Do you believe in Hell? For non-Christians.

[Rhiannon]

It wasn't something that featured in the Christianity I used to follow. But I did encounter some on the evangelical wing who would call who was 'saved' and who wasn't. Not that they elaborated much on what being 'not saved' meant; it was much more about how great being 'saved' would be.

[Owlswing]

I agree, BA, as both a Christian and not I've never believed in hell. Hell, insofar as it exists, belongs in this world.

I don't know about Matt but on my loose neopagan path the underworld is a concept. It isn't a place of torment but it is the counterpoint to 'above'. We have dark deities - they aren't evil but will take us to the depths before we can emerge, re-formed. For me this is a useful concept to use when considering the difficulties I've encountered on my own journey, to make peace with them and see the gifts within.

I know that, despite my path being at least partially Wicca based, it is nowhere near what could be called a 'tight' neo-pagan path.

Nowhere in my belief is there a 'dark place' after death, there is only the Summerlands, a place for R and R and a chance to mull over and learn from my experiences during my life-time just ended in order to prepare for re-birth and the commenment of another journey around the circle of birth, life, death and re-birth.

[Rhiannon]

I agree, BA, as both a Christian and not I've never believed in hell. Hell, insofar as it exists, belongs in this world.

I don't know about Matt but on my loose neopagan path the underworld is a concept. It isn't a place of torment but it is the counterpoint to 'above'. We have dark deities - they aren't evil but will take us to the depths before we can emerge, re-formed. For me this is a useful concept to use when considering the difficulties I've encountered on my own journey, to make peace with them and see the gifts within.

I know that, despite my path being at partially Wicca based, it is nowhere near what could be called a 'tight' neo-pagan path.

Nowhere in my belief is there a 'dark place' after death, there is only the Summerlands, a place for R and R and a chance to mull over and learn from my experiences during my life-time just ended in order to prepare for re-birth and the commenment of another journey around the circle of birth, life, death and re-birth.

I like the concept of a Summerlands afterlife, but it isn't somewhere I 'believe in' - if anything I have a hope of an afterlife, nothing more. But the 'underworld' -the depths- is experienced as a part of this life. It isn't an afterlife thing.

Not that I find the notion of returning to the earth particularly bothersome.

[Owlswing]

I agree, BA, as both a Christian and not I've never believed in hell. Hell, insofar as it exists, belongs in this world.

I don't know about Matt but on my loose neopagan path the underworld is a concept. It isn't a place of torment but it is the counterpoint to 'above'. We have dark deities - they aren't evil but will take us to the depths before we can emerge, re-formed. For me this is a useful concept to use when considering the difficulties I've encountered on my own journey, to make peace with them and see the gifts within.

I know that, despite my path being at partially Wicca based, it is nowhere near what could be called a 'tight' neo-pagan path.

Nowhere in my belief is there a 'dark place' after death, there is only the Summerlands, a place for R and R and a chance to mull over and learn from my experiences during my life-time just ended in order to prepare for re-birth and the commenment of another journey around the circle of birth, life, death and re-birth.

I like the concept of a Summerlands afterlife, but it isn't somewhere I 'believe in' - if anything I have a hope of an afterlife, nothing more. But the 'underworld' -the depths- is experienced as a part of this life. It isn't an afterlife thing.

Not that I find the notion of returning to the earth particularly bothersome.

It is one of the bases of my belief.

[Rhiannon]

Returning to the earth?

[Owlswing]

Returning to the earth?

Re-birth.

[torridon]

I don't believe in hell, and have said so over and over. It is an immature and ludicrous concept.

Rather like the concept of God, then.

[torridon]

Do you believe in Hell? For non-Christians.

Nope. 

In my book it is mostly a scare tactic to bolster the hegemony of the medieval church in Europe.

[Rhiannon]

Returning to the earth?

Re-birth.

Through being remade into something else? Yes, mine too. And if that's as far as my immortality goes, that's fine by me. Our world is one where hell and paradise co-exist moment by moment, and I've experienced enough of the latter not to complain.

[BashfulAnthony]

I don't believe in hell, and have said so over and over. It is an immature and ludicrous concept.

Rather like the con...

Whether you believe in God or not, it is most certainly not an immature concept.  It reflects a basic human need, and that, in turn, is not ludicrous.

[ProfessorDavey]

Floo has a thread with this title on the Christian Topic and, I, for one, am totally uninterested in the Christian Community's views on the subject but I am interested to see what all those who follow a religion that is not Christianity feel about the possibility of Hell's existence and the form in which it exists, or might exist, for them.

Well I guess it depends how you define hell.

If it is the 'traditional' view - i.e. eternal damnation after death, then no I don't believe in hell because I don't believe that any kind of conscious existence continues after death.

