Author Topic: Information & knowledge  (Read 16426 times)

Sriram

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Information & knowledge
« on: July 19, 2015, 02:31:33 PM »
Hi everyone,

The pictures of Pluto are amazing and all praise to the scientists and engineers who made it possible. Ok....but this raises the question....what is its usefulness? We live in an age of information ..... more and more information without really having any better understanding of the universe and our lives.

I know the usual argument is about crossing frontiers.....'people said the same thing about Columbus and his journey....look how useful it was'.....and so on 

Actually, the comparison is not very meaningful considering the nature of the cosmos and natural human limitations.  The original motivation for space exploration was about doing better than the Soviet Union and a little later it was about finding other places to colonize if the earth becomes uninhabitable.  Now we know that we cannot possibly colonize any other planet in the solar system let alone other exoplanets. We now realize (I hope) that we are rooted to the earth and better look after it well if we want to continue to exist. Moving to other planets and exoplanets is out of the question.

One point is that all information is not necessarily knowledge. By knowledge I mean something that helps us grow intellectually and is also useful to us in our lives.  Knowledge should be  about forming a big picture view of life in general by adding relevant information wherever necessary.....and our lives should figure in it in some way....IMO.  Random information can be more of a clutter.

Secondly, people  can get addicted to information. Some people can actually start believing that all information is knowledge and derive pleasure from acquiring such information.  Intellectual need is also just a need like hunger, sleep or sex. It is possible to get addicted to the pleasurable sensation we experience when we satisfy these needs.  The same thing can happen to the intellectual need also. Many people  could begin to think that information is an end in itself...at any cost. This is questionable.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram

« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 03:22:02 PM by Sriram »

jeremyp

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 05:26:45 PM »

The pictures of Pluto are amazing and all praise to the scientists and engineers who made it possible. Ok....but this raises the question....what is its usefulness?
It depends on whether you consider understanding the Universe to be useful or not.

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without really having any better understanding of the universe.

Rubbish, our understanding of the Universe improves with every scientific advance.


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Secondly, people  can get addicted to information.

It's better to be addicted to information than disinformation like religionists.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 06:05:44 PM by jeremyp »
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SweetPea

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 05:38:51 PM »
Yes, there's more than a subtle difference isn't there. We are fed information that is like 'wallpaper' turning our minds into mush. The media is the main culprit. The internet and mobile 'phones are very addictive.

We naturally crave knowledge, but it's learning to discern and decode to find true knowledge.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

Shaker

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 05:42:15 PM »
Italics alert. What counts as true knowledge?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

OH MY WORLD!

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2015, 05:43:04 PM »
Very true SweetPea.

jeremyp

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2015, 06:06:34 PM »
Italics alert. What counts as true knowledge?

What Sweetpea believes to be true.
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Shaker

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2015, 06:06:59 PM »
Thought it might be.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

SweetPea

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2015, 07:43:50 PM »
Italics alert. What counts as true knowledge?

What Sweetpea believes to be true.

No, knowledge that anyone can find to be true.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and of love and of a sound mind ~ 2 Timothy 1:7

jeremyp

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2015, 08:28:47 PM »
Italics alert. What counts as true knowledge?

What Sweetpea believes to be true.

No, knowledge that anyone can find to be true.

How do you personally "discern and decode" true knowledge?
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Leonard James

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 08:58:59 PM »

No, knowledge that anyone can find to be true.

By what process?

cyberman

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 10:54:31 PM »

No, knowledge that anyone can find to be true.

By what process?
Perhaps the same process by which you divine your certainty about the odds of there being life on other planets...

Shaker

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2015, 10:59:47 PM »
Who has claimed certainty about life on planets other than Earth?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

cyberman

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2015, 11:00:49 PM »
Who has claimed certainty about life on planets other than Earth?

Leonard has claimed certainty about the odds. He says he is certain that the odds are not in the millions.

Shaker

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2015, 11:01:37 PM »
He's right.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2015, 11:06:03 PM »
He's right.

