Bring back the sabbatical

[ProfessorDavey]

I suspect that people are loathe to use the term, especially within government, because of its religious (specifically Jewish) connotations.   

While I do understand that there is broader usage I would have thought the most commonly recognised use was in academia not in religious organisations. Not just for academics taking sabbaticals but also sabbatical officers in students unions.

[ippy]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experiance of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

[Hope]

While I do understand that there is broader usage I would have thought the most commonly recognised use was in academia not in religious organisations. Not just for academics taking sabbaticals but also sabbatical officers in students unions.

If the number of academics and the number of clergy who take sabbaticals were to be compared, I think we'd probably find a similar proportion take them.  I accept though that very few clergy will take a full year off - more like 3-6 months.  What is the usual for academics?

I think the important thing is that whatever sector a sabbatical is taken in, it is always in order for the recipient to have a break from their usual activities (even if it's more 'a change is as good as a rest').  That is what the Sabbath was all about: resting from one's usual week-day activities.

[BashfulAnthony]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experiance of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence. (!!)   Your original claim is clearly arrant nonsense. How many teachers are there in UK?  There are 451,100 full-time-equivalent teachers:  (Sean Coughlan, on BBC News.)   Of those, how many are you privy to their personal circumstances?  Your comment looks more and more asinine!

[ProfessorDavey]

I've come across it under another name, usually by government employees.

Gardening leave.

Is it the same thing?

Work is suspended but people are getting full pay.

If it's between projects, it could be I suppose.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave

No that's something different.

Gardening leave is usually where a person has resigned from a job and the employer does not wish the person to continue to work during their notice period. So they are effectively on paid leave for their (as an example) 3 month notice period.

Companies do this often where work in sensitive and they don't want someone who is on their way out of an organisation (usually to a rival organisation) being in a position where they can see what is planned in the medium term for their existing employer.

Sabbatical leave is where someone takes time out from their job (or aspects of it) but returns to the same job once the leave is over.

[ProfessorDavey]

If the number of academics and the number of clergy who take sabbaticals were to be compared, I think we'd probably find a similar proportion take them.  I accept though that very few clergy will take a full year off - more like 3-6 months.  What is the usual for academics?

The usual rule in academia is one in seven - so one semester off in seven, or one full year off in seven. Not sure what the clerical equivalent is, but I think maybe the same.

But actually the take up tends to be rather lower, in part because you need to have been in an organisation for a particular length of time to be eligible and also there are often reasons why staff don't apply (it isn't automatic) or it isn't agreed by the organisation.

But in terms of profile, I think there are very much larger numbers of academic staff in the UK than clergy.

[ProfessorDavey]

My employment allows you take up to a year out, in some circumstances.

However I don't think it is paid.

I think it is pretty good of them to do that, really.

Apparently a number of companies allow unpaid sabbaticals but paid ones are very rare according to this.


http://www.thecareerbreaksite.com/sabbaticals

I would think most companies would find it to difficult to do paid ones and it's enough really to offer the opportunity of a break.

Yes that's right - in most cases sabbaticals are unpaid. Academia is an exception, but then the nature of the sabbatical is different. An academic sabbatical isn't time off to go off and do anything you fancy - rather it is a period where the academic is allowed to focus 100% of their time on one aspect of their normal job, namely research, and trade that off against not having to do the other normal aspects of their role, teaching and administrative activities.

I do know quite a few companies that provide paid time off for volunteering however. Often this is on the basis that for every day the employee takes off as annual leave but is using that time for volunteering the company adds another day which they can use for volunteering. I know a number of people (in different companies) who use this to allow them more easily to volunteer to lead scout camps, which are across the normal working week.

[jeremyp]

I've come across it under another name, usually by government employees.

Gardening leave.

Is it the same thing?

Work is suspended but people are getting full pay.

If it's between projects, it could be I suppose.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave

A sabbatical is usually a voluntary leave of absence.  Gardening leave is generally forced on you either because of a possible disciplinary action or because you are leaving your place of work but they don't want to risk you being on site for the remainder of your contract.

[ippy]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experiance of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence. (!!)   Your original claim is clearly arrant nonsense. How many teachers are there in UK?  There are 451,100 full-time-equivalent teachers:  (Sean Coughlan, on BBC News.)   Of those, how many are you privy to their personal circumstances?  Your comment looks more and more asinine!

You can be a bit of a tit at times B A, I suppose I'll have to brace myself for a barrage of insults now, but I have got my crayons to play with and I've got my fingers crossed so fire away.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experiance of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence. (!!)   Your original claim is clearly arrant nonsense. How many teachers are there in UK?  There are 451,100 full-time-equivalent teachers:  (Sean Coughlan, on BBC News.)   Of those, how many are you privy to their personal circumstances?  Your comment looks more and more asinine!

