'god thingies'

[floo]

How does this god thingy of yours contact you with he, she or it's innermost thoughts, on the phone, email, loud booming voice from the sky, etc?

Give me an insight of this vivid imagination of yours.

ippy

Some of the methods you suggest do work.  For instance, I get commentaries on Biblical passages by email; I discuss theology with friends on the phone; I do the same on this website: I meet up with friends to study the Bible - which is perhaps the greatest collection of material that outlines God's plans for this world; I read parallel translations, including the original Greek.  I don't read Hebrew, so when there is a issue I'm not sure about, I ask people I know who do.

There are many other ways of hearing and seeing God's presence.

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

[Hope]

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

Scientifically, no they can't; however, scientific knowledge isn't the only contributory aspect of our lives.

[ippy]

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

Scientifically, no they can't; however, scientific knowledge isn't the only contributory aspect of our lives.

I Y O Hope and the magical, mythical and superstitious nonsense you attempt to promote is so unlikely to have any truth in it, it's only there for the gullible 

ippy

[Hope]

I Y O Hope ...

And in the opinion of many others, scientists included, ippy. 

...and the magical, mythical and superstitious nonsense you attempt to promote is so unlikely to have any truth in it, it's only there for the gullible 

No more or less so than the idea that science is the only contributory factor of our lives, ippy.  You are entitled to believe that it is, but that is all it is - a scientifically unevidenced belief.

[Andy]

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

Scientifically, no they can't; however, scientific knowledge isn't the only contributory aspect of our lives.

I Y O Hope and the magical, mythical and superstitious nonsense you attempt to promote is so unlikely to have any truth in it, it's only there for the gullible 

ippy

It's not even unlikely.

[ippy]

I Y O Hope ...

And in the opinion of many others, scientists included, ippy. 

...and the magical, mythical and superstitious nonsense you attempt to promote is so unlikely to have any truth in it, it's only there for the gullible 

No more or less so than the idea that science is the only contributory factor of our lives, ippy.  You are entitled to believe that it is, but that is all it is - a scientifically unevidenced belief.

Yes and there are plenty of people with split or multiple personalities too, some of them I'm sure end up as scientists.

It's not a belief of mine that there is no such thing as your god thingy, there is as you must be aware, because you've never been able to come up with any, no credible evidence that would support this he, she or it god thingy idea of yours and that's not a belief, that's how it is. 

ippy

[trippymonkey]

HOPE
''I meet up with friends to study the Bible - which is perhaps the greatest collection of material that outlines God's plans for this world; ''

And how have you worked THIS one out ?
Studied ALL world major religions have we ?!!?!? NO thought not.....
0 out of 10 for effort AND achievent.

Nick

[floo]

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

Scientifically, no they can't; however, scientific knowledge isn't the only contributory aspect of our lives.

It is the most important, imo! Without science we would still be back in the dark ages.

[jeremyp]

Some of the methods you suggest do work.  For instance, I get commentaries on Biblical passages by email; I discuss theology with friends on the phone; I do the same on this website: I meet up with friends to study the Bible - which is perhaps the greatest collection of material that outlines God's plans for this world; I read parallel translations, including the original Greek.  I don't read Hebrew, so when there is a issue I'm not sure about, I ask people I know who do.

There are many other ways of hearing and seeing God's presence.

The Bible was written a couple of thousand years ago and hasn't really changed in the intervening years.  That doesn't sound like hearing or seeing God today so much as seeing or hearing him as he was 2,000 years ago (assuming it was him at all).

[BashfulAnthony]

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

Scientifically, no they can't; however, scientific knowledge isn't the only contributory aspect of our lives.

It is the most important, imo! Without science we would still be back in the dark ages.

Some of you still are, imo.   

[floo]

Some of the methods you suggest do work.  For instance, I get commentaries on Biblical passages by email; I discuss theology with friends on the phone; I do the same on this website: I meet up with friends to study the Bible - which is perhaps the greatest collection of material that outlines God's plans for this world; I read parallel translations, including the original Greek.  I don't read Hebrew, so when there is a issue I'm not sure about, I ask people I know who do.

There are many other ways of hearing and seeing God's presence.

The Bible was written a couple of thousand years ago and hasn't really changed in the intervening years.  That doesn't sound like hearing or seeing God today so much as seeing or hearing him as he was 2,000 years ago (assuming it was him at all).

It is about time the deity was brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century, it needs a modern update!

[Hope]

The Bible was written a couple of thousand years ago and hasn't really changed in the intervening years.  That doesn't sound like hearing or seeing God today so much as seeing or hearing him as he was 2,000 years ago (assuming it was him at all).

It is about time the deity was brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century, it needs a modern update!

jeremy, Julius Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico was written at a similar distance from the present day.  Does that mean it is no longer relevant?  The Magna Carta was written 800 years ago; does it mean that it no longer has any relevance to us?

Floo, how would you 'update' him?  Do you want to recreate him in your preferred form?

[cyberman]

So to suggest, as you have, that "all that is written in the Bible about the deity is lies" simply highlights how poor your understanding of the Bible is - something that you quite regularly do.

She didn't suggest that it is all lies; she asked you if it is, in other words, posed a question.

In addition, the problem with 'literary genres', especially since Hope is using it in a modern and non relevant sense, is that even if not meant to be factually correct, they are surely aiming for some form of truth.