He's wrong.    Read, "Do you believe in Hell,"  M107.
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It is my commandment that you love one another."

cyberman

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2015, 11:29:17 PM »
He's right.

Go on then. What are the odds of there being life on another planet? (And I know you're not going to use that 60s guy who loaded his equation with guesses...)

Shaker

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2015, 11:39:26 PM »
Do you have some sort of problem with the aged?

But that's not the real issue. As per #12 you said that Len has claimed that the odds (of life elsewhere in the cosmos) are not in the millions. Correct; they're not.

Nowhere have I seen Len claim certainty. Len is a sceptic, as am I; by definition we don't do that sort of thing.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 11:45:21 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

jeremyp

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2015, 11:40:41 PM »


Go on then. What are the odds of there being life on another planet?

What?  on one particlular  planet?  One of the hundreds of billions in this galaxy (except this one), one of the hundreds of billions in any one of the hundreds of billions of galaxies in the visible Universe or one of the potentially infinite number in the entire Universe?
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cyberman

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2015, 11:49:15 PM »


Go on then. What are the odds of there being life on another planet?

What?  on one particlular  planet?  One of the hundreds of billions in this galaxy (except this one), one of the hundreds of billions in any one of the hundreds of billions of galaxies in the visible Universe or one of the potentially infinite number in the entire Universe?

Any planet at all other than on Earth

jeremyp

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2015, 11:55:57 PM »


Go on then. What are the odds of there being life on another planet?

What?  on one particlular  planet?  One of the hundreds of billions in this galaxy (except this one), one of the hundreds of billions in any one of the hundreds of billions of galaxies in the visible Universe or one of the potentially infinite number in the entire Universe?

Any planet at all other than on Earth

I'd say the odds that there is life elsewhere in the Universe approach 100%
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cyberman

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2015, 12:02:37 AM »


Go on then. What are the odds of there being life on another planet?

What?  on one particlular  planet?  One of the hundreds of billions in this galaxy (except this one), one of the hundreds of billions in any one of the hundreds of billions of galaxies in the visible Universe or one of the potentially infinite number in the entire Universe?

Any planet at all other than on Earth

I'd say the odds that there is life elsewhere in the Universe approach 100%

You would say it? Or you do say it? If you do say it, what data are you using to calculate these odds? What does "approach" mean in this context?

Sriram

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2015, 05:35:20 AM »
Yes, there's more than a subtle difference isn't there. We are fed information that is like 'wallpaper' turning our minds into mush. The media is the main culprit. The internet and mobile 'phones are very addictive.

We naturally crave knowledge, but it's learning to discern and decode to find true knowledge.

Yes.  Knowledge is not just information but also includes how the information is processed. It includes our mental programming and how we analyse the information.

Even with little information... if the processing is sophisticated...great knowledge can be gained. Even with lots of information...if the processing is rudimentary...little knowledge can be gained.

jeremyp

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2015, 06:43:00 AM »

You would say it? Or you do say it? If you do say it, what data are you using to calculate these odds?

Infinite number of planets x small but non zero probability.

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What does "approach" mean in this context?
Comes close to.
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L.A.

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2015, 06:45:14 AM »


Go on then. What are the odds of there being life on another planet?

What?  on one particlular  planet?  One of the hundreds of billions in this galaxy (except this one), one of the hundreds of billions in any one of the hundreds of billions of galaxies in the visible Universe or one of the potentially infinite number in the entire Universe?

Any planet at all other than on Earth

I'd say the odds that there is life elsewhere in the Universe approach 100%

Given the size of the universe, that must be true. Suitable conditions for life must exist in billions of locations, so it seems a good bet that life must have started in at least some of them.
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cyberman

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Re: Information & knowledge
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2015, 06:49:41 AM »

You would say it? Or you do say it? If you do say it, what data are you using to calculate these odds?

Infinite number of planets x small but non zero probability.

What makes you think there's an infinite number of planets? If you build in arbitrary premises like this then you will get the conclusion you are looking for. OF course if you start with the unevidenced claim that there are an infinite number of planets, you can then use that to back up any claim, like "squirrels play tennis".

Comes close to.

How close? What are the odds?