You can be a bit of a tit at times B A, I suppose I'll have to brace myself for a barrage of insults now, but I have...
ippy

Listen, ippy, if you can't provide some decent evidence for your sweeping claim, then you can take your colouring books and sit on the naughty step for an hour. 

[ProfessorDavey]

I've come across it under another name, usually by government employees.

Gardening leave.

Is it the same thing?

Work is suspended but people are getting full pay.

If it's between projects, it could be I suppose.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_leave

A sabbatical is usually a voluntary leave of absence.  Gardening leave is generally forced on you either because of a possible disciplinary action or because you are leaving your place of work but they don't want to risk you being on site for the remainder of your contract.

That's right - gardening leave is where you are contracted to work, but for one reason or another your employer does not want you to fulfil any employment duties for a period of time. You will however still get paid.

[ippy]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experience of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence. (!!)   Your original claim is clearly arrant nonsense. How many teachers are there in UK?  There are 451,100 full-time-equivalent teachers:  (Sean Coughlan, on BBC News.)   Of those, how many are you privy to their personal circumstances?  Your comment looks more and more asinine!

You can be a bit of a tit at times B A, I suppose I'll have to brace myself for a barrage of insults now, but I have...
ippy

Listen, ippy, if you can't provide some decent evidence for your sweeping claim, then you can take your colouring books and sit on the naughty step for an hour.

I am telling you exactly what I have seen over the years and I have no reason to make up a story of this kind, I have teachers in my close family and friends, I have been there in teachers houses loads of them probably somewhere in between 1 to 2 hundred homes maybe more, I wasn't counting.

If you read the things I have said I was very careful to state exactly the things I have observed without any embellishments.

A large number of teachers I have had dealings with live in a mess, not usually a dirty mess, or are extremely  tidy and there seems to be very little in between.

Noel would be a good name for most teachers, the males of course, perhaps Noela for the women teachers, I don't know why but the large majority of teachers suffer with this, I have the combined knowledge of the whole universe here in my head, complaint, (note I specifically didn't say all teachers), certainly the largest amount of them.

ippy


 

[jjohnjil]

BA  post 29

"It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence."

Now, Bashful, you shouldn't, of all people, make a statement like that!

As Captain Mainwaring would say "Stupid boy!"

[BashfulAnthony]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experience of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence. (!!)   Your original claim is clearly arrant nonsense. How many teachers are there in UK?  There are 451,100 full-time-equivalent teachers:  (Sean Coughlan, on BBC News.)   Of those, how many are you privy to their personal circumstances?  Your comment looks more and more asinine!

You can be a bit of a tit at times B A, I suppose I'll have to brace myself for a barrage of insults now, but I have...
ippy

Listen, ippy, if you can't provide some decent evidence for your sweeping claim, then you can take your colouring books and sit on the naughty step for an hour.

I am telling you exactly what I have seen over the years and I have no reason to make up a story of this kind, I have teachers in my close family and friends, I have been there in teachers houses loads of them probably somewhere in between 1 to 2 hundred homes maybe more, I wasn't counting.

If you read the things I have said I was very careful to state exactly the things I have observed without any embellishments.

A large number of teachers I have had dealings with live in a mess, not usually a dirty mess, or are extremely  tidy and there seems to be very little in between.

Noel would be a good name for most teachers, the males of course, perhaps Noela for the women teachers, I don't know why but the large majority of teachers suffer with this, I have the combined knowledge of the whole universe here in my head, complaint, (note I specifically didn't say all teachers), certainly the largest amount of them.

ippy

This post has to be one of the most bizarre posts I have encountered here. Up to 200 teacher homes?  What are you, a teacher stalker?  Your claim is absurd, unsubstantiated, and quite farcical.   

[ProfessorDavey]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experience of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence. (!!)   Your original claim is clearly arrant nonsense. How many teachers are there in UK?  There are 451,100 full-time-equivalent teachers:  (Sean Coughlan, on BBC News.)   Of those, how many are you privy to their personal circumstances?  Your comment looks more and more asinine!

You can be a bit of a tit at times B A, I suppose I'll have to brace myself for a barrage of insults now, but I have...
ippy

Listen, ippy, if you can't provide some decent evidence for your sweeping claim, then you can take your colouring books and sit on the naughty step for an hour.

I am telling you exactly what I have seen over the years and I have no reason to make up a story of this kind, I have teachers in my close family and friends, I have been there in teachers houses loads of them probably somewhere in between 1 to 2 hundred homes maybe more, I wasn't counting.

If you read the things I have said I was very careful to state exactly the things I have observed without any embellishments.

A large number of teachers I have had dealings with live in a mess, not usually a dirty mess, or are extremely  tidy and there seems to be very little in between.

