Child Prostitution

[Leonard James]

It is sobering, if not depressing, to realise that the process of evolution which gave us all life, works in such a haphazard manner. It produces all kinds of genetic variations, some of which repel us like this one, in its blundering blindness.

Another reason to believe that no great consciousness is behind it.

[Hope]

It is sobering, if not depressing, to realise that the process of evolution which gave us all life, works in such a haphazard manner. It produces all kinds of genetic variations, some of which repel us like this one, in its blundering blindness.

Another reason to believe that no great consciousness is behind it.

And equally a good reason to believe that evolution isn't the overall panacea that some here would like us to believe.  Rather, the probability of some purpose that has been damaged by human wilfullness is increased.  After all, these more repulsive variations are statistically few and far between.

[Leonard James]

It is sobering, if not depressing, to realise that the process of evolution which gave us all life, works in such a haphazard manner. It produces all kinds of genetic variations, some of which repel us like this one, in its blundering blindness.

Another reason to believe that no great consciousness is behind it.

And equally a good reason to believe that evolution isn't the overall panacea that some here would like us to believe.  Rather, the probability of some purpose that has been damaged by human wilfullness is increased.  After all, these more repulsive variations are statistically few and far between.

I don't see how you can say that such mutations are "few and far between" when they occur in large numbers in every generation.

[Sriram]

Regardless of the general shock and indignation over pedophilia.....it seems to be fairly widespread in many parts of the civilized world. It is in fact growing rapidly due to internet access.  Little we can do except sigh and move on it seems! 

Big shots and people in high places are already patrons of this sort of thing. How dangerous that can be is difficult to imagine.

[Leonard James]

Regardless of the general shock and indignation over pedophilia.....it seems to be fairly widespread in many parts of the civilized world. It is in fact growing rapidly due to internet access.  Little we can do except sigh and move on it seems! 

Big shots and people in high places are already patrons of this sort of thing. How dangerous that can be is difficult to imagine.

And the uncivilised world. It is a natural phenomena.

Like every other antisocial activity we can only try to prevent/control/punish it.

[Sriram]

Regardless of the general shock and indignation over pedophilia.....it seems to be fairly widespread in many parts of the civilized world. It is in fact growing rapidly due to internet access.  Little we can do except sigh and move on it seems! 

Big shots and people in high places are already patrons of this sort of thing. How dangerous that can be is difficult to imagine.

Like every other antisocial activity we can only try to prevent/control/punish it.

The point is that with the patronage of the high and mighty...it is probably not even seen as an antisocial activity in some circles. Porn is free, prostitution is common place, illicit sex is normal. Children used sexually could increasingly be seen as just an extension of all this 'freedom'.....a part of the liberal society.

 

[Leonard James]

Regardless of the general shock and indignation over pedophilia.....it seems to be fairly widespread in many parts of the civilized world. It is in fact growing rapidly due to internet access.  Little we can do except sigh and move on it seems! 

Big shots and people in high places are already patrons of this sort of thing. How dangerous that can be is difficult to imagine.

Like every other antisocial activity we can only try to prevent/control/punish it.

The point is that with the patronage of the high and mighty...it is probably not even seen as an antisocial activity in some circles. Porn is free, prostitution is common place, illicit sex is normal. Children used sexually could increasingly be seen as just an extension of all this 'freedom'.....a part of the liberal society.

Thankfully, I do not have that vision of the future.

[Rhiannon]

Regardless of the general shock and indignation over pedophilia.....it seems to be fairly widespread in many parts of the civilized world. It is in fact growing rapidly due to internet access.  Little we can do except sigh and move on it seems! 

Big shots and people in high places are already patrons of this sort of thing. How dangerous that can be is difficult to imagine.

Like every other antisocial activity we can only try to prevent/control/punish it.

The point is that with the patronage of the high and mighty...it is probably not even seen as an antisocial activity in some circles. Porn is free, prostitution is common place, illicit sex is normal. Children used sexually could increasingly be seen as just an extension of all this 'freedom'.....a part of the liberal society.

Victorian Britain - one of the most religious, uptight societies - had vast numbers of child prostitutes - indeed prostitution of all kinds - as well as a thriving trade in pornographic material.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Armstrong_case

[Harrowby Hall]

It is sobering, if not depressing, to realise that the process of evolution which gave us all life, works in such a haphazard manner. It produces all kinds of genetic variations, some of which repel us like this one, in its blundering blindness.

Another reason to believe that no great consciousness is behind it.

I don't really see thar evolution has anything to with this - except, of course, that evolution has produced a human sexuality which is more more complex and involved than any which occurs elsewhere in the animal world.

I think that paraphilias are most likely to have developed as a result of interactions between inheritance and environment, learning in other words, at sensitive stages in the process of maturation - influenced by culture.

[Udayana]

Agree that genetics/evolution is only indirectly related, much more due to early experiences and later culture.

[Udayana]

Regardless of the general shock and indignation over pedophilia.....it seems to be fairly widespread in many parts of the civilized world. It is in fact growing rapidly due to internet access.  Little we can do except sigh and move on it seems! 

