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Author Topic: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2  (Read 2720 times)

Hope

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Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« on: July 20, 2015, 09:21:33 AM »
It seems that the debate on this issue is now moving towards privacy matters.  Should the Royals' archives be being opened to public scrutiny?  Do/should public figures - such as a monarch/President/main politicians/celebrities necessarily live under a different privacy regime to the ordinary citizen?
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Anchorman

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2015, 09:38:33 AM »
Quote from: Hope on July 20, 2015, 09:21:33 AM
It seems that the debate on this issue is now moving towards privacy matters.  Should the Royals' archives be being opened to public scrutiny?  Do/should public figures - such as a monarch/President/main politicians/celebrities necessarily live under a different privacy regime to the ordinary citizen?


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It appears that this footage might have been issued 'in error' as part of a request for footage by documentary makers who were preparing material on royal childhood.
Whether in error or not, it is part of the childhood of a pair of royals.
Censoring it would be tantamount to turning the documentary into propaganda.
The 'firm' can't have it both ways: either they are open in such matters, or release nothing.
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Udayana

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 10:37:39 AM »
No, private family footage should remain private unless explicitly released for a stated use, just as for any other family.

Even for pictures owned by others, iirc, if consent has not been obtained faces are supposed to be pixelated out if published etc.
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Anchorman

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2015, 11:04:39 AM »
Quote from: Udayana on July 20, 2015, 10:37:39 AM
No, private family footage should remain private unless explicitly released for a stated use, just as for any other family.

Even for pictures owned by others, iirc, if consent has not been obtained faces are supposed to be pixelated out if published etc.


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So documentaries on the royals - or anyone else - should only show the things they approve of?
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Hope

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2015, 11:14:00 AM »
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 11:04:39 AM
So documentaries on the royals - or anyone else - should only show the things they approve of?
Isn't that part of the argument (which I disagree with, by the way) for this European law on the 'right to be forgotten' which means that Google and other search engines are having to remove links to certain stories, etc.?
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Udayana

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2015, 11:51:46 AM »
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: Udayana on July 20, 2015, 10:37:39 AM
No, private family footage should remain private unless explicitly released for a stated use, just as for any other family.

Even for pictures owned by others, iirc, if consent has not been obtained faces are supposed to be pixelated out if published etc.


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So documentaries on the royals - or anyone else - should only show the things they approve of?

No, that's not what I was saying. A documentary can show other footage, but should not include private footage without consent. If someone makes a documentary about you, you would hardly be happy for them to be able to raid your private archives and spin anything they find one way or another.

If they thought you had committed a crime they could of course report you to the authorities who would be able to obtain any relevant evidence under warrant.

Similarly, am against people taking pictures at long range, snooping on private behaviour etc.

The "right to be forgotten" is a different matter, a travesty really.
 
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Enki

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2015, 03:10:42 PM »
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: Udayana on July 20, 2015, 10:37:39 AM
No, private family footage should remain private unless explicitly released for a stated use, just as for any other family.

Even for pictures owned by others, iirc, if consent has not been obtained faces are supposed to be pixelated out if published etc.


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So documentaries on the royals - or anyone else - should only show the things they approve of?

I think Udayana makes some good points. I also think that your comments don't follow from what she is saying.
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Anchorman

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2015, 04:15:13 PM »
Quote from: enki on July 20, 2015, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: Udayana on July 20, 2015, 10:37:39 AM
No, private family footage should remain private unless explicitly released for a stated use, just as for any other family.

Even for pictures owned by others, iirc, if consent has not been obtained faces are supposed to be pixelated out if published etc.


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So documentaries on the royals - or anyone else - should only show the things they approve of?

I think Udayana makes some good points. I also think that your comments don't follow from what she is saying.


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The royals were perfectly happy to release material to documentary makers which showed them in a good light - going right back to images of George, Liz and the two gals bycycling in Windsor great park - a united family, don't y'know.
But to get a balanced picture, the stuff they would rather not be seen doing needs airing as well.
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"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Enki

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2015, 04:56:06 PM »
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 04:15:13 PM
Quote from: enki on July 20, 2015, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: Udayana on July 20, 2015, 10:37:39 AM
No, private family footage should remain private unless explicitly released for a stated use, just as for any other family.

Even for pictures owned by others, iirc, if consent has not been obtained faces are supposed to be pixelated out if published etc.


-
So documentaries on the royals - or anyone else - should only show the things they approve of?

I think Udayana makes some good points. I also think that your comments don't follow from what she is saying.


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The royals were perfectly happy to release material to documentary makers which showed them in a good light - going right back to images of George, Liz and the two gals bycycling in Windsor great park - a united family, don't y'know.
But to get a balanced picture, the stuff they would rather not be seen doing needs airing as well.

No, I don't agree because your argument leads inevitably to the conclusion that there should not be checks and balances, whether they be royals or not. So, for instance, if I had filmed my seven year old son encouraging him to doing something inappropriate, I do not think that anybody has the right to publicise said film revealing his identity in later years and after I had died, without his express permission.
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Anchorman

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2015, 08:02:42 PM »
The royals, though, set themselves apart by the roles they play.
(Roles no-one asked them to play, or appointed them to, but that's another story)
They tried to re-invent themselves (as they have tried many times in the past) as a typical upper middle class family - the images released to the media of sweet little Lilibet and Margaret were designed specifically to give an "awwwww" factor.
Are you suggesting that anything which tarnished that image should be witheld?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2015, 08:14:08 PM »
This piece now 15 years old covers much of the indulgent hagiography

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jul/19/queenmother.comment?CMP=share_btn_tw
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jeremyp

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2015, 08:17:41 PM »
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 04:15:13 PM

The royals were perfectly happy to release material to documentary makers which showed them in a good light


Wouldn't it be the same for any other family?  If somebody thought my life was interesting enough to make a documentary about and there was footage of me as a child giving a Nazi salute (in whatever context, even if I was just larking about) I don't think I would give that footage to the documentary makers, not given what has happened here.

There's good evidence that John Cleese was a bit of a Nazi

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2013/1/23/1358932681059/Fawlty-Towers-008.jpg

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Enki

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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2015, 04:07:00 PM »
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 08:02:42 PM
The royals, though, set themselves apart by the roles they play.
(Roles no-one asked them to play, or appointed them to, but that's another story)
They tried to re-invent themselves (as they have tried many times in the past) as a typical upper middle class family - the images released to the media of sweet little Lilibet and Margaret were designed specifically to give an "awwwww" factor.
Are you suggesting that anything which tarnished that image should be witheld?

Good grief, no. And I have not suggested that. I am all in favour of criticism of the royal family as long as it is fair, as I would be of anyone else. I believe in treating people equally. That is one reason why I do not support the idea of having a royal family. Because I believe in treating people equally I cannot see the merit of treating a small child differently to any other small child in such a situation. The fact that the small child was and is a member of the royal family has no bearing on my disagreement. I would react in the same way whoever that child might be. I would hope that you would, too.
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Re: Royals' Nazi salute - Pt 2
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2015, 04:36:33 PM »
Quote from: jeremyp on July 20, 2015, 08:17:41 PM
Quote from: Anchorman on July 20, 2015, 04:15:13 PM

The royals were perfectly happy to release material to documentary makers which showed them in a good light


Wouldn't it be the same for any other family?  If somebody thought my life was interesting enough to make a documentary about and there was footage of me as a child giving a Nazi salute (in whatever context, even if I was just larking about) I don't think I would give that footage to the documentary makers, not given what has happened here.

There's good evidence that John Cleese was a bit of a Nazi

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2013/1/23/1358932681059/Fawlty-Towers-008.jpg

There's much more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKgHUrKZiXA

 :)
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