You can live with hope or you can live without hope.

[Sassy]

Christians chose the former...


Is it just about hope? No it isn't.
But the truth is God has a much better plan for our lives and most people are just to scared to let go of the reins and let someone else make the plans and decisions for them.

A number of threads on the forum read like a battle of keeping your own independence from God so mocking those who would rather depend on God. What options are there?
What do YOU  really know about God when it comes to making that choice?
A choice we all make sometime in our life whether  it is a conscious choice or not.

[Leonard James]

Most people live with hope for what the future holds, both believers and non-believers.

Believers just hope for more than non-believers.

[torridon]

Christians chose the former...


Is it just about hope? No it isn't.
But the truth is God has a much better plan for our lives and most people are just to scared to let go of the reins and let someone else make the plans and decisions for them.

A number of threads on the forum read like a battle of keeping your own independence from God so mocking those who would rather depend on God. What options are there?
What do YOU  really know about God when it comes to making that choice?
A choice we all make sometime in our life whether  it is a conscious choice or not.

We all need hope. I prefer mine to be realistic rather than fantastic.

[Sriram]

Christians chose the former...


Is it just about hope? No it isn't.
But the truth is God has a much better plan for our lives and most people are just to scared to let go of the reins and let someone else make the plans and decisions for them.

A number of threads on the forum read like a battle of keeping your own independence from God so mocking those who would rather depend on God. What options are there?
What do YOU  really know about God when it comes to making that choice?
A choice we all make sometime in our life whether  it is a conscious choice or not.

We all need hope. I prefer mine to be realistic rather than fantastic.

But what is reality? You don't know any more than anyone else.  You just look around you with your conscious mind and assume that is the only reality.

Many people have an intuitive impression generated probably by their subconscious mind, that there is something more to life than the obvious material reality. This gives them hope and faith.

Not that they are necessarily wrong.

[Rhiannon]

Nobody mocks those who depend on God until they try to mix science with faith and make 'true for me ' true for everyone, even those for whom the Christian 'truth' has brought nothing but pain.

[torridon]

But what is reality? You don't know any more than anyone else.  You just look around you with your conscious mind and assume that is the only reality.

Many people have an intuitive impression generated probably by their subconscious mind, that there is something more to life than the obvious material reality. This gives them hope and faith.

Not that they are necessarily wrong.

A reality revealed by disciplined methods that seek to eliminate human biases is more likely to be real; an over indulgence of subjectivity or intuition risks mistaking fantasies born of the human psyche for obective reality.

[Leonard James]

A reality revealed by disciplined methods that seek to eliminate human biases is more likely to be real; an over indulgence of subjectivity or intuition risks mistaking fantasies born of the human psyche for obective reality.

Indeed, we can all have dreams and hopes for un-evidenced things, but it is important to be able to distinguish between these and reality.

[Sriram]

But what is reality? You don't know any more than anyone else.  You just look around you with your conscious mind and assume that is the only reality.

Many people have an intuitive impression generated probably by their subconscious mind, that there is something more to life than the obvious material reality. This gives them hope and faith.

Not that they are necessarily wrong.

A reality revealed by disciplined methods that seek to eliminate human biases is more likely to be real; an over indulgence of subjectivity or intuition risks mistaking fantasies born of the human psyche for obective reality.

But we have already seen that the subconscious/unconscious mind knows more than the conscious mind does and is also more reliable in future planning and decision making!

[torridon]

A reality revealed by disciplined methods that seek to eliminate human biases is more likely to be real; an over indulgence of subjectivity or intuition risks mistaking fantasies born of the human psyche for obective reality.

But we have already seen that the subconscious/unconscious mind knows more than the conscious mind does and is also more reliable in future planning and decision making!

I wouldn't go that far. There is nothing magic about subconscious/unconscious mind, it can and does get things wrong; it may be less cluttered with day to day trivia, is all.

[Leonard James]

But we have already seen that the subconscious/unconscious mind knows more than the conscious mind does...

Why are you talking as if the two are separate entities? They are both a part of the same brain, and everything in the sub-conscious must first have passed through the conscious.

 

...and is also more reliable in future planning and decision making!

What evidence is there that it is more reliable? Has there been any research into the veracity of gut-feeling responses, or are you just assuming that because you remember the positive ones better than the negative?

[Sriram]

But we have already seen that the subconscious/unconscious mind knows more than the conscious mind does and is also more reliable in future planning and decision making!

I wouldn't go that far. There is nothing magic about subconscious/unconscious mind, it can and does get things wrong; it may be less cluttered with day to day trivia, is all.

Freedom from clutter is not a small thing!   The ability to observe subtle patterns in our lives is another plus that the conscious mind is incapable of. 

We have also seen the power the unconscious mind has in the form of placebo effects....which is a major 'magical' ability IMO. Something the conscious mind is incapable of. 

We cannot dismiss the subconscious/unconscious as easily as that!  IMO it is the source of all human intuitive knowledge.

[Sriram]

But we have already seen that the subconscious/unconscious mind knows more than the conscious mind does...

Why are you talking as if the two are separate entities? They are both a part of the same brain, and everything in the sub-conscious must first have passed through the conscious.

 

...and is also more reliable in future planning and decision making!

What evidence is there that it is more reliable? Has there been any research into the veracity of gut-feeling responses, or are you just assuming that because you remember the positive ones better than the negative?