Noel would be a good name for most teachers, the males of course, perhaps Noela for the women teachers, I don't know why but the large majority of teachers suffer with this, I have the combined knowledge of the whole universe here in my head, complaint, (note I specifically didn't say all teachers), certainly the largest amount of them.

ippy

This post has to be one of the most bizarre posts I have encountered here. Up to 200 teacher homes?  What are you, a teacher stalker?  Your claim is absurd, unsubstantiated, and quite farcical.   

Quite how this little spat has any relevance to the OP is beyond me. I have no problem with threads taking an interesting new train, but this is non-sense. It is really interesting to know how many teachers' homes Ippy has visited.

For the record I too find the claim to have visited hundreds of such homes a tad far fetched, but frankly I don't care.

[BashfulAnthony]

What Jewish connotations?

The religious origin comes from Greek "of the Sabbath" - you are getting your Greek mixed up with the Hebrew "Sabbath" - used by a large number of Xhristians for Sunday - the Hebrew Sabbath is a Friday evening to saturday evening.

Precisely, the religious connotation has everything to do with the Jewish Shab(b)at, which was translated as 'Sabbath' in Greek.  Very few Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.  As you say, the Jewish Sabbath occurs every 7 days (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm in English terminology).  As for your rather naff attempt to misspell 'Christian', the Greek letter chi χ is often transliterated as 'ch' in English - as in Χάος.  You've effectively spelt it Chhristian!!

The more usual meaning is an academic one in that it refers to a period of paid study leave given to university professors.

Actually, the usual meaning is far broader than academia.

Oh bloody Hell I can't even make an honest typo now - X is next to C on the bloody keyboard you arrant arse!

The dictionary definition - Oxford English specifies academia!

But I forgot - as I have pointed out before no-one must argue with Hope he knows absolutely every-bloody-thing!

I have, really I have, tried to look at the world from your point of view, but I am physically incapable of getting my head that far up my own arse!

Goodbye Hope - we will not talk again!

Don't be too hard on Hope it's a very common complaint that most teachers seem to acquire.

I have had to deal with all sorts of people in my professional career from millionaires to Joe Bloggs that drives a roadside drain cleaning bowser, it can be a pain, it can be very interesting and you do get to notice the behavioural trends of those doing various types of jobs or professions.

On passing their final exams and becoming qualified teachers, a large number of them, suddenly think that they have by coincidence acquired all of the knowledge in the whole of the universe and this happened to them on the same day they qualified.

Another thing very common to the teaching profession is that their homes are either extremely tidy but a lot more often you can't sit down because of the stuff all over the seats and you can't clear a seat to sit down because there is nowhere to put the the stuff you would like to remove from the cluttered seat so that you can sit down and there's very few fit between the tidy or the tip preference.

I know this post of mine does sound a bit strange but I do assure you this has also surprised me over the past 45 years of my working life how true to form these living habits of teachers are.

ippy

Good grief!! How many teacher's homes have you been in?        Or is it just another wild and unsubstantiated generalisation?

No B A, it's not an unsubstantiated generalisation, it's first hand experience of must be at least a couple of hundred teachers or there abouts.

ippy

I suggest that is an exaggeration, or worse!  You must think people on here are very easily persuaded.  I'll warrant you couldn't name even half a dozen teachers whose homes you have been in.. I worked all my life as a teacher, and could only name a handful whose living conditions I was au fait with.  Are you prepared to revise your assertion, or perhaps substantiate it?

Just passing on something I have seen with my own eyes, do you make a daily record, say in a book, of everything that you find amusing, no, well likewise. 

If you think I'm lying fine, not much I can do about it.

ippy

It's so easy to make an outlandish claim, then provide no verifiable evidence. (!!)   Your original claim is clearly arrant nonsense. How many teachers are there in UK?  There are 451,100 full-time-equivalent teachers:  (Sean Coughlan, on BBC News.)   Of those, how many are you privy to their personal circumstances?  Your comment looks more and more asinine!

You can be a bit of a tit at times B A, I suppose I'll have to brace myself for a barrage of insults now, but I have...
ippy

Listen, ippy, if you can't provide some decent evidence for your sweeping claim, then you can take your colouring books and sit on the naughty step for an hour.

I am telling you exactly what I have seen over the years and I have no reason to make up a story of this kind, I have teachers in my close family and friends, I have been there in teachers houses loads of them probably somewhere in between 1 to 2 hundred homes maybe more, I wasn't counting.

If you read the things I have said I was very careful to state exactly the things I have observed without any embellishments.

A large number of teachers I have had dealings with live in a mess, not usually a dirty mess, or are extremely  tidy and there seems to be very little in between.

Noel would be a good name for most teachers, the males of course, perhaps Noela for the women teachers, I don't know why but the large majority of teachers suffer with this, I have the combined knowledge of the whole universe here in my head, complaint, (note I specifically didn't say all teachers), certainly the largest amount of them.

ippy

This post has to be one of the most bizarre posts I have encountered here. Up to 200 teacher homes?  What are you, a teacher stalker?  Your claim is absurd, unsubstantiated, and quite farcical.   

