Author Topic: Why Was A New Covenent Required?  (Read 36026 times)

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2015, 06:41:40 PM »
I'd be very interested for you to produce an atheist who thinks that God was/is wrong, as opposed to non-existent (which is generally the definition of an atheist).

Still blathering about God.  Do give up, and save me the time and effort of having to refute the codswallop you all produce.
Not blathering about God; highlighting an illogical statement of yours regarding atheists thinking that God was/is wrong, when atheists by definition don't believe in a God to be wrong (or right, or anything) in the first place.




So, once again ( If I only had a pound for the times I've said that!),  why are you here, discussing something you don't believe exists!!

Gods don't exist, but beliefs do.

That is why we are here.

Oh?  And what do you believe that brings you so often to the Christian Topic?
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2015, 06:47:24 PM »
Get it now?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2015, 06:51:45 PM »
Get it now?

I have no idea what you are saying  -  as is so often the case with yourself.    :)
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2015, 06:56:21 PM »
The answer to your perennial question of why atheists are here (other than the fact that this is a forum to discuss religion and ethics, and anyone, theist or atheist, is perfectly entitled to be) is that while gods don't exist, belief in gods does exist, and that's weird and an interesting thing to discuss.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2015, 06:58:41 PM »
The answer to your perennial question of why atheists are here (other than the fact that this is a forum to discuss religion and ethics, and anyone, theist or atheist, is perfectly entitled to be) is that while gods don't exist, belief in gods does exist, and that's weird and an interesting thing to discuss.

Usual lame and unconvincing answer.  I reckon you must have exhausted any line of discussion or interest long ago:  it has long since descended into blind obsession.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2015, 07:00:00 PM »
Not at all; people still keep on coming out with some right old nutty shit, to use the technical term.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2015, 07:00:45 PM »
Not at all; people still keep on coming out with some right old nutty shut, to use the technical term.

Such as?
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2015, 07:02:21 PM »
Alan Burns's ongoing headlong flight from reality is one example that springs immediately to mind.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32495
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2015, 07:04:12 PM »
Sorry jeremy, 'she' is gender-specific in English, and as such, it is no better than 'it'.
Welcome to the 21st century. "She" is now accepted as a gender neutral pronoun.  In fact I see it used in that scenario quite commonly. 

Quote
Mind you, as the Jews knew, God was both male and female in being, hence of the 144 Jewish names for God 72 are female and 72 are male.

So there is no problem with using the term "she".
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2015, 07:07:47 PM »
Sorry jeremy, 'she' is gender-specific in English, and as such, it is no better than 'it'.
Welcome to the 21st century. "She" is now accepted as a gender neutral pronoun.  In fact I see it used in that scenario quite commonly. 

Quote
Mind you, as the Jews knew, God was both male and female in being, hence of the 144 Jewish names for God 72 are female and 72 are male.

So there is no problem with using the term "she".

Since Jesus always referred to "our Father,"  I for one will stick to that.  Not that it is of any great matter.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2015, 07:38:32 PM by BashfulAnthony »
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

torridon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2015, 07:28:34 PM »

So, once again ( If I only had a pound for the times I've said that!),  why are you here, discussing something you don't believe exists!!

Gods don't exist, but beliefs do.

That is why we are here.

Oh?  And what do you believe that brings you so often to the Christian Topic?

That's how we resolve disputes, that's how we move forward, by arguing it out. No area of human discourse is immune to this, even scientists debate, often fiercely. Maybe my belief, such as it is, if I have one, is in the value of reason.

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2015, 07:33:25 PM »

So, once again ( If I only had a pound for the times I've said that!),  why are you here, discussing something you don't believe exists!!

Gods don't exist, but beliefs do.

That is why we are here.

Oh?  And what do you believe that brings you so often to the Christian Topic?

That's how we resolve disputes, that's how we move forward, by arguing it out. No area of human discourse is immune to this, even scientists debate, often fiercely. Maybe my belief, such as it is, if I have one, is in the value of reason.

I think you are confusing debate with refutation, which is almost all that goes on here.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2015, 08:27:25 PM »
Why?

How did God fail to get it right the first time? I mean It is suppose to be the all knowing, super-duper all powerful God.

And going on from this incompetence what makes you think It got it right the last time, 2000 years ago, as they claim?

God doesn't get it wrong:  people do.  Jesus came to put it right.
1) God made people so why did they go wrong?

2) Didn't It see that coming? If It did then why didn't God put it right right at the start like any other sensible intelligent being?

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2015, 08:31:02 PM »
Why?

How did God fail to get it right the first time? I mean It is suppose to be the all knowing, super-duper all powerful God.

And going on from this incompetence what makes you think It got it right the last time, 2000 years ago, as they claim?