I have already given you enough links. You want science...you have it.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/?keyword=unconscious+mind#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=unconscious%20mind&gsc.page=1

[floo]

We all hope for different things, I hope to cease to be when I kick the bucket.

[Leonard James]

Freedom from clutter is not a small thing!   The ability to observe subtle patterns in our lives is another plus that the conscious mind is incapable of.

The conscious mind is quite capable of recognising subtle patterns. Where did you get the idea that it isn't?

We have also seen the power the unconscious mind has in the form of placebo effects....which is a major 'magical' ability IMO. Something the conscious mind is incapable of.

You will have to explain this claim further. As far as I am aware the placebo effect takes place in the conscious mind.

We cannot dismiss the subconscious/unconscious as easily as that!  IMO it is the source of all human intuitive knowledge.

And false "knowledge".

[Leonard James]

I have already given you enough links. You want science...you have it.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/?keyword=unconscious+mind#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=unconscious%20mind&gsc.page=1

I'm sorry, Sriram, I have tried the link and find a mass of confusing leads. Can you link more specifically?

[trippymonkey]

Why do certain types of Christians think NON-Christians are somehow stupid, ignorant or 'refuse' to see the Truth???

[Leonard James]

Why do certain types of Christians think NON-Christians are somehow stupid, ignorant or 'refuse' to see the Truth???

Because they have simply been taken in by the whole fable of "God" and Jesus.

[Aruntraveller]

You can all live with Hope if you want - I'll stick with my current partner thanks.

Anyway his house is going to get a little overcrowded if only some of you live with hope. 

[Leonard James]

You can all live with Hope if you want - I'll stick with my current partner thanks.

Anyway his house is going to get a little overcrowded if only some of you live with hope. 

 

I'm sure he would hate that as much as we would!

[Sriram]

I have already given you enough links. You want science...you have it.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/?keyword=unconscious+mind#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=unconscious%20mind&gsc.page=1

I'm sorry, Sriram, I have tried the link and find a mass of confusing leads. Can you link more specifically?

I have given you these links several times. You probably don't want to see it. Anyway, here they are.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120910152011.htm  - Placebo at unconscious level

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081224215542.htm  - unconscious makes the best decisions

[Aruntraveller]

You probably don't want to see it.

Rude.

[torridon]

But we have already seen that the subconscious/unconscious mind knows more than the conscious mind does and is also more reliable in future planning and decision making!

I wouldn't go that far. There is nothing magic about subconscious/unconscious mind, it can and does get things wrong; it may be less cluttered with day to day trivia, is all.

Freedom from clutter is not a small thing!   The ability to observe subtle patterns in our lives is another plus that the conscious mind is incapable of. 

We have also seen the power the unconscious mind has in the form of placebo effects....which is a major 'magical' ability IMO. Something the conscious mind is incapable of. 

We cannot dismiss the subconscious/unconscious as easily as that!  IMO it is the source of all human intuitive knowledge.

'Intuitive' does not equal 'always correct'. Our intuitions are often wrong. Science reveals that reality is often counterintuitive.

[Leonard James]

I have already given you enough links. You want science...you have it.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/?keyword=unconscious+mind#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=unconscious%20mind&gsc.page=1

I'm sorry, Sriram, I have tried the link and find a mass of confusing leads. Can you link more specifically?

I have given you these links several times. You probably don't want to see it. Anyway, here they are.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120910152011.htm  - Placebo at unconscious level

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081224215542.htm  - unconscious makes the best decisions

OK, Sriram, sorry to have bothered you.

I have again tried both these links and get the following message :-

"The page you are looking for does not exist, or may have moved or is currently under construction."

It can't be a glitch on my computer because link addresses work alright on other sites.

Anyway, it's not important because we are never going to see eye to eye on this, so I will keep my nose out of this thread.

[Sriram]

Leonard,

I tried the links and they work fine. Are you by any chance trying along with the lines I have written after the links?  Just try these.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120910152011.htm 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081224215542.htm 

I request you to try again or go to the Science Daily site and search for 'unconscious mind'. 

It's not about agreeing with me. It's about what latest research in science has to say about the unconscious mind. All of us should know that. 

[Sriram]

But we have already seen that the subconscious/unconscious mind knows more than the conscious mind does and is also more reliable in future planning and decision making!

I wouldn't go that far. There is nothing magic about subconscious/unconscious mind, it can and does get things wrong; it may be less cluttered with day to day trivia, is all.

Freedom from clutter is not a small thing!   The ability to observe subtle patterns in our lives is another plus that the conscious mind is incapable of. 

We have also seen the power the unconscious mind has in the form of placebo effects....which is a major 'magical' ability IMO. Something the conscious mind is incapable of. 

We cannot dismiss the subconscious/unconscious as easily as that!  IMO it is the source of all human intuitive knowledge.

'Intuitive' does not equal 'always correct'. Our intuitions are often wrong. Science reveals that reality is often counterintuitive.

It does not mean 'wrong' either.

The point is that the unconscious mind observes and senses phenomena that the conscious mind is unable to. It also makes decisions ahead of the conscious mind....and has been observed to make optimal decisions for the future....and also has dramatic effects on our health through the placebo effect. 

Listening to its subtle messages certainly makes sense IMO.