Doesn't mean they're right. And being wrong doesn't make them liars.

[cyberman]

How does this god thingy of yours contact you with he, she or it's innermost thoughts, on the phone, email, loud booming voice from the sky, etc?

Give me an insight of this vivid imagination of yours.

ippy

Some of the methods you suggest do work.  For instance, I get commentaries on Biblical passages by email; I discuss theology with friends on the phone; I do the same on this website: I meet up with friends to study the Bible - which is perhaps the greatest collection of material that outlines God's plans for this world; I read parallel translations, including the original Greek.  I don't read Hebrew, so when there is a issue I'm not sure about, I ask people I know who do.

There are many other ways of hearing and seeing God's presence.

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

so?

[cyberman]

So all that is written in the Bible about the deity is lies, is it?

Floo, the Bible is made up of a whole of literary genres.  You, and others, have a habit of referencing passages from poetry, theological exposition and other genres that aren't literal in their purpose.  So to suggest, as you have, that "all that is written in the Bible about the deity is lies" simply highlights how poor your understanding of the Bible is - something that you quite regularly do.

Hope I thought you taught English? I didn't state that as a fact, I asked you a question?

How do you pick out which bits are literally true and which bits are allegorical?

Who said they're allegorical? Maybe they're just wrong. Maybe the people who wrote the story of the flood thought it had happened, and were wrong.

[cyberman]

Even the most learned theologian cannot produce verifiable evidence for the existence of the deity.

Scientifically, no they can't; however, scientific knowledge isn't the only contributory aspect of our lives.

It is the most important, imo!

But not the only one

[Leonard James]

There are many other ways of hearing and seeing God's presence.

Not really! What you mean is that there are many things which you can hear and see which you interpret as being "God's" presence.

[Hope]

It is the most important, imo! Without science we would still be back in the dark ages.

Floo, whether it is the most important is open to debate.  As to where we are in relation to the dark ages, that also is open to debate.  If you talk to non-Westerners about the West in general, one of the subjects they bring up is the fragmented relational nature of Western society, what with our nuclear family pattern and our increasingly fragmented form of that pattern.  Humans are, by definition, social creatures so this nuclearisation of relationships seem to such people as very backward.  Arguably, this is the more important element of human life.

[Hope]

In my opinion: Not really! What you mean is that there are many things which you can hear and see which you interpret as being "God's" presence.

FIFY, Len

[Leonard James]

In my opinion: Not really! What you mean is that there are many things which you can hear and see which you interpret as being "God's" presence.

FIFY, Len

Yes, but incorrectly. Do you deny that you interpret these experiences as  "God's" presence?

[floo]

It is the most important, imo! Without science we would still be back in the dark ages.

Floo, whether it is the most important is open to debate.  As to where we are in relation to the dark ages, that also is open to debate.  If you talk to non-Westerners about the West in general, one of the subjects they bring up is the fragmented relational nature of Western society, what with our nuclear family pattern and our increasingly fragmented form of that pattern.  Humans are, by definition, social creatures so this nuclearisation of relationships seem to such people as very backward.  Arguably, this is the more important element of human life.

I don't really understand what you are on about? I would much sooner live in the West, and the UK in particular, than in any less developed part of the world. If they find it so wonderful living in their own countries why are so many of them wanting to migrate to the West?

[Hope]

I don't really understand what you are on about? I would much sooner live in the West, and the UK in particular, than in any less developed part of the world. If they find it so wonderful living in their own countries why are so many of them wanting to migrate to the West?

Well, if you can't understand what I'm on about, perhaps you have lived an extremely sheltered life.  Most immigrants to this country are either economic migrants, who want to improve their economic status, or refugees from persecution.  Yet the vast majority continue to live within groups of their own culture.   This has to do with their relational ties and support groups, which are usually far larger than those of the average white Briton.  This is often reflected in their relational language - several Asian languages have separate terms for one's father's and mother's parents, as opposed to the English way of using the term 'grandparents' and simply affixing 'paternal' or 'maternal'.  That is only one of several examples that I could give; in the East, family/clan/tribal relationships are far more important than they are here.  In many rural areas of the East, villages are often no more than the home of a multi-generational extended family.

[floo]

I don't really understand what you are on about? I would much sooner live in the West, and the UK in particular, than in any less developed part of the world. If they find it so wonderful living in their own countries why are so many of them wanting to migrate to the West?

Well, if you can't understand what I'm on about, perhaps you have lived an extremely sheltered life.  Most immigrants to this country are either economic migrants, who want to improve their economic status, or refugees from persecution.  Yet the vast majority continue to live within groups of their own culture.   This has to do with their relational ties and support groups, which are usually far larger than those of the average white Briton.  This is often reflected in their relational language - several Asian languages have separate terms for one's father's and mother's parents, as opposed to the English way of using the term 'grandparents' and simply affixing 'paternal' or 'maternal'.  That is only one of several examples that I could give; in the East, family/clan/tribal relationships are far more important than they are here.  In many rural areas of the East, villages are often no more than the home of a multi-generational extended family.

I would hate to live in that sort of family. I was happy to leave home at 19 and start married life alone with my husband. I wouldn't be thrilled if now my children are adults with their own families if they wanted to come back home to live. When I am no longer able to care for myself I am perfectly happy to go into a home rather than have my kids lumbered with me!