You can live with hope or you can live without hope.

[cyberman]

thanks Shaker - sorry I didn't see this had already been addressed.

thanks also BA for replying.

[BashfulAnthony]

thanks Shaker - sorry I didn't see this had already been addressed.

thanks also BA for replying.

I can't say.  I merely paraphrased a comment I had seen on Yahoo, and put it in speech marks because I did not wish to claim it for myself, though it was something I believed anyway.  I could not name anyone because there was only a silly user-name attached.

( Just putting things in the right order!)

Incidentally, if Shaker is watching, perhaps now he will admit he was wrong, which is what the whole point was.

[Sassy]

A string of posts from Sass who knows what she is talking about.

If ever there was a time to be a grammar nazi...

You really do not get it, do you.

Wrong, it is you who has failed to get "it".

Foo wrote

    A string of posts from Sass who knows what she is talking about.

I'm pretty sure she meant

   A string of posts from Sass - who knows what she is talking about?

I've observed her posts about you quite a lot and it would be totally out of character for her to imply you know what you are talking about ever.

Anyway, thanks for the rant.  I deleted the rest without reading it.

Who knows what you are talking about?

Which is probably why... you never learn anything.
Just imagine being able to give a learned response to the contents of the post you quote. I think I prefer where I am to where you are... I can give an informed response to contents....

[Sassy]

Who knows what you are talking about?

Only Sass does ... and even she is mystified as to what she means at times. 

Is that how you talked yourself out of your faith?
Truth is everyone knows why you gave up your faith. It was your choice after all.
But don't try to make less of the beliefs of others because they choose not to put something or someone before God.

[Sassy]

According to whom?

According to those who write correct English.  Try doing it.

I do - consistently.

The passage you posted to which I was referring was bracketed by quotation marks, indicating that it was lifted from some source without attribution. Where did it come from? Anybody able to understand correct English would have grasped that, I'd have thought ... 

You believe you write correct English. Actually, English has changed tremendously with every past century. The truth is that grammar can be a problem for anyone when it comes to the English language, including it's teachers.

[Sassy]

According to whom?

According to those who write correct English.  Try doing it.

I do - consistently.

The passage you posted to which I was referring was bracketed by quotation marks, indicating that it was lifted from some source without attribution. Where did it come from? Anybody able to understand correct English would have grasped that, I'd have thought ... 

 You were wrong.  Why can't you ever accept that?

Why can't you answer a simple question? You presented a passage in #116 which was bracketed by quotation marks, thus imputing it to some as yet unidentified source instead of its being written in your own words. What was/is that source and why are you so keen to conceal it? My alleged "wrongness" in this matter relies upon some authoritative source which is generally regarded as a definitive agreement upon English usage; you're copying and pasting without even revealing your sources.

A bit shabby and shoddy all round, really. No surprise to me, but still.

All this from someone who uses a grammar and spell checker.. LOL.

[Sassy]

Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one's own attributes. The term originated from the Greek mythology, where the young Narcissus fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water.

I would never attribute narcissism to Shaker, however the term would we a very good description of his accuser!

Your perception, Roses, is brialliant at times! 

Fools seldom differ....

It really won't make you right when you are both so clearly wrong.
Shaker, has been caught out several times now. Wonder if S is the shaker anymore....

[Leonard James]

Is that how you talked yourself out of your faith?

Lie! I didn't "talk myself out of my faith" and you know it. My faith in "God" weakened and died because he remained silent when I asked for help.

Truth is everyone knows why you gave up your faith.

I didn't "give it up", it gave me up.

 

It was your choice after all.

Don't be stupid! It was no more a choice than is your believing in "God".

But don't try to make less of the beliefs of others because they choose not to put something or someone before God.

It's a very weird person who would put "God" before his/her family!

[Sassy]

"You are the idiot, because if you could simply chose to believe, then it would be simple to chose NOT to believe.

The fact that you CANNOT chose to believe there is no god, shows that you lied when you said you could.

This is tediously simple, why can you not get it?"

I said I could, and I can, if I wished.  In fact, in my younger days I did go through a phase when I chose to reject the Faith, and that totally demolishes your silly argument.  Please admit you are wrong, and go your way.  And you still haven't proved I'm a liar, by the way.

I have proved it because you still believe in a god, despite saying you could simply choose not to.

I say you cannot, and indeed to always fail to do what you claim you can do.

Do you understand that I cannot simply choose to believe in a god, and need evidence?

The argument here is unnecessary. Because the choosing to believe in God relies solely on the faith you put into Gods words and the honesty of yourself to receive the things promised. We know people choose not to believe even if eternal life is a true offer. So it is very much a choice. But the continuing in that belief is very much based on faith and the reality of God and his promises and presence in a persons life. You still choose.