Big shots and people in high places are already patrons of this sort of thing. How dangerous that can be is difficult to imagine.

Like every other antisocial activity we can only try to prevent/control/punish it.

The point is that with the patronage of the high and mighty...it is probably not even seen as an antisocial activity in some circles. Porn is free, prostitution is common place, illicit sex is normal. Children used sexually could increasingly be seen as just an extension of all this 'freedom'.....a part of the liberal society.

Victorian Britain - one of the most religious, uptight societies - had vast numbers of child prostitutes - indeed prostitution of all kinds - as well as a thriving trade in pornographic material.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Armstrong_case

Yes, I can't see why "liberal society" would have anything to do with child exploitation and abuse. Can we even say that  child abuse and prostitution is even increasing? If it is, isn't it more likely to be due to access to vulnerable children (eg through internet, travel, migration etc) than any fundamental change in peoples values?

It is "liberal society" that recognizes rights and protection for women and children that "traditional" society does not.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, I can't see why "liberal society" would have anything to do with child exploitation and abuse. Can we even say that  child abuse and prostitution is even increasing? If it is, isn't it more likely to be due to access to vulnerable children (eg through internet, travel, migration etc) than any fundamental change in peoples values?

It is "liberal society" that recognizes rights and protection for women and children that "traditional" society does not.

Which I suppose is why it might be seen as increasing since previously it wasn't recognised. I don't think there is a clear statement in the thread about how this could even be measured, or indeed what is being measured.

[Aruntraveller]

Nothing much to do with a 'Liberal society'.

It occurs everywhere in all different societies.

I ask myself is India a liberal society?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-21352102

[OH MY WORLD!]

I've been waiting for Sriram to do the honest thing and post the entire article. I've read it and Sriram has been very selective on what he posted. He has omitted all the sentences that speak about progress being made and the part about the judge being very concerned for the young girl and the judge having the journalist meet the girl and so and so forth.

I also notice that Sriram is again pointing a finger at the western world while there are over one million child prostitutes in his beloved India. India where the law enforcement is often times in on the illegal prostitution of young girls. Child prostitution in India is epidemic.

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2014/03/06/indias-child-trafficking-epidemic/

[Nearly Sane]

I've been waiting for Sriram to do the honest thing and post the entire article. I've read it and Sriram has been very selective on what he posted. He has omitted all the sentences that speak about progress being made and the part about the judge being very concerned for the young girl and the judge having the journalist meet the girl and so and so forth.

I also notice that Sriram is again pointing a finger at the western world while there are over one million child prostitutes in his beloved India. India where the law enforcement is often times in on the illegal prostitution of young girls. Child prostitution in India is epidemic.

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2014/03/06/indias-child-trafficking-epidemic/

Oh good, there are kids being sold into a form of sexual slavery and we want to argue about who is worse at doing it.

[OH MY WORLD!]

You haven't read the article Mr. Nearly, you have been fed a dishonest report from Sriram. Dishonest through omission. We have a pattern of finger pointing at the west and he specifically mentions the liberal west. Do you not care that India's child prostitution is epidemic, you want to go at me for mentioning it? Then you care as much about India's child prostitution explosion as Sriram does. Why else really would you be barking from your soap box because I dared to point this reality out. Shame on you. I won't tolerate people that point fingers at others for things that they themselves have a problem with. Now slither down off your high horse Mr. Nearly, and have a cookie.

[Sriram]

I've been waiting for Sriram to do the honest thing and post the entire article. I've read it and Sriram has been very selective on what he posted. He has omitted all the sentences that speak about progress being made and the part about the judge being very concerned for the young girl and the judge having the journalist meet the girl and so and so forth.

I also notice that Sriram is again pointing a finger at the western world while there are over one million child prostitutes in his beloved India. India where the law enforcement is often times in on the illegal prostitution of young girls. Child prostitution in India is epidemic.

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2014/03/06/indias-child-trafficking-epidemic/

I expected some such over the top defensive reaction from you....Johnny.

I could not link the first article in the OP because it was rejected by the system...I got a Forbidden message.  I have however given basic excerpts of what the article is about. Anyone can go to CNN and read the full article if they want.  The second article... I have linked. So read it.

I am merely pointing out relevant areas of concern in your countries, for discussion. You are the one pointing fingers.

Let me add that 300000 child prostitutes in the US works out to about 0.1 % while 1 million (?) child prostitutes in a population of 1.3 billion in India works out to less than that! 

In any case, could you stay on the subject instead of digressing...please?!

[Nearly Sane]

You haven't read the article Mr. Nearly, you have been fed a dishonest report from Sriram. Dishonest through omission. We have a pattern of finger pointing at the west and he specifically mentions the liberal west. Do you not care that India's child prostitution is epidemic, you want to go at me for mentioning it? Then you care as much about India's child prostitution explosion as Sriram does. Why else really would you be barking from your soap box because I dared to point this reality out. Shame on you. I won't tolerate people that point fingers at others for things that they themselves have a problem with. Now slither down off your high horse Mr. Nearly, and have a cookie.

