Do you believe in hell?

[ippy]

I can explain it to you if you're finding it difficult, it really wouldn't be that much trouble, I love helping people any time I can.

ippy

If you actually know, then why naively use it, when it so aptly describes your post?  As you are so helpful, maybe you could elucidate (another word for you to look up!))

Still got a problem then B A.

ippy

[BashfulAnthony]

I can explain it to you if you're finding it difficult, it really wouldn't be that much trouble, I love helping people any time I can.

ippy

If you actually know, then why naively use it, when it so aptly describes your post?  As you are so helpful, maybe you could elucidate (another word for you to look up!))

Still got a problem then B A.

ippy

What does "elucidate," mean, without looking it up?     

[ippy]

I can explain it to you if you're finding it difficult, it really wouldn't be that much trouble, I love helping people any time I can.

ippy

If you actually know, then why naively use it, when it so aptly describes your post?  As you are so helpful, maybe you could elucidate (another word for you to look up!))

Still got a problem then B A.

ippy

What would be your problem if I were to ask, have you still got a problem?

ippy

What does "elucidate," mean, without looking it up?     

[Walt Zingmatilder]

However, my comments in this thread are not meant to argue ideas about "What the message of the OT really is" (and certainly not what the message of the Bible really is, since there are many viewpoints expressed throughout). I simply wish to reiterate that I agree with Ecclesiastes' unequivocal statement: When you're dead, you're dead.

I don't think anybody disagrees with that, neither is the bible just taking it from man's angle. We are resurrected from death not ''we carry on living but in a different form.''

[trippymonkey]

WHAT ?!?!?!? Like some kind of zombie ?

[jeremyp]

If you do not believe there are no gods, then you must believe in at least one god.

Nope.  A belief that there are gods is not the same as believing in one of them. I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

[cyberman]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth - why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

[Leonard James]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth - why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Because from what science has shown us already, there is a high probability that the conditions for life to begin exist in other planets in the universe.

[BashfulAnthony]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth - why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Because from what science has shown us already, there is a high probability that the conditions for life to begin exist in other planets in the universe.

Name any yet found.  You accuse theists of having no argument, even though there is evidence for their beliefs;  but you make a statement which has not an iota of evidence to back it up.  I see a little inconsistency there!

[floo]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth - why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Because from what science has shown us already, there is a high probability that the conditions for life to begin exist in other planets in the universe.

I think you are right, but are a very long way from Earth, so we haven't made contact as yet. It seems pretty inconceivable that our planet is the only one to host intelligent life in the whole of the vast universe.

[BashfulAnthony]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth - why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Because from what science has shown us already, there is a high probability that the conditions for life to begin exist in other planets in the universe.

I think you are right, but are a very long way from Earth, so we haven't made contact as yet. It seems pretty inconceivable that our planet is the only one to host intelligent life in the whole of the vast universe.

Even if the right conditions applied for the existence of life, it doesn't necessarily mean it will evolve.  So, unless there is evidence, then you have no substantive argument.

[cyberman]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth - why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Because from what science has shown us already, there is a high probability that the conditions for life to begin exist in other planets in the universe.

I think you are right, but are a very long way from Earth, so we haven't made contact as yet. It seems pretty inconceivable that our planet is the only one to host intelligent life in the whole of the vast universe.

Any statistician will tell you that it is literally impossible to assess the probability of there being life elsewhere in the universe,  as we have a sample of one - Earth.  What jeremyp and floo and Let are articulating is nothing more than a mixture of wishful thinking and subjective intuition - the sort of thing you might expect us god-botherers to get up to! 2

[floo]

I don't know about 'wishful thinking'. Humanoids on another planet might someday want to try to do a takeover bid for ours! All I am saying is that whilst we have no evidence that there is intelligent life out there, it would be extremely weird if we were the only planet to host such life.

[cyberman]

I don't know about 'wishful thinking'. Humanoids on another planet might someday want to try to do a takeover bid for ours! All I am saying is that whilst we have no evidence that there is intelligent life out there, it would be extremely weird if we were the only planet to host such life.

Does "weird" mean statistically unlikely,  or just subjectively counter-intuitive? I

[cyberman]

I don't know about 'wishful thinking'. Humanoids on another planet might someday want to try to do a takeover bid for ours! All I am saying is that whilst we have no evidence that there is intelligent life out there, it would be extremely weird if we were the only planet to host such life.

Does "weird" mean statistically unlikely,  or just subjectively counter-intuitive? I

Statistically unlikely that we are the only such planet, imo.

But "statistically' and 'imo' just don't go together,  floo. You're not using statistics at all, not in the slightest. You are bolting the word 'statistically' onto your guess to make it look (or feel) less like a guess. 

[Hope]

I don't know about 'wishful thinking'. Humanoids on another planet might someday want to try to do a takeover bid for ours! All I am saying is that whilst we have no evidence that there is intelligent life out there, it would be extremely weird if we were the only planet to host such life.

Not really, Floo.  There might be life on other planets in other solar systems, but it would be interesting to know the statistical probability of chance creating a planet of sufficient similarity to the Earth to allow humanoids to develop.  IIRC, its pretty slim.

[jeremyp]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth

I thought that was clear from the first sentence where I said "I believe there are other planets with life on them".

- why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Probability.  If I throw a dice and conceal it before anybody sees it, would you believe I had thrown a six?  Probably not.  If I threw a thousand dice and concealed them all before anybody saw them, would you believe that at least one of the throws was a six?  I'd hope so, in spite of the fact that you have no evidence that any particular one came up six.