[Sassy]

Is that how you talked yourself out of your faith?

Lie! I didn't "talk myself out of my faith" and you know it. My faith in "God" weakened and died because he remained silent when I asked for help.

God has never been silent... his words and replies are directly there IN the OT.
So you are the one lying to yourself. You had a book full of nutrients for your soul.
God clearly telling you what he wants you to do and what he wants to do for you.
But the wants of your own heart was wanted more than the relationship with God.
Because God has already placed everything you need within you. Your love for your own life outweighed your love for God.

Truth is everyone knows why you gave up your faith.

I didn't "give it up", it gave me up.

It didn't...John 6:37.. you turned away on your own. You never really believed what God had told you or Christ taught.

It was your choice after all.

Don't be stupid! It was no more a choice than is your believing in "God".

There you go again... my belief has nothing to do with your choice.
Not even a comparison can be made from what you have just said.
Belief in God is always a choice. But in truth, once you know God is real in your heart you can never walk away from that reality. It is lying to yourself, to do so.

But don't try to make less of the beliefs of others because they choose not to put something or someone before God.

It's a very weird person who would put "God" before their family!

Again the lack of knowledge of God and Christianity is shown in your reply.

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
King James 2000 Bible
He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

If you truly know Christ then you realise he wants what is best for your mother, brother, sister and yourself. It isn't a personality contest and not based in the
worldly aspect of love.

Paulo Coelho
“Agape is total love, the love that devours those that experience it. Whoever knows and experiences Agape sees that nothing else in this world is of any importance, only loving. This was the love that Jesus felt for humanity, and it was so great that it shook the stars and changed the course of man’s history.”¯

You see when you know the love God has for us, made known by Christ, then the greatest love exists not in the worldly version of love but Gods love which includes the good of all of us. It is a foolish thing to turn away from Christ and the Father God for the love of the world.

I know my God puts myself and my family first. He includes my family he does not divide us. If my family love God they too will understand that true love never turns it's back on God and there is nothing to choose for Gods love covers our families too.

[Sassy]

Just a note:Christian replies:-

That beliefs are not condemning in themselves. But peoples conscience condemn themselves when they read sometimes. You should never think it an attack or affront from the person posting. Because it is really the way it is understood and read according to ones own life...

[Leonard James]

Your problem, Sass, is that you think you know what is in other people's minds ... and you don't need me to tell you that that is a VERY foolish thing to think.
 

[floo]

As usual Sass makes daft statements, which might make sense to her, but not to many others!

[jeremyp]

The gospel writers simply wrote down what they had heard or believed,

I think there's a fair chance that they made some of it up.  Matthew and Luke have their nativity stories, Mark has his Messianic Secret, John has his crucifixion as a parallel of the sacrifice of the Paschal Lamb. 

[Leonard James]

The gospel writers simply wrote down what they had heard or believed,

I think there's a fair chance that they made some of it up.  Matthew and Luke have their nativity stories, Mark has his Messianic Secret, John has his crucifixion as a parallel of the sacrifice of the Paschal Lamb.

But surely believing that "God" was guiding them? If not, the authenticity of the gospels goes out of the window.

[jeremyp]

The gospel writers simply wrote down what they had heard or believed,

I think there's a fair chance that they made some of it up.  Matthew and Luke have their nativity stories, Mark has his Messianic Secret, John has his crucifixion as a parallel of the sacrifice of the Paschal Lamb.

But surely believing that "God" was guiding them? If not, the authenticity of the gospels goes out of the window.

What do you mean by the "authenticity of the gospels"?  These are stories that were written, probably, thirty years at least after the alleged events they describe bu persons unknown.  We have no idea if they believed they were guided by God or not.

[Leonard James]

What do you mean by the "authenticity of the gospels"?  These are stories that were written, probably, thirty years at least after the alleged events they describe bu persons unknown.  We have no idea if they believed they were guided by God or not.

I suppose you are right, mate. I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt, since Christians claim the Bible books are "God" inspired.

[Dicky Underpants]

What do you mean by the "authenticity of the gospels"?  These are stories that were written, probably, thirty years at least after the alleged events they describe bu persons unknown.  We have no idea if they believed they were guided by God or not.

I suppose you are right, mate. I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt, since Christians claim the Bible books are "God" inspired.

And it should be pointed out, Len, that the text they cite for that view was one of the last in the Bible to be written (and not by the author whose name is given to it), and is most likely a mistranslation of the greek....

