Author Topic: Satan statue  (Read 33696 times)

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #200 on: September 04, 2015, 06:06:24 PM »
... which not only fails to prevent them from but perhaps actively encourages them to seek to uphold the Constitution.
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
or, Sooty, are you specially pleading that only brilliant theists like me can only be Dawkins obsessed?
Apparently their purpose under their bylaw is to 'to promote the constitutional principle of separation of state and church'.

Sounds like they are focussed on upholding the constitutional first amendment to me. They may be obsessives, but it would appears they are 'upholding the constitution' obsessives.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #201 on: September 04, 2015, 06:20:35 PM »
... which not only fails to prevent them from but perhaps actively encourages them to seek to uphold the Constitution.
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
or, Sooty, are you specially pleading that only brilliant theists like me can only be Dawkins obsessed?
Apparently their purpose under their bylaw is to 'to promote the constitutional principle of separation of state and church'.

Sounds like they are focussed on upholding the constitutional first amendment to me. They may be obsessives, but it would appears they are 'upholding the constitution' obsessives.
And what pray has a statue which has been standing for 50 years and is popular with normal atheists, agnostics, christians and any body else to do with upholding the constitution?

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #202 on: September 04, 2015, 06:21:24 PM »
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
Blimey - you describing others as mean spirited and obsessed. That really is pot and kettle given that you are just about the most mean spirited and obsessed person (in your case these mythical anti-theist types) around.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #203 on: September 04, 2015, 06:27:13 PM »
... which not only fails to prevent them from but perhaps actively encourages them to seek to uphold the Constitution.
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
or, Sooty, are you specially pleading that only brilliant theists like me can only be Dawkins obsessed?
Apparently their purpose under their bylaw is to 'to promote the constitutional principle of separation of state and church'.

Sounds like they are focussed on upholding the constitutional first amendment to me. They may be obsessives, but it would appears they are 'upholding the constitution' obsessives.
And what pray has a statue which has been standing for 50 years and is popular with normal atheists, agnostics, christians and any body else to do with upholding the constitution?
Read the first amendment.

Under the constitution overtly religious symbols cannot be allowed on federally owned land as that would amount to the state being seen to promote religion or a religion. Now I'm not making a point about whether that is right or wrong, merely that that is the constitutional principle.

In this case the challenge failed on the basis not that religious symbols may be allowed on federal land (no that isn't allowed) but because the court ruled that the statue's purpose was primarily secular and was not associated with worship or promotion of religion. Indeed the judgement makes the point by saying that it isn't used in any religious or meditative manner and is not treated in a 'reverent' manner, evidenced by the fact that ski-ers often take selfies with the statue having put their ski hats gloves etc on it.

Had it been used in an overtly religious manner (e.g. religious services held their, a place for regular prayer or meditation) then it is pretty clear that the challenge would have succeeded.

ippy

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #204 on: September 04, 2015, 06:36:51 PM »
... which not only fails to prevent them from but perhaps actively encourages them to seek to uphold the Constitution.
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
or, Sooty, are you specially pleading that only brilliant theists like me can only be Dawkins obsessed?

Vlad you shouldn't be taking the Dawkings name in vein!

ippy
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 10:13:48 AM by ippy »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #205 on: September 04, 2015, 06:47:41 PM »
... which not only fails to prevent them from but perhaps actively encourages them to seek to uphold the Constitution.
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
or, Sooty, are you specially pleading that only brilliant theists like me can only be Dawkins obsessed?
Apparently their purpose under their bylaw is to 'to promote the constitutional principle of separation of state and church'.

Sounds like they are focussed on upholding the constitutional first amendment to me. They may be obsessives, but it would appears they are 'upholding the constitution' obsessives.
And what pray has a statue which has been standing for 50 years and is popular with normal atheists, agnostics, christians and any body else to do with upholding the constitution?
Read the first amendment.

Under the constitution overtly religious symbols cannot be allowed on federally owned land as that would amount to the state being seen to promote religion or a religion. Now I'm not making a point about whether that is right or wrong, merely that that is the constitutional principle.

In this case the challenge failed on the basis not that religious symbols may be allowed on federal land (no that isn't allowed) but because the court ruled that the statue's purpose was primarily secular and was not associated with worship or promotion of religion. Indeed the judgement makes the point by saying that it isn't used in any religious or meditative manner and is not treated in a 'reverent' manner, evidenced by the fact that ski-ers often take selfies with the statue having put their ski hats gloves etc on it.

Had it been used in an overtly religious manner (e.g. religious services held their, a place for regular prayer or meditation) then it is pretty clear that the challenge would have succeeded.
Yes I understand the challenge failed and normality was restored.
Presumably there will now be some group of atheists and agnostics patrol with drones ready to snap some hapless Buddhist having a quick meditation. I'm sure tape measures are at the ready.....................

I hope they show the same diligence in trying to prevent ''Jesus paints his nails'' being displayed on federal territory.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #206 on: September 04, 2015, 07:17:28 PM »

Shaker

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #207 on: September 04, 2015, 07:22:52 PM »
Hardly anything we didn't already know, is it?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #208 on: September 04, 2015, 07:39:50 PM »
Hardly anything we didn't already know, is it?
I didn't know it was a memorial to WW2 veterans.

Shaker

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #209 on: September 04, 2015, 07:44:48 PM »
Doesn't surprise me in the least.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #210 on: September 04, 2015, 08:08:02 PM »
... which not only fails to prevent them from but perhaps actively encourages them to seek to uphold the Constitution.
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
or, Sooty, are you specially pleading that only brilliant theists like me can only be Dawkins obsessed?
Apparently their purpose under their bylaw is to 'to promote the constitutional principle of separation of state and church'.

Sounds like they are focussed on upholding the constitutional first amendment to me. They may be obsessives, but it would appears they are 'upholding the constitution' obsessives.
And what pray has a statue which has been standing for 50 years and is popular with normal atheists, agnostics, christians and any body else to do with upholding the constitution?
Read the first amendment.

Under the constitution overtly religious symbols cannot be allowed on federally owned land as that would amount to the state being seen to promote religion or a religion. Now I'm not making a point about whether that is right or wrong, merely that that is the constitutional principle.

In this case the challenge failed on the basis not that religious symbols may be allowed on federal land (no that isn't allowed) but because the court ruled that the statue's purpose was primarily secular and was not associated with worship or promotion of religion. Indeed the judgement makes the point by saying that it isn't used in any religious or meditative manner and is not treated in a 'reverent' manner, evidenced by the fact that ski-ers often take selfies with the statue having put their ski hats gloves etc on it.

Had it been used in an overtly religious manner (e.g. religious services held their, a place for regular prayer or meditation) then it is pretty clear that the challenge would have succeeded.
Yes I understand the challenge failed and normality was restored.
Presumably there will now be some group of atheists and agnostics patrol with drones ready to snap some hapless Buddhist having a quick meditation. I'm sure tape measures are at the ready.....................

I hope they show the same diligence in trying to prevent ''Jesus paints his nails'' being displayed on federal territory.
Sure this challenge failed, but this isn't a one off situation. There have been a number of other similar cases, a number of which have been successful.

Perhaps the most relevant being a cross erected on the central reservation of a highway in Maryland, which was declared unconstitutional.

The whole point about these cases is adherence to (other otherwise) the American constitution, which millions of US citizens hold to be of critical importance, and that includes many many fervent christians, not just non religious people. The constitution has a special place in the hearts of a large proportion of the US population.

Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #211 on: September 05, 2015, 11:36:04 AM »
I like this bit:

Levi's Baphomet was a hermaphrodite, with breasts, "but we took the breasts off," ........ The Temple did not want to get embroiled in a debate about gender

Obviously the Temple are far more frightened of feminists than of Christians!


Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #212 on: September 05, 2015, 11:48:09 AM »
I like this bit:

Levi's Baphomet was a hermaphrodite, with breasts, "but we took the breasts off," ........ The Temple did not want to get embroiled in a debate about gender

Obviously the Temple are far more frightened of feminists than of Christians!
Hell hath no fury................

Sassy

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #213 on: October 06, 2015, 12:18:51 AM »
The Romans crucified Jesus after pressure from the religious mafia of the day. The dying for humans 'sins' and the resurrection story, were concocted by his followers, imo!
Good job no one takes any notice of your opinion, isn't it.
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Sassy

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #214 on: October 06, 2015, 12:20:24 AM »
Human sacrifice had died out, in the main, at least 2500 years before Christ was Incarnate.