[cyberman]

I don't know about 'wishful thinking'. Humanoids on another planet might someday want to try to do a takeover bid for ours! All I am saying is that whilst we have no evidence that there is intelligent life out there, it would be extremely weird if we were the only planet to host such life.

Does "weird" mean statistically unlikely,  or just subjectively counter-intuitive? I

Statistically unlikely that we are the only such planet, imo.

But "statistically' and 'imo' just don't go together,  floo. You're not using statistics at all, not in the slightest. You are bolting the word 'statistically' onto your guess to make it look (or feel) less like a guess.

Blimey talk about PEDANTIC!

Floo, that's not pedantry - it's absolutely central to what we're talking about

[Shaker]

I don't know about 'wishful thinking'. Humanoids on another planet might someday want to try to do a takeover bid for ours! All I am saying is that whilst we have no evidence that there is intelligent life out there, it would be extremely weird if we were the only planet to host such life.

Not really, Floo.  There might be life on other planets in other solar systems, but it would be interesting to know the statistical probability of chance creating a planet of sufficient similarity to the Earth to allow humanoids to develop.  IIRC, its pretty slim.

It is. That's probably why there are many people - I'm one of them - who on statistical grounds think that the probability of life elsewhere in the universe is as good as 1, but the likelihood of any of that life being akin to humans is effectively zero.

[Shaker]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth

I thought that was clear from the first sentence where I said "I believe there are other planets with life on them".

- why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Probability.  If I throw a dice and conceal it before anybody sees it, would you believe I had thrown a six?  Probably not.  If I threw a thousand dice and concealed them all before anybody saw them, would you believe that at least one of the throws was a six?  I'd hope so, in spite of the fact that you have no evidence that any particular one came up six.

Brilliant post.

[cyberman]

I believe that there are other planets with life on them in the Universe, but there is no specific planet I know of that has life on it.

Assuming you mean other than Earth

I thought that was clear from the first sentence where I said "I believe there are other planets with life on them".

- why would you believe in something for which there is no evidence?

Probability.  If I throw a dice and conceal it before anybody sees it, would you believe I had thrown a six?  Probably not.  If I threw a thousand dice and concealed them all before anybody saw them, would you believe that at least one of the throws was a six?  I'd hope so, in spite of the fact that you have no evidence that any particular one came up six.

Yes, because with the dice we have exactly the data we need to make that statistical analysis. With planets we just don't. 

We know if it is a six sided dice that after a thousand throws it is likely to have turned up something in the region of 166 sixes. But if it was a thousand sided dice we would not be so sure. If it was a million sided dice we would think it unlikely to throw a six after a thousand throws.

In the case of life on other worlds we have not the foggiest idea how many sides the dice has.

You and floo keep bandying around the word "statistics" - ok then tell me the statistics. And I mean real statistics, not the joker from the sixties who just preloaded his equation with lots of completely arbritary "let's say"s . One in how many planets has life on it? One in a thousand? One in a billion? On in x, where x = the number of planets which actually exist? Go on - your belief is based on stats, so tell me the stats.

[Leonard James]

In the case of life on other worlds we have not the foggiest idea how many sides the dice has.

Rubbish! Off the top of my head I would say that the number of sides is not very high. The planet would have to be composed of elements capable of interaction to form compounds, it would have to be within a certain band of distance from its sun, and probably a few other things which a chemist/biologist would know about, but that's all.

[cyberman]

In the case of life on other worlds we have not the foggiest idea how many sides the dice has.

Rubbish! Off the top of my head I would say that the number of sides is not very high. The planet would have to be composed of elements capable of interaction to form compounds, it would have to be within a certain band of distance from its sun, and probably a few other things which a chemist/biologist would know about, but that's all.

(a) We are talking about planets which have life on them, not planets with conditions capable of sustaining life. The two need not be the same value.

(b) I see the "rubbish" when I say we don't know what the odds are... but I don't see the odds. What are the odds, Len?

[Leonard James]

In the case of life on other worlds we have not the foggiest idea how many sides the dice has.

Rubbish! Off the top of my head I would say that the number of sides is not very high. The planet would have to be composed of elements capable of interaction to form compounds, it would have to be within a certain band of distance from its sun, and probably a few other things which a chemist/biologist would know about, but that's all.

(a) We are talking about planets which have life on them, not planets with conditions capable of sustaining life. The two need not be the same value.

(b) I see the "rubbish" when I say we don't know what the odds are... but I don't see the odds. What are the odds, Len?

I don't know what the odds are any more than you do, but they certainly don't run into the millions you were claiming.

[jeremyp]

Yes, because with the dice we have exactly the data we need to make that statistical analysis. With planets we just don't. 

We know if it is a six sided dice that after a thousand throws it is likely to have turned up something in the region of 166 sixes. But if it was a thousand sided dice we would not be so sure. If it was a million sided dice we would think it unlikely to throw a six after a thousand throws.

In the case of life on other worlds we have not the foggiest idea how many sides the dice has.

You and floo keep bandying around the word "statistics" - ok then tell me the statistics. And I mean real statistics, not the joker from the sixties who just preloaded his equation with lots of completely arbritary "let's say"s . One in how many planets has life on it? One in a thousand? One in a billion? On in x, where x = the number of planets which actually exist? Go on - your belief is based on stats, so tell me the stats.

There aren't only a thousand planets in the Universe.

Anyway, this is all beside the point I was making.  My planet post was in response to Be Rat.s post that not believing there are no gods is equivalent to believing in a god.  The dice example works just as well as a refutation of that.