I'm not having a go at you for mentioning anything to do with India, read what I wrote and not what you have filled in. Your reaction to Sriram is a classic tu quoque fallacy. I don't care where has the worse problem with child prostitution , I care about dealing with it wherever it is, though I have more chance of doing something about it in the UK because that is where I live. This bickering about where has a worse problem is childish and does nothing to address the problem.

[OH MY WORLD!]

What doesn't address a problem is constantly pointing a finger at others and ignoring that very problem in your own back yard, acting like you don't have a problem. Good grief. Now have a cookie Nearly.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Mr.Nearly,
You mention addressing the problem. Well yes, but by Sriram's dishonesty through omission, he leads us to think that they are not trying to address the problem. Read the full article, they are trying including that judge. And since you are being so critical that I have pointed all this out, what are you doing exactly to stop child prostitution? Probably as much as I. Letting our tax dollars be used by those that know what they are doing.

[Nearly Sane]

Mr.Nearly,
You mention addressing the problem. Well yes, but by Sriram's dishonesty through omission, he leads us to think that they are not trying to address the problem. Read the full article, they are trying including that judge. And since you are being so critical that I have pointed all this out, what are you doing exactly to stop child prostitution? Probably as much as I. Letting our tax dollars be used by those that know what they are doing.

So what happpned with Jimmy Savile here was fine with you, That was those people who knew what they were doing. The losing of files on child abuse by govt is ok. What happened in Rotherham is all great because those people get our taxes and they know what they are doing.

[OH MY WORLD!]

I'm sorry Mr. Nearly, that you hold no faith in law enforcement, charities, child advocate orgs. judges and courts, women's shelters and so on. How awful that you feel your tax dollars are being wasted by these incompetent buffoons. Mr. Nearly can do it better. So again, what exactly are you doing to end child prostitution? Your arrogance and looking down your nose is saving no child I'm sorry to inform you. Unlike you, I count on my tax dollars being used by these groups to fight against child prostitution. Why? Because they have the education and experience to work with these children, because they have the education and experience to fight against those that exploit the children. What does Mr. Nearly know about this that they do not? ZILCH and you will get no tax dollars nor be listened to as any kind of expert. You know nothing about saving these children, you're just too full of yourself is all.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm sorry Mr. Nearly, that you hold no faith in law enforcement, charities, child advocate orgs. judges and courts, women's shelters and so on. How awful that you feel your tax dollars are being wasted by these incompetent buffoons. Mr. Nearly can do it better. So again, what exactly are you doing to end child prostitution? Your arrogance and looking down your nose is saving no child I'm sorry to inform you. Unlike you, I count on my tax dollars being used by these groups to fight against child prostitution. Why? Because they have the education and experience to work with these children, because they have the education and experience to fight against those that exploit the children. What does Mr. Nearly know about this that they do not? ZILCH and you will get no tax dollars nor be listened to as any kind of expert. You know nothing about saving these children, you're just too full of yourself is all.

I forgive you

[OH MY WORLD!]

So you are just hot air then Mr. Nearly. It was quite obvious. You mouth off at others but know nothing and do nothing to stop child prostitution. Oh, and your Jimmy guy, I never heard of him until you all started talking about him around here. Can't point your bony finger at me on that one. You on the other han,. knew of this guy for decades, seen him, watched him, listened to him. He's YOUR dead pervert, not mine.
Hey dude, I'm still waiting for you to tell us what you would do better and are doing to stop child prostitution. I am still waiting for you to actually read the full article and see for yourself the dishonest of what Sriram did here.

[cyberman]

So you are just hot air then Mr. Nearly. It was quite obvious. You mouth off at others but know nothing and do nothing to stop child prostitution. Oh, and your Jimmy guy, I never heard of him until you all started talking about him around here. Can't point your bony finger at me on that one. You on the other han,. knew of this guy for decades, seen him, watched him, listened to him. He's YOUR dead pervert, not mine.
Hey dude, I'm still waiting for you to tell us what you would do better and are doing to stop child prostitution. I am still waiting for you to actually read the full article and see for yourself the dishonest of what Sriram did here.

I can't play the organ.

Say I go to an organ recital and listen to one of Buxtehude's preludes - and it's all wrong; the organist is playing bum notes left right and centre, it's all off key and jarring.

Am I allowed to say "this organist is rubbish - he isn't doing his job properly, etc.."? Would I only be allowed to say that if I could, or thought I could, do better?

If professionals are falling down on the job and people are getting hurt because of their incompetence and/or dishonesty, we are allowed to point it out.

You ask what NS is doing about it - well as private citizens there isn't much we can do directly, but one thing we can do is point out when the systems and the professionals entrusted with operating those systems are failing. That is doing something about it, to an extent. So in the same breath you are taunting NS for not doing anything about it, and berating him for what he is doing about it.

Our lack of faith in the law enforcement system is based upon the fact that it has failed, which is not in dispute. That doesn't mean it fails every time, but it does mean that we are not assured of its efficacy. Would it be better if we just shut up and pretended everything was ok?