But if you mean the rather broader usage, for example a state of appalling mental or physical anguish during life, then I guess yes it does. However I don't thing the term hell is really appropriate in that context beyond the colloquial 'living hell'.

[Nearly Sane]

Just to note would the OP have been better titled For Non Christians and Non Atheists?

[Owlswing]

Just to note would the OP have been better titled For Non Christians and Non Atheists?

I didn't think it necessary as I made the presumption that Hell is a religious concept and therefore of no interest whatsoever to an atheist.

[OH MY WORLD!]

And I am not interested in a witches views on most things, including the Hell that is written about in CHRISTIAN scripture.

[Owlswing]

And I am not interested in a witches views on most things, including the Hell that is written about in CHRISTIAN scripture.

Then why the Hell do you include the fact that I am a witch whenever you refer (usually in a derogatory manner) to me in any post you make about me.

It is also a point that should be stated that I couldn't give a damn what a Canadian Christian's views on anything are.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Dearest matty,
And you are always talking about Christians and their faith in glowing terms. (SNORK!) Do you ever think before you post?

[Owlswing]

Dearest matty,
And you are always talking about Christians and their faith in glowing terms. (SNORK!) Do you ever think before you post?

I cannot abide the way in which Christians preach their religion but fail spectacularly to live up to its tenets and cannot ever be wrong in their beliefs. Their book of rules contains so many contradictions that it covers every eventuality by allowing Chritians to say they they are following the rules by quoting one rule whilst breaking another.

Example - Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Their book is the Word of (their) God but it is so mixed up and incomprehensible that it needs constant interpretation by men. For a Good Book it contains a long list of those who must be killed! It was written two thousand years ago but must still be followed despite the world having changed beyond recognition.

And as for the vindictive and sadistic old tyrant that is their God of Love . . .

You, of course, know two-thirds of three-fifths of fuck all about my religious beliefs beyond the bollocks perpetrated and perpetuted  by the Inquisition in the Burning Times but that means of course that you don't have to think before you post, you just blurt out the same old rubbish from the Book, backed by some totally unconnected YouTube clip.

My guess is the you wouldn't know a witch if you bumped into her/him in the street.

Keep on with your ignorant swipes at my religion - the difference between us is that I have, in the past, been part of your religion and know about it, but you, on  the other hand, can criticise mine from the top of your mountain of pig-ignorance and, to me and many other Pagans, demonstate just how little you know and give us a good laugh. 

[BashfulAnthony]

Dearest matty,
And you are always talking about Christians and their faith in glowing terms. (SNORK!) Do you ever think before you post?

I cannot abide the way in which Christians preach their religion but fail spectacularly to live up to its tenets and cannot ever be wrong in their beliefs. Their book of rules contains so many contradictions that it covers every eventuality by allowing Chritians to say they they are following the rules by quoting one rule whilst breaking another.

Example - Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Their book is the Word of (their) God but it is so mixed up and incomprehensible that it needs constant interpretation by men. For a Good Book it contains a long list of those who must be killed! It was written two thousand years ago but must still be followed despite the world having changed beyond recognition.

And as for the vindictive and sadistic old tyrant that is their God of Love . . .

You, of course, know two-thirds of three-fifths of fuck all about my religious beliefs beyond the bollocks perpetrated and perpetuted  by the Inquisition in the Burning Times but that means of course that you don't have to think before you post, you just blurt out the same old rubbish from the Book, backed by some totally unconnected YouTube clip.

My guess is the you wouldn't know a witch if you bumped into her/him in the street.

Keep on with your ignorant swipes at my religion - the difference between us is that I have, in the past, been part of your religion and know about it, but you, on  the other hand, can criticise mine from the top of your mountain of pig-ignorance and, to me and many other Pagans, demonstate just how little you know and give us a good laugh.

Just a little correction here: as you may have noticed, I am no adherent of the OT, so the " the vindictive and sadistic old tyrant that is their God of Love . . ." I do not recognise.  The "God of love" is a NT concept, basically;  and as I have gone to length to explain, that is what Jesus' teaching is based on, and is what thinking Christians accept.

[Owlswing]

Dearest matty,
And you are always talking about Christians and their faith in glowing terms. (SNORK!) Do you ever think before you post?

I cannot abide the way in which Christians preach their religion but fail spectacularly to live up to its tenets and cannot ever be wrong in their beliefs. Their book of rules contains so many contradictions that it covers every eventuality by allowing Chritians to say they they are following the rules by quoting one rule whilst breaking another.

Example - Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Their book is the Word of (their) God but it is so mixed up and incomprehensible that it needs constant interpretation by men. For a Good Book it contains a long list of those who must be killed! It was written two thousand years ago but must still be followed despite the world having changed beyond recognition.

And as for the vindictive and sadistic old tyrant that is their God of Love . . .

You, of course, know two-thirds of three-fifths of fuck all about my religious beliefs beyond the bollocks perpetrated and perpetuted  by the Inquisition in the Burning Times but that means of course that you don't have to think before you post, you just blurt out the same old rubbish from the Book, backed by some totally unconnected YouTube clip.

My guess is the you wouldn't know a witch if you bumped into her/him in the street.

Keep on with your ignorant swipes at my religion - the difference between us is that I have, in the past, been part of your religion and know about it, but you, on  the other hand, can criticise mine from the top of your mountain of pig-ignorance and, to me and many other Pagans, demonstate just how little you know and give us a good laugh.

Just a little correction here: as you may have noticed, I am no adherent of the OT, so the " the vindictive and sadistic old tyrant that is their God of Love . . ." I do not recognise.  The "God of love" is a NT concept, basically;  and as I have gone to length to explain, that is what Jesus' teaching is based on, and is what thinking Christians accept.

OT or NT they are both in YOUR Book of Rules and relate to the same God.

If they are different Gods why keep the two parts together and use them in church and in the street all the time?

[BashfulAnthony]

Dearest matty,
And you are always talking about Christians and their faith in glowing terms. (SNORK!) Do you ever think before you post?

I cannot abide the way in which Christians preach their religion but fail spectacularly to live up to its tenets and cannot ever be wrong in their beliefs. Their book of rules contains so many contradictions that it covers every eventuality by allowing Chritians to say they they are following the rules by quoting one rule whilst breaking another.

Example - Exodus 22:18 and the Sixth Commandment.

Their book is the Word of (their) God but it is so mixed up and incomprehensible that it needs constant interpretation by men. For a Good Book it contains a long list of those who must be killed! It was written two thousand years ago but must still be followed despite the world having changed beyond recognition.

And as for the vindictive and sadistic old tyrant that is their God of Love . . .

You, of course, know two-thirds of three-fifths of fuck all about my religious beliefs beyond the bollocks perpetrated and perpetuted  by the Inquisition in the Burning Times but that means of course that you don't have to think before you post, you just blurt out the same old rubbish from the Book, backed by some totally unconnected YouTube clip.

My guess is the you wouldn't know a witch if you bumped into her/him in the street.

Keep on with your ignorant swipes at my religion - the difference between us is that I have, in the past, been part of your religion and know about it, but you, on  the other hand, can criticise mine from the top of your mountain of pig-ignorance and, to me and many other Pagans, demonstate just how little you know and give us a good laugh.

Just a little correction here: as you may have noticed, I am no adherent of the OT, so the " the vindictive and sadistic old tyrant that is their God of Love . . ." I do not recognise.  The "God of love" is a NT concept, basically;  and as I have gone to length to explain, that is what Jesus' teaching is based on, and is what thinking Christians accept.

OT or NT they are both in YOUR Book of Rules and relate to the same God.

If they are different Gods why keep the two parts together and use them in church and in the street all the time?

Absolutely not!!  I am a Marcionite,  and do not keep the two together, very far from it!  I have put my position down here, literally, for months now.  Please check up on Marcion of Sinope, and you will see what I, largely, believe.

[Rhiannon]

So you are di-theistic, BA? You accept Marcion's concept of a demiurge?

[OH MY WORLD!]

A bit on Marcion

http://www.theologymatters.com/SEPOCT98.PDF

[ekim]

I don't find my sub-conscious any more troubling than my conscious thinking. Should I?

That would be for you to determine, but some might prefer not to be trapped in a psychotic state, an addictive state, a phobia, a state of loss, a state of unrequited desire etc.  These could perhaps be seen as forms of attachment.

Some unfortunate people suffer an inbalance which has to be remedied by medication.

No way do people who suffer psychotic states ask to be inflicted with it.

Some forms of problems with the subconscious stem from abuse,which the victims are not to blame for.

What you say may be so.  I was suggesting that the Hell of the past might be what we of the present may view as being trapped in a 'subconscious' state.  Past explanations regarding blame might come in the form of 'the sins of the fathers being passed to the following generations', or for those who believe in reincarnation, the inheritance of predispositions from former lives.

[BashfulAnthony]

So you are di-theistic, BA? You accept Marcion's concept of a demiurge?

As I said, I largely go with Marcion: as to the concept of demiurge, I am open to discussion.

[Sassy]

Sorry NO belief at all in any kind of Hell.
Many feel being HERE on earth is more than enough, thanks !?!!?

Aye, trippy. My definition of "Hell" in the sense used by Christians is nothing more than a rather nasty guilty conscience, but I would like to find out what other non-Christians think.

hell... Tell me how the above applies to Judas and why he killed himself.