I thought Christ was human and was a sacrifice?

Christ wasn't sacrificed to God.

But still a human who was sacrificed, thanks for confirming.

No not a human who was sacrificed but a human who sacrificed himself.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #215 on: October 06, 2015, 08:27:35 AM »
Human sacrifice had died out, in the main, at least 2500 years before Christ was Incarnate.

I thought Christ was human and was a sacrifice?

Christ wasn't sacrificed to God.

But still a human who was sacrificed, thanks for confirming.

No not a human who was sacrificed but a human who sacrificed himself.

So he was really a suicide?
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trippymonkey

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #216 on: October 06, 2015, 08:39:20 AM »
Yes OR incredibly misguided ?!?!!?

Outrider

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #217 on: October 06, 2015, 09:05:10 AM »
... which not only fails to prevent them from but perhaps actively encourages them to seek to uphold the Constitution.
Or they are just mean spirited god obsessed types.
or, Sooty, are you specially pleading that only brilliant theists like me can only be Dawkins obsessed?

For someone who raves on about antitheists so much it's curious you understand so little about them.

They aren't 'god obsessed' types, they are possibly 'religion obsessed' types as the religion to which they are exposed is misogynistic, homophobic, anti-science and intent on creating a theocratic state around them. Under the circumstances 'religion obsessed' could be interpreted as 'enlightenedly self-interested' or 'sensible'.

O.
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floo

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #218 on: October 06, 2015, 03:59:22 PM »
Human sacrifice had died out, in the main, at least 2500 years before Christ was Incarnate.

I thought Christ was human and was a sacrifice?

Yeh right! ::)
Christ wasn't sacrificed to God.

But still a human who was sacrificed, thanks for confirming.

No not a human who was sacrificed but a human who sacrificed himself.

floo

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #219 on: October 06, 2015, 04:00:17 PM »
Human sacrifice had died out, in the main, at least 2500 years before Christ was Incarnate.

I thought Christ was human and was a sacrifice?

Christ wasn't sacrificed to God.

But still a human who was sacrificed, thanks for confirming.

No not a human who was sacrificed but a human who sacrificed himself.

Yeh right! ::)

jakswan

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #220 on: October 07, 2015, 12:29:12 PM »
Human sacrifice had died out, in the main, at least 2500 years before Christ was Incarnate.

I thought Christ was human and was a sacrifice?

Christ wasn't sacrificed to God.

But still a human who was sacrificed, thanks for confirming.

No not a human who was sacrificed but a human who sacrificed himself.

My statement still stands.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
- Voltaire

Outrider

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #221 on: October 07, 2015, 01:00:27 PM »
Human sacrifice had died out, in the main, at least 2500 years before Christ was Incarnate.

I thought Christ was human and was a sacrifice?

Christ wasn't sacrificed to God.

But still a human who was sacrificed, thanks for confirming.

No not a human who was sacrificed but a human who sacrificed himself.

To himself, to atone for his failures in creating a flawed humanity, so that he'd feel appeased and therefore not have to perpetrate genocide (again)....

Stand up guy.

O.
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jeremyp

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #222 on: October 07, 2015, 08:37:33 PM »

To himself, to atone for his failures in creating a flawed humanity, so that he'd feel appeased and therefore not have to perpetrate genocide (again)....



He must have been gutted when he found out he had tricked himself by raising himself from the dead and therefore not really sacrificed himself to himself.
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Sassy

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #223 on: October 08, 2015, 03:10:43 AM »
Human sacrifice had died out, in the main, at least 2500 years before Christ was Incarnate.

I thought Christ was human and was a sacrifice?

Christ wasn't sacrificed to God.

But still a human who was sacrificed, thanks for confirming.

No not a human who was sacrificed but a human who sacrificed himself.

So he was really a suicide?

Allowing someone to take your life is not suicide because his death was not by his own hand.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Satan statue
« Reply #224 on: October 08, 2015, 12:18:48 PM »

To himself, to atone for his failures in creating a flawed humanity, so that he'd feel appeased and therefore not have to perpetrate genocide (again)....



He must have been gutted when he found out he had tricked himself by raising himself from the dead and therefore not really sacrificed himself to himself.

If he really popped up alive three days later, then he hadn't sacrificed his life at all. People who sacrifice their lives for others without any hope of coming alive again are much more commendable than him!