]

Dear Bashers,

Nothing, it's the Sunday thing, simple as that, we have shopping 24 hours a day but seemingly we need even more consumer time, Jeremyp says it all adds to what he calls "the shopping experience".

The Tories say jump and we ask how high.

Gonnagle.

Why are you fixated by the Tories.

This just happens to be a good idea.

I do not care who is in power, it's a good thing.

[Rhiannon]

You say don't shop on a Sunday and expect everyone to fall in line, Gonners. What's the difference?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Berational,

Eermm!! Yes I am slightly fixated on a party that is anti Christian, anti British and I am working up to placing the name murderer at their doorstep.

Dear Rhiannon,

Difference being that a large majority of British citizen don't follow me like sheep.

Gonnagle.