[Alien]

What do you mean by the "authenticity of the gospels"?  These are stories that were written, probably, thirty years at least after the alleged events they describe bu persons unknown.  We have no idea if they believed they were guided by God or not.

I suppose you are right, mate. I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt, since Christians claim the Bible books are "God" inspired.

And it should be pointed out, Len, that the text they cite for that view was one of the last in the Bible to be written (and not by the author whose name is given to it), and is most likely a mistranslation of the greek....

Allegedly.

[ippy]

Is that how you talked yourself out of your faith?

Lie! I didn't "talk myself out of my faith" and you know it. My faith in "God" weakened and died because he remained silent when I asked for help.

God has never been silent... his words and replies are directly there IN the OT.
So you are the one lying to yourself. You had a book full of nutrients for your soul.
God clearly telling you what he wants you to do and what he wants to do for you.
But the wants of your own heart was wanted more than the relationship with God.
Because God has already placed everything you need within you. Your love for your own life outweighed your love for God.

Truth is everyone knows why you gave up your faith.

I didn't "give it up", it gave me up.

It didn't...John 6:37.. you turned away on your own. You never really believed what God had told you or Christ taught.

It was your choice after all.

Don't be stupid! It was no more a choice than is your believing in "God".

There you go again... my belief has nothing to do with your choice.
Not even a comparison can be made from what you have just said.
Belief in God is always a choice. But in truth, once you know God is real in your heart you can never walk away from that reality. It is lying to yourself, to do so.

But don't try to make less of the beliefs of others because they choose not to put something or someone before God.

It's a very weird person who would put "God" before their family!

Again the lack of knowledge of God and Christianity is shown in your reply.

25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
King James 2000 Bible
He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

If you truly know Christ then you realise he wants what is best for your mother, brother, sister and yourself. It isn't a personality contest and not based in the
worldly aspect of love.

Paulo Coelho
“Agape is total love, the love that devours those that experience it. Whoever knows and experiences Agape sees that nothing else in this world is of any importance, only loving. This was the love that Jesus felt for humanity, and it was so great that it shook the stars and changed the course of man’s history.”¯

You see when you know the love God has for us, made known by Christ, then the greatest love exists not in the worldly version of love but Gods love which includes the good of all of us. It is a foolish thing to turn away from Christ and the Father God for the love of the world.

I know my God puts myself and my family first. He includes my family he does not divide us. If my family love God they too will understand that true love never turns it's back on God and there is nothing to choose for Gods love covers our families too.

Sass, your words: "You see when you know the love God has for us"; I'm certain you think know about this, so please tell, exactly how do you know?

Your words again: "I know my God puts myself and my family first"; how can you or anyone else possibly know this?

I know you believe these things but there are some people that are certain that Elvis is still alive, like you they don't know, even then, it's as likely that Elvis is still around as it is that this god thingy of yours is around, in fact it's far more likely your workshop manual is man made than any other explanation, all the evidence points that way.

Do you know the difference between believing something and knowing something?

ippy     

[Sassy]

Your problem, Sass, is that you think you know what is in other people's minds ... and you don't need me to tell you that that is a VERY foolish thing to think.
 

The fact is there can ONLY BE SO MANY THINGS in peoples minds..
Human nature is a fact and you are the person GUILTY of the very thing you accuse me of being when it comes to Christians...

Maybe you just hit your own brick wall.

[floo]

Your problem, Sass, is that you think you know what is in other people's minds ... and you don't need me to tell you that that is a VERY foolish thing to think.
 

The fact is there can ONLY BE SO MANY THINGS in peoples minds..
Human nature is a fact and you are the person GUILTY of the very thing you accuse me of being when it comes to Christians...

Maybe you just hit your own brick wall.

More GARBAGE from Sass!

[ippy]

Sass Ref post 221 on this thread, what is it? You haven't got an answer?

Or if you do manage to turn reason and yourself inside out, trying to answer that post, would it be because you fear that it's going expose some holes in your efforts to promote that beloved by you religion. 

ippy

[Leonard James]

What do you mean by the "authenticity of the gospels"?  These are stories that were written, probably, thirty years at least after the alleged events they describe bu persons unknown.  We have no idea if they believed they were guided by God or not.

I suppose you are right, mate. I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt, since Christians claim the Bible books are "God" inspired.

And it should be pointed out, Len, that the text they cite for that view was one of the last in the Bible to be written (and not by the author whose name is given to it), and is most likely a mistranslation of the greek....

Thanks for the information, Dicky. It's obvious to me that the whole God/Jesus story is a fiction cobbled together by the authors of the various books of the Bible, and has no more connection with reality than any of the other god stories the ancients believed.