The Bishop of Dover

[SusanDoris]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

[Outrider]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

To be fair, taking one or two, or half a dozen in, wouldn't fix the issue. The problem isn't even the thousands - tens of thousands, perhaps - who are currently in transit or at Calais, or even the hundreds of thousands who have been displaced from their homes.

The problem is that we have failed to improve the lot of people in the hell-holes of the world, and rather than look on their relative poverty and commiserate we have looked on it and said 'they want our stuff!' and closed the door.

Trying to house and settle them here disrupts us and doesn't give them what they truly need, which is a chance to build their own lives rather than having to settle in the shadow of ours.

We need to stop half-arsed interventions in third-world piss-holes, accept the reality that our culture really is genuinely better than theirs, eradicate the corrupt regimes, invest in their infrastructure and help them to build a better home for themselves so they have no reason to want to come here.

O.

[Harrowby Hall]

Outrider

Karma   Applaud

[Anchorman]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

To be fair, taking one or two, or half a dozen in, wouldn't fix the issue. The problem isn't even the thousands - tens of thousands, perhaps - who are currently in transit or at Calais, or even the hundreds of thousands who have been displaced from their homes.

The problem is that we have failed to improve the lot of people in the hell-holes of the world, and rather than look on their relative poverty and commiserate we have looked on it and said 'they want our stuff!' and closed the door.

Trying to house and settle them here disrupts us and doesn't give them what they truly need, which is a chance to build their own lives rather than having to settle in the shadow of ours.

We need to stop half-arsed interventions in third-world piss-holes, accept the reality that our culture really is genuinely better than theirs, eradicate the corrupt regimes, invest in their infrastructure and help them to build a better home for themselves so they have no reason to want to come here.

O.

-
Wot Outrider said.
I dom't know too much about the Cof E official stance here, but if it's anything like the CofS stance it will involve getting their hands dirty at grass roots level while telling the government to stop messing with situations which will only aggrevate the situation.
I'm not too hopeful on the latter front, though. Westminster has a distressing habit of flinging bombs and bullets at a situation without thinking of the possible repercussions.

[Hope]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

Perhaps these are examples of what you are looking fo Susan?

http://tinyurl.com/ogxnwek

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/new_year_message_from_the_bishop_of_dover_1_3897819

I'm not sure of your stance on overseas aid, but it is the kind of action that Outrider suggests and many people, Christian and non-Christian, have been crying out for, for decades that the OA budget needs to be spent on.  The more that money goes to grass-root organisations that improve the real-time lives of their citizens, the fewer emigrants many of these less developed nations will suffer from.  Remeber that it is usually the richest who are able to pay the extortionate suns to people smugglers, and these are often (though by no means necessarily) the doctors/scientists/teachers/... that such nations so desperately need to build developed nationhoods.

[torridon]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

To be fair, taking one or two, or half a dozen in, wouldn't fix the issue. The problem isn't even the thousands - tens of thousands, perhaps - who are currently in transit or at Calais, or even the hundreds of thousands who have been displaced from their homes.

The problem is that we have failed to improve the lot of people in the hell-holes of the world, and rather than look on their relative poverty and commiserate we have looked on it and said 'they want our stuff!' and closed the door.

Trying to house and settle them here disrupts us and doesn't give them what they truly need, which is a chance to build their own lives rather than having to settle in the shadow of ours.

We need to stop half-arsed interventions in third-world piss-holes, accept the reality that our culture really is genuinely better than theirs, eradicate the corrupt regimes, invest in their infrastructure and help them to build a better home for themselves so they have no reason to want to come here.

O.

Well said.

[SusanDoris]

Many thanks for the replies, and well said, Outrider. It is such a massive, almost insurmountable problem, isn't it.
There is always the question, too, of money collected finding its way into all the wrong pockets.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Outrider,

Excellent post, a new word is creeping into politics, compassion, bye bye new Labour, cheerio old Tory, I am quite optimistic about mankind, the culture of "I'am alright Jack" is slowly being eroded, and I think faster communication has something to do with it.

Gonnagle.

[wigginhall]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

I think  this is an unfair attack.   If people are not going to speak up about the disgusting right-wing attack on migrants, then I despair.   It's true that I haven't taken a migrant into my home - am I therefore disbarred from criticizing the government?

The churches do help migrants and asylum seekers, see for example, the London Churches Refugee Network, and many other similar bodies, which try to help migrants with all kinds of problems.

I suppose as an atheist, you have a knee-jerk reaction - bishop, therefore bad.   That also makes me despair really. 

[Udayana]

...
We need to stop half-arsed interventions in third-world piss-holes, accept the reality that our culture really is genuinely better than theirs, eradicate the corrupt regimes, invest in their infrastructure and help them to build a better home for themselves so they have no reason to want to come here.

O.

Rather obviously, this is not going to happen. Who would be able to do it anyway? The problem is how to manage the situation to:

1) Help those who need help immediately
2) Set up proper camps where asylum seekers or migrants can be processed and sent on to places able to handle them or where they can best contribute

It also needs to be recognised that since it is the West and Russia that have been mainly responsible for setting up and maintaining corrupt regimes and controlling trade to further their own commercial interests - they are hardly going to do anything to rebuild the infra-structure needed.

[Leonard James]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

To be fair, taking one or two, or half a dozen in, wouldn't fix the issue. The problem isn't even the thousands - tens of thousands, perhaps - who are currently in transit or at Calais, or even the hundreds of thousands who have been displaced from their homes.

The problem is that we have failed to improve the lot of people in the hell-holes of the world, and rather than look on their relative poverty and commiserate we have looked on it and said 'they want our stuff!' and closed the door.

Trying to house and settle them here disrupts us and doesn't give them what they truly need, which is a chance to build their own lives rather than having to settle in the shadow of ours.

We need to stop half-arsed interventions in third-world piss-holes, accept the reality that our culture really is genuinely better than theirs, eradicate the corrupt regimes, invest in their infrastructure and help them to build a better home for themselves so they have no reason to want to come here.

O.

Once again, spot on!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Wigs,

Anti theist, Susan is a anti theist, Pratchett loving anti theist.

Gonnagle.

[wigginhall]

Dear Wigs,

Anti theist, Susan is a anti theist, Pratchett loving anti theist.

Gonnagle.

Staggering, