Do you believe in hell?

[Alien]

So it is only monotheists who think there is unlikely to be intelligent life on other planets?

I am a monotheist, and I don't think it's unlikely that there is intelligent life on other planets.

And even the rather odious C.S. Lewis wrote about such possibilities. He even attempted a re-enactment of the "Original Sin" scenario in one of his novels. I believe trying to give such a specifically Christian slant to such speculations to be especially bonkers, but full marks to him for having the imagination conceive such possibilities.
I'm told that intelligent life has evolved here on earth - though I rather doubt the quoted figures about how much there is - and relatively 'primitive' life has succeeded in the most incredibly hostile environments here, so the idea that life could not evolve elsewhere in such a vast universe seems small-minded and egocentric in the extreme.

Odious? What has that got to do with the arguments being put forward?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146196/Aliens-exist-look-like-HUMANS-Life-planets-evolved-similar-way-Earth-biologist-claims.html

[Hope]

Why are some people so adamant intelligent life on Earth is unique, even though the universe is so vast?

It puts a bit of a dent in their narcissism, I guess. Narcissism and monotheism go hand in hand after all.

I suppose this explains the fact that when asked about Jesus' comment that he has 'other sheep which are not of this fold' (John 10:16), very few Christians - at least - will say that they know what this means since there is no indication whether the 'other folds' referred to, are earthly or universal.  As such, Christianity says absolutely nothing about humanity having a cosmic uniqueness.

[Hope]

Nor does anybody else, but we know enough to claim that the probability of it is not so remote as they like to think.

Not so remote as who like to think, Len?  (See my previous post for the context to this question)

[BeRational]

Why are some people so adamant intelligent life on Earth is unique, even though the universe is so vast?

It puts a bit of a dent in their narcissism, I guess. Narcissism and monotheism go hand in hand after all.

I suppose this explains the fact that when asked about Jesus' comment that he has 'other sheep which are not of this fold' (John 10:16), very few Christians - at least - will say that they know what this means since there is no indication whether the 'other folds' referred to, are earthly or universal.  As such, Christianity says absolutely nothing about humanity having a cosmic uniqueness.

I guarantee that if signals from another civilisation are ever discovered, Christians will very quickly find a passage in the bible that predicted it!

[Leonard James]

Nor does anybody else, but we know enough to claim that the probability of it is not so remote as they like to think.

Not so remote as who like to think, Len?  (See my previous post for the context to this question)

Those who think the the possibility of other life in the universe is remote or zero.

[Hope]

Those who think the the possibility of other life in the universe is remote or zero.

I asked because your post I quoted clearly uses the pronoun 'they' to refer to 'monotheists' in Alien's post you were responding to and I wanted to check that that was what you had intended despite there being nothing in either Old or New Testaments, Jesus' teachings or Jewish and Christian doctrine to support your suggestion.  Are you saying that Islam, Sikhism, Ba'hai, Zoroastrianism and other monotheistic faiths such as elements of Hindusim teach the universal/cosmic uniqueness of life - especially human life?

[Leonard James]

Those who think the the possibility of other life in the universe is remote or zero.

I asked because your post I quoted clearly uses the pronoun 'they' to refer to 'monotheists' in Alien's post you were responding to and I wanted to check that that was what you had intended despite there being nothing in either Old or New Testaments, Jesus' teachings or Jewish and Christian doctrine to support your suggestion.  Are you saying that Islam, Sikhism, Ba'hai, Zoroastrianism and other monotheistic faiths such as elements of Hindusim teach the universal/cosmic uniqueness of life - especially human life?

You know as well as I do that what the various religions "teach" depends on who is referring to them. There appear to be many ways to translate what scriptures mean, but the truth is that the only people who know for sure what they were teaching were the authors, and they are no longer around to refer to.

The only thing I am sure of is that many believers do not accept the idea that there may be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. They believe that "God" created the universe and everything in it for the sole purpose of bringing all humans to believe in him and join him in heaven after earthly death.

[Alien]

Why are some people so adamant intelligent life on Earth is unique, even though the universe is so vast?

It puts a bit of a dent in their narcissism, I guess. Narcissism and monotheism go hand in hand after all.

I suppose this explains the fact that when asked about Jesus' comment that he has 'other sheep which are not of this fold' (John 10:16), very few Christians - at least - will say that they know what this means since there is no indication whether the 'other folds' referred to, are earthly or universal.  As such, Christianity says absolutely nothing about humanity having a cosmic uniqueness.

I guarantee that if signals from another civilisation are ever discovered, Christians will very quickly find a passage in the bible that predicted it!

With 2 billion or so people identifying as Christians, I am sure there will be some.

Do you know of any passages in the Bible which says or implies there is no intelligent life apart from on this planet?

[Hope]

The only thing I am sure of is that many believers do not accept the idea that there may be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. They believe that "God" created the universe and everything in it for the sole purpose of bringing all humans to believe in him and join him in heaven after earthly death.

And the evidence for this 'only thing I am sure of' would be ...?

[BeRational]

Why are some people so adamant intelligent life on Earth is unique, even though the universe is so vast?

It puts a bit of a dent in their narcissism, I guess. Narcissism and monotheism go hand in hand after all.

I suppose this explains the fact that when asked about Jesus' comment that he has 'other sheep which are not of this fold' (John 10:16), very few Christians - at least - will say that they know what this means since there is no indication whether the 'other folds' referred to, are earthly or universal.  As such, Christianity says absolutely nothing about humanity having a cosmic uniqueness.

I guarantee that if signals from another civilisation are ever discovered, Christians will very quickly find a passage in the bible that predicted it!

With 2 billion or so people identifying as Christians, I am sure there will be some.

Do you know of any passages in the Bible which says or implies there is no intelligent life apart from on this planet?

No, but then I do not expect the writers of the bible to have given it any consideration due to the fact they they were totally ignorant of the universe they were in.
I expect what will happen, as has happened in the past, that when some new discovery is found, some idiot will point the some vague passage in the bible and claim it foretold or predicted the event. This is of course nonsense and simply interpreting some vague text to mean what you want it to.
An example might be that some chistians claim that the bible new the world was a sphere and that it hung in space hence it new all about the orbit of the Earth around the Sun etc. Complete nonsense.

The bible only seem able to predict scientific discoveries AFTER science has discovered them.
That shoud give those christians pause for thought.

[Hope]

The bible only seem able to predict scientific discoveries AFTER science has discovered them.
That shoud give those christians pause for thought.

Perhaps you could provide us with examples of scientific discoveries that the Bible predicts AFTER being disovered by science.

[Alien]

Why are some people so adamant intelligent life on Earth is unique, even though the universe is so vast?

It puts a bit of a dent in their narcissism, I guess. Narcissism and monotheism go hand in hand after all.

I suppose this explains the fact that when asked about Jesus' comment that he has 'other sheep which are not of this fold' (John 10:16), very few Christians - at least - will say that they know what this means since there is no indication whether the 'other folds' referred to, are earthly or universal.  As such, Christianity says absolutely nothing about humanity having a cosmic uniqueness.

I guarantee that if signals from another civilisation are ever discovered, Christians will very quickly find a passage in the bible that predicted it!

With 2 billion or so people identifying as Christians, I am sure there will be some.

Do you know of any passages in the Bible which says or implies there is no intelligent life apart from on this planet?

No, but then I do not expect the writers of the bible to have given it any consideration due to the fact they they were totally ignorant of the universe they were in.
I expect what will happen, as has happened in the past, that when some new discovery is found, some idiot will point the some vague passage in the bible and claim it foretold or predicted the event. This is of course nonsense and simply interpreting some vague text to mean what you want it to.
An example might be that some chistians claim that the bible new the world was a sphere and that it hung in space hence it new all about the orbit of the Earth around the Sun etc. Complete nonsense.

The bible only seem able to predict scientific discoveries AFTER science has discovered them.
That shoud give those christians pause for thought.

I agree with you to a large extent. As far as I can tell, the bible does not make scientific claims and people saying it does are incorrect. It does not teach cosmology and this has been recognised by at least some respected Christian leaders for ages. For example John Calvin wrote the following in his commentary on Genesis 1:16, "For, to my mind, this is a certain principle, that nothing is here treated of but the visible form of the world. He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere."

[BeRational]

The bible only seem able to predict scientific discoveries AFTER science has discovered them.
That shoud give those christians pause for thought.

Perhaps you could provide us with examples of scientific discoveries that the Bible predicts AFTER being disovered by science.

That the Earth is a sphere, and orbits the Sun.

[Hope]

That the Earth is a sphere, and orbits the Sun.

There is nothing in the Bible that argues otherwise; remember that the flat-earth idea is a Greek one, not Jewish or Christian

[Dicky Underpants]

the idea that life could not evolve elsewhere in such a vast universe seems small-minded and egocentric in the extreme.

I am not aware of anyone having expressed such an idea, so you seem to be getting terribly indignant about something which hasn't happened!

Oh no, cyber - I wasn't alluding to you. I know perfectly well you weren't implying any such thing.

[Dicky Underpants]

So it is only monotheists who think there is unlikely to be intelligent life on other planets?

I am a monotheist, and I don't think it's unlikely that there is intelligent life on other planets.

And even the rather odious C.S. Lewis wrote about such possibilities. He even attempted a re-enactment of the "Original Sin" scenario in one of his novels. I believe trying to give such a specifically Christian slant to such speculations to be especially bonkers, but full marks to him for having the imagination conceive such possibilities.
I'm told that intelligent life has evolved here on earth - though I rather doubt the quoted figures about how much there is - and relatively 'primitive' life has succeeded in the most incredibly hostile environments here, so the idea that life could not evolve elsewhere in such a vast universe seems small-minded and egocentric in the extreme.

Odious? What has that got to do with the arguments being put forward?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146196/Aliens-exist-look-like-HUMANS-Life-planets-evolved-similar-way-Earth-biologist-claims.html

I think in many ways he was rather odious - that's just my view. However, he was prepared to consider that life on other worlds was entirely plausible - something that some people here seem anxious to deny (quoting statistics on occasion, as if they offered any reasonably argument on these matters)

(And just to placate cyberman yet again, I realised from the first that you weren't among the 'alien-life-deniers'.)

[Alien]

So it is only monotheists who think there is unlikely to be intelligent life on other planets?

I am a monotheist, and I don't think it's unlikely that there is intelligent life on other planets.

And even the rather odious C.S. Lewis wrote about such possibilities. He even attempted a re-enactment of the "Original Sin" scenario in one of his novels. I believe trying to give such a specifically Christian slant to such speculations to be especially bonkers, but full marks to him for having the imagination conceive such possibilities.
I'm told that intelligent life has evolved here on earth - though I rather doubt the quoted figures about how much there is - and relatively 'primitive' life has succeeded in the most incredibly hostile environments here, so the idea that life could not evolve elsewhere in such a vast universe seems small-minded and egocentric in the extreme.

Odious? What has that got to do with the arguments being put forward?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3146196/Aliens-exist-look-like-HUMANS-Life-planets-evolved-similar-way-Earth-biologist-claims.html

I think in many ways he was rather odious - that's just my view. However, he was prepared to consider that life on other worlds was entirely plausible - something that some people here seem anxious to deny (quoting statistics on occasion, as if they offered any reasonably argument on these matters)

(And just to placate cyberman yet again, I realised from the first that you weren't among the 'alien-life-deniers'.)

I won't push any more after this post, but I'm still wondering why your accusing CS Lewis of being odious was relevant to the point you made.

[cyberman]

Nor does anybody else, but we know enough to claim that the probability of it is not so remote as they like to think.

Not so remote as who like to think, Len?  (See my previous post for the context to this question)

Those who think the the possibility of other life in the universe is remote or zero.

And who are they? Are you making up opponents, Len?

[cyberman]

(And just to placate cyberman yet again, I realised from the first that you weren't among the 'alien-life-deniers'.)

Are there any?

[Hope]

However, he was prepared to consider that life on other worlds was entirely plausible - something that some people here seem anxious to deny (quoting statistics on occasion, as if they offered any reasonably argument on these matters)

Perhaps you can 'name and shame' the 'some people here', DU.  I've already asked Len to do something similar, but he hasn't been able to do so yet.

[BeRational]

That the Earth is a sphere, and orbits the Sun.

There is nothing in the Bible that argues otherwise; remember that the flat-earth idea is a Greek one, not Jewish or Christian

You misunderstand. Some Christians use some passage in the bible one where it talks about a circle, and claim this actually means sphere.
I think there is some passage that says the world hangs on nothing and use this to say it means the world in space.

It only meant these things once science had discovered it to be true.

The bible tells us nothing ahead of scientific discovery. Had this really been inspired by some all knowing being,  it made sure that nothing other than was known at the time went in, so that it looks like it was not inspired by a being with even an verage 21st century scientific average understanding, never mind all knowing.

[jeremyp]

There is nothing in the Bible that argues otherwise; remember that the flat-earth idea is a Greek one, not Jewish or Christian

You have it the wrong way round, the spherical Earth idea is Greek, not Jewish.  The Jewish Bible is full of metaphors about the shape of the Earth.  It is referred to as circular, as having four corners, as being immovable and set on pillars, as having tent like heavens, as hanging on nothing.  There is nowhere in the Jewish Bible where it is even hinted that the Earth is spherical.  There are plenty of places where it is hinted that it is not.

[BashfulAnthony]

His model, published in the journal Astrobiology, suggests an upper limit for the probability of each step occurring is 10 per cent or less, so the chances of intelligent life emerging is low – less than 0.01 per cent over four billion years.

That makes no sense without a given volume of space/area as well as time.

This is Shaker, theologian, philosopher, literary expert, now top scientist. I quoted the figures from a scientist, whose knowledge almost certainly dwarfs yours..Yet you have the gaul to make a facetious comment in your self-assumed superiority.  Give some facts as to why you know better.

[Hope]

The bible tells us nothing ahead of scientific discovery. Had this really been inspired by some all knowing being,  it made sure that nothing other than was known at the time went in, so that it looks like it was not inspired by a being with even an verage 21st century scientific average understanding, never mind all knowing.

The Bible doesn't tell us anything of this sort even after scientific discovery. As Alien pointed out at 9.53 this morning,  "As far as I can tell, the bible does not make scientific claims ... . It does not teach cosmology and this has been recognised by at least some respected Christian leaders for ages."  The purpose of the Bible isn't to be a scientific textbook, despite what some creationists might want us to believe; the purpose of the Bible is to explore trhe purpose of humnity and the nature of the creator God.

[BeRational]

The bible tells us nothing ahead of scientific discovery. Had this really been inspired by some all knowing being,  it made sure that nothing other than was known at the time went in, so that it looks like it was not inspired by a being with even an verage 21st century scientific average understanding, never mind all knowing.

The Bible doesn't tell us anything of this sort even after scientific discovery. As Alien pointed out at 9.53 this morning,  "As far as I can tell, the bible does not make scientific claims ... . It does not teach cosmology and this has been recognised by at least some respected Christian leaders for ages."  The purpose of the Bible isn't to be a scientific textbook, despite what some creationists might want us to believe; the purpose of the Bible is to explore trhe purpose of humnity and the nature of the creator God.

But we do see some Christians claiming the bible does indeed have information of this kind. The thing is, it is only AFTER some scientific discovery.