Author Topic: Surat 19 Ayat 20 (Read 6432 times)

2Corrie · « **on:** July 16, 2015, 08:50:41 PM »

"She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?" "

referring to the virgin birth of Isa. What is the significance of this to Muslims?

trippymonkey · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2015, 09:59:17 PM »

None whatsoever! Jesus was only another prophet to Islam although a major one.

cyberman · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2015, 10:58:51 PM »

Quote from: trippymonkey on July 16, 2015, 09:59:17 PM

None whatsoever! Jesus was only another prophet to Islam although a major one.

So which is it? No significance whatsoever, or a "major" prophet? If it is f no significance whatsoever, would it be in the Qur'an?

Hope · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2015, 10:59:57 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 16, 2015, 10:58:51 PM

If it is f no significance whatsoever, would it be in the Qur'an?

I'd go as far as to ask 'Why' would it be in the Qur'an?

trippymonkey · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:54:03 AM »

WELL
We wouldn't want any other 'prophets' to be better than a later - final one, would we

?

cyberman · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2015, 10:46:36 AM »

Quote from: trippymonkey on July 17, 2015, 07:54:03 AM

WELL
We wouldn't want any other 'prophets' to be better than a later - final one, would we ?

No, that's right. So which is it? Completely insignificant, or major?

JP · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:00:05 AM »

Completely and utterly insignificant, surely?

As are all the others.

cyberman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:04:33 AM »

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 11:00:05 AM

Completely and utterly insignificant, surely?

As are all the others.

Read the thread. The issue is whether he is relevant to Muslims, not to you. (It isn't all about you!)

trippymonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:10:08 AM »

What is the significance of this to Muslims?

Sorry WHAT does THIS say?

From OP?
NOT YOU muslims but TO Muslims !?!?!?

cyberman · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:23:29 AM »

Quote from: trippymonkey on July 17, 2015, 11:10:08 AM

What is the significance of this to Muslims?

Sorry WHAT does THIS say? From OP?
NOT YOU muslims but TO Muslims !?!?!?

I didn't claim there was any significance. You said that to Muslims Jesus is a major prophet. You also said that he had no significance whatsoever to Muslims. Which is it?

JP · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:05:12 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 11:04:33 AM

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 11:00:05 AM
Completely and utterly insignificant, surely?

As are all the others.

Read the thread. The issue is whether he is relevant to Muslims, not to you. (It isn't all about you!)

It is my opinion on the issue, nothing to do with me.

cyberman · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:15:13 PM »

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 12:05:12 PM

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 11:04:33 AM
Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 11:00:05 AM
Completely and utterly insignificant, surely?

As are all the others.

Read the thread. The issue is whether he is relevant to Muslims, not to you. (It isn't all about you!)

It is my opinion on the issue, nothing to do with me.

If you think Jesus is completely and utterly insignificant to Muslims, why do you think he, and the Virgin Birth, are mentioned at length in the Qur'an and is considered to be a major prophet of that religion?

JP · « **Reply #12 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:34:56 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:15:13 PM

If you think Jesus is completely and utterly insignificant to Muslims, why do you think he, and the Virgin Birth, are mentioned at length in the Qur'an and is considered to be a major prophet of that religion?

He appears because the Quran is a plagiarised version of the Bible, and if he is a major prophet, what example of his do Muslims follow?

cyberman · « **Reply #13 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:36:28 PM »

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 12:34:56 PM

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:15:13 PM
If you think Jesus is completely and utterly insignificant to Muslims, why do you think he, and the Virgin Birth, are mentioned at length in the Qur'an and is considered to be a major prophet of that religion?

He appears because the Quran is a plagiarised version of the Bible, and if he is a major prophet, what example of his do Muslims follow?

I have no idea. But he is regarded in Islam as a major prophet, and Muslims do believe in the virgin birth.

Leonard James · « **Reply #14 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:10:11 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:36:28 PM

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 12:34:56 PM
Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:15:13 PM
If you think Jesus is completely and utterly insignificant to Muslims, why do you think he, and the Virgin Birth, are mentioned at length in the Qur'an and is considered to be a major prophet of that religion?

He appears because the Quran is a plagiarised version of the Bible, and if he is a major prophet, what example of his do Muslims follow?

I have no idea. But he is regarded in Islam as a major prophet, and Muslims do believe in the virgin birth.

A lot of them are credulous enough to believe anything their leaders tell them.

JP · « **Reply #15 on:** July 17, 2015, 01:31:02 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:36:28 PM

I have no idea. But he is regarded in Islam as a major prophet, and Muslims do believe in the virgin birth.

I have heard him referred to as a "prophet in Islam" but never as a "major prophet". If he was such an important figure surely he would influence the religion somehow but I am at a loss to see where this is.

cyberman · « **Reply #16 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:13:21 PM »

Quote from: Leonard James on July 17, 2015, 01:10:11 PM

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:36:28 PM
Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 12:34:56 PM
Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:15:13 PM
If you think Jesus is completely and utterly insignificant to Muslims, why do you think he, and the Virgin Birth, are mentioned at length in the Qur'an and is considered to be a major prophet of that religion?

He appears because the Quran is a plagiarised version of the Bible, and if he is a major prophet, what example of his do Muslims follow?

I have no idea. But he is regarded in Islam as a major prophet, and Muslims do believe in the virgin birth.

A lot of them are credulous enough to believe anything their leaders tell them.

What does that have to do with what's being discussed?

BashfulAnthony · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:17:28 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 02:13:21 PM

Quote from: Leonard James on July 17, 2015, 01:10:11 PM
Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:36:28 PM
Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 12:34:56 PM
Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:15:13 PM
If you think Jesus is completely and utterly insignificant to Muslims, why do you think he, and the Virgin Birth, are mentioned at length in the Qur'an and is considered to be a major prophet of that religion?

He appears because the Quran is a plagiarised version of the Bible, and if he is a major prophet, what example of his do Muslims follow?

I have no idea. But he is regarded in Islam as a major prophet, and Muslims do believe in the virgin birth.

A lot of them are credulous enough to believe anything their leaders tell them.

What does that have to do with what's being discussed?

Take no notice, that's just Leonard rolling out one of his templates.

cyberman · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:22:44 PM »

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 01:31:02 PM

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 12:36:28 PM
I have no idea. But he is regarded in Islam as a major prophet, and Muslims do believe in the virgin birth.

I have heard him referred to as a "prophet in Islam" but never as a "major prophet". If he was such an important figure surely he would influence the religion somehow but I am at a loss to see where this is.

http://www.ezsoftech.com/stories/isa.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

Well, if the Qur'an is just a plagiarised version of the Bible, then surely the influence of Christian thought is everywhere, isn't it?

JP · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:30:46 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 02:22:44 PM

Well, if the Qur'an is just a plagiarised version of the Bible, then surely the influence of Christian thought is everywhere, isn't it?

Not really because this story ends with Mohammed, the prophet of Islam. For this religion Jesus would may have well not existed.

cyberman · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:32:38 PM »

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 02:30:46 PM

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 02:22:44 PM
Well, if the Qur'an is just a plagiarised version of the Bible, then surely the influence of Christian thought is everywhere, isn't it?

Not really because this story ends with Mohammed, the prophet of Islam. For this religion Jesus would may have well not existed.

But Jesus was hundreds of years before Mohammed! He is all over the Qur'an. How did they base their religion on a plagiarised re-writing of the bible yet fail to be influenced by Christian thought?

JP · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:42:33 PM »

So there's some stories of Jesus in the Muslim holy book, big deal. The story ends with Mohammed. If this is not so and Jesus had influence what do Muslims follow as an example of Jesus and his teachings, how do these affect Muslims in practising their faith.

cyberman · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2015, 02:45:24 PM »

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 02:42:33 PM

So there's some stories of Jesus in the Muslim holy book, big deal.

And they believe he is the Messiah, born of a Virgin, and that he will come again at the end of the world, and he is referred to as a great prophet....

2Corrie · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2015, 07:37:21 PM »

Quote from: cyberman on July 17, 2015, 02:45:24 PM

Quote from: JP on July 17, 2015, 02:42:33 PM
So there's some stories of Jesus in the Muslim holy book, big deal.

And they believe he is the Messiah, born of a Virgin, and that he will come again at the end of the world, and he is referred to as a great prophet....

That is true, however their interpretation of messiah is not the same. Coming back to the OP, the Quran instructs Muslims to ask the 'people of the book' if they do not know.

"And We sent not before you, [O Muhammad], except men to whom We revealed [the message], so ask the people of the message if you do not know. "Surat 21 Ayat 7

What answer would they receive from the people of the book except Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel." Immanuel = God with us

I wonder if Muslims realise the implications of Surat 19:20?

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Author Topic: Surat 19 Ayat 20 (Read 6432 times)