Quite how this little spat has any relevance to the OP is beyond me. I have no problem with threads taking an interesting new train, but this is non-sense. It is really interesting to know how many teachers' homes Ippy has visited.

For the record I too find the claim to have visited hundreds of such homes a tad far fetched, but frankly I don't care.

The only reason I pursue it is because ippy's mantra of "verifiable evidence' is thrown at theists here ad nauseam, yet when asked for evidence, of any conceivably realistic nature, about hie ludicrous claim, he is strangely reticent  -  unless you accept his, " if I say it three times, it's true," argument. 

[Hope]

A quick appeal to those who simply quote a whole post, even if it means that we end up with huge posts that have multiple exchanges within them (as with BA's and ippy's recent posts).  Those posters who rely on software to read the posts struggle with them because they create (I believe) a problem for the software.

By all means continue to quote posts, but please use the delete function to delete all but the necessary material.  After all, we can all return to the relevant post{s} should we wish to refresh our memories over the extended argument.

Quotes can either be used to pick out a specific element of an argument, or can be used to highlight the post/poster being responded to.

[ProfessorDavey]

The only reason I pursue it is because ippy's mantra of "verifiable evidence' is thrown at theists here ad nauseam, yet when asked for evidence, of any conceivably realistic nature, about hie ludicrous claim, he is strangely reticent  -  unless you accept his, " if I say it three times, it's true," argument.

I think the only aspect of Ippy's opinion about teacher's homes that might come close to verifiable evidence, is that it is his personal experience, and I don't think he is saying anything different.

Sure, neither you nor I can verify whether he has visited 200 odd teachers homes, but were we given the time (and cared enough) we could check - he could give all their names and someone could ask those teachers whether he had visited their home. So it is verifiable, although not verified. But again all this would do is give credence to his experience. And even if Ippy had visited all these homes and found them to be either very messy or very tidy, that is merely his experience and does not mean that necessarily all teachers homes follow that trend, unless his small sample was representative.

[cyberman]

Those posters who rely on software to read the posts

That's all of us, isnt it?

[floo]

A quick appeal to those who simply quote a whole post, even if it means that we end up with huge posts that have multiple exchanges within them (as with BA's and ippy's recent posts).  Those posters who rely on software to read the posts struggle with them because they create (I believe) a problem for the software.

By all means continue to quote posts, but please use the delete function to delete all but the necessary material.  After all, we can all return to the relevant post{s} should we wish to refresh our memories over the extended argument.

Quotes can either be used to pick out a specific element of an argument, or can be used to highlight the post/poster being responded to.

Are you referring to posters with sight problems using special software?

[Hope]

Are you referring to posters with sight problems using special software?

I seem to remember Jim bringing this to our attention originally, whilst I was still a moderator.  IIRC, there are 2 or 3 other posters who have similar issues.  Again, iirc, the software doesn't differentiate easily between the various exchanges in these long posts

[OH MY WORLD!]

Yes it is just so funny. Ippy wants us to believe his sweeping claim against teachers, based on his personal experience with no verifiable evidence. Yet the same Ippy demands verifiable evidence on a Christians claim of God's existence and dismisses personal experience as evidence. Too funny you ippy.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes it is just so funny. Ippy wants us to believe his sweeping claim against teachers, based on his personal experience with no verifiable evidence. Yet the same Ippy demands verifiable evidence on a Christians claim of God's existence and dismisses personal experience as evidence. Too funny you ippy.

Nope there is a big difference.

Ippy's claims are verifiable (i.e. able to be checked), they have not been verified (i.e. they haven't actually been checked).

The claims of Christians about what may have happened 2000 years ago are no longer verifiable, and also not verified.

Another big difference is that Ippy's claims are based on two features that are both plausible and accepted. Firstly that teachers exist, and secondly the level of tidiness of people's houses varies. Whether the two are linked is clearly a matter for conjecture, but the basis starting point is accepted as plausible and does not require any pleading to supernaturalism or factors which lie beyond evidence. Again the claims of christians fail that test.

So an equivalent to the implausibility of the christian claim superimposed on Ippy's assertions would be if he claimed that teachers (accepted to exist) have either very tidy or very untidy houses (differences in levels of tidiness being accepted although the link with the teaching profession not being) with the majority of teachers having untidy houses. All plausible and verifiable although not yet verified. And now the implausible bit (the equivalent of the christian claim) - that the reason why most teachers have untidy houses is that they have a supernatural invisible house elf that lives under the stairs and messes up the house. And that no claim to produce evidence for the supernatural invisible house elf because they exist beyond the realm of evidence.

That's the difference between Ippy's claims and those of christians.