God doesn't get it wrong:  people do.  Jesus came to put it right.
1) God made people so why did they go wrong?

2) Didn't It see that coming? If It did then why didn't God put it right right at the start like any other sensible intelligent being?

People were made with a free will, to do as they wish.  Some choose to do wrong.  That is all there is to it.  What would the point have been to make a species of perfect beings?  They would just be aimless robots.
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2015, 08:31:53 PM »
Why?

How did God fail to get it right the first time? I mean It is suppose to be the all knowing, super-duper all powerful God.

And going on from this incompetence what makes you think It got it right the last time, 2000 years ago, as they claim?
The question isn't even right. When did you stop beating your wife?
There are two questions there. 1) Address them both and 2) which one are you referring too?

Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2015, 08:34:10 PM »
I think you are confusing debate with refutation, which is almost all that goes on here.
Because there's so much put forward to be refuted, presumably.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

BashfulAnthony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7520
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2015, 08:35:35 PM »
I think you are confusing debate with refutation, which is almost all that goes on here.
Because there's so much put forward to be refuted, presumably.


No.  I think you've totally over-refuted by now.     :)
BA.

Jesus said to him, 的 am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2015, 08:39:35 PM »
Why?

How did God fail to get it right the first time? I mean It is suppose to be the all knowing, super-duper all powerful God.
What evidence do you have that God got it wrong the first time round?  Could it have been that the Jews got it wrong?

Quote
And going on from this incompetence what makes you think It got it right the last time, 2000 years ago, as they claim?
Firstly, what incompetence?  Secondly, can I ask that you use the commonly accepted English pronoun for a sentient being of no specific gender, not 'it'.  Thanks.
God made people, so you lot claim so the onus is on the manufacturer - this is the incompetence, and therefore getting it wrong with version 1.0 with the Jews.

I use what I like for God. It is exactly that, It.

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #43 on: August 01, 2015, 08:43:02 PM »
Why?

How did God fail to get it right the first time? I mean It is suppose to be the all knowing, super-duper all powerful God.

And going on from this incompetence what makes you think It got it right the last time, 2000 years ago, as they claim?

 You really are desperate Jack,with a thread like this.It is shame you know nothing about which you write,but it is not a surprise.   ::)

  ~TW~
It's logic and common-sense. JC had to come, as claimed, to put right the mess his 'father' had made.

Jack Knave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8690
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2015, 08:46:42 PM »
Why?

How did God fail to get it right the first time? I mean It is suppose to be the all knowing, super-duper all powerful God.

And going on from this incompetence what makes you think It got it right the last time, 2000 years ago, as they claim?

I would argue that it always was just meant to be a precursor to a newer and better covenant.
Go on then, I'm listening.

ippy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2015, 08:52:17 PM »
It didn't get it right, it didn't get it wrong, it's highly unlikely it is; is it?

ippy 

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2015, 09:38:46 PM »
Go on then, I'm listening.
If you study the Old Covenant, you will find that it was made between God and the people of Israel for a particular purpose.  They were to serve as witnesses to God's love for the people of the 'world' (and that may have meant those people groups amongst whom the People of Israel lived at the time, or might have meant the wider people groups of the world, through indirect transmission - such as trade).  As we also know, the leaders of the people twisted this, deciding to tell the people that they had been chosen as a special nation, and to restrict the knowledge of this God to themselves. 

The Old Testament record suggests that God suspected that this would happen, but chose to allow the people of Israel to make their own choices. 

The result was that God's 'Plan B', as it were, had to be enacted which led to the good news of God's love for humanity being made available to all humanity through the 'New' Covenant. 

Again, the people of the New Covenant haven't always served the purpose particularly well, but have also had their covenant hijacked by the likes of Constantine and his family; other authorities and even some power-greedy churchmen - such as the Borgias.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7928
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2015, 09:39:07 PM »
Why?

How did God fail to get it right the first time? I mean It is suppose to be the all knowing, super-duper all powerful God.

And going on from this incompetence what makes you think It got it right the last time, 2000 years ago, as they claim?

I would argue that it always was just meant to be a precursor to a newer and better covenant.
Go on then, I'm listening.

That it was always part of God's plan, so the speak, that the old covenant was only for a certain people for a certain time, that is until the Christ should come and inaugurate a new covenant. In otherwords, God intended the old covenant to only be a preparation for the new.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

ad_orientem

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7928
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2015, 09:41:17 PM »
Hope.

The new covenant was never hijacked by Constantine. That's just rubbish.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Why Was A New Covenent Required?
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2015, 09:41:48 PM »
It didn't get it right, it didn't get it wrong, it's highly unlikely it is; is it?

ippy
Don't know, ippy; the post doesn't seem to be in English.  OK, it is made up of English words, but English words (even those used in Essex) have to be combined in such a way as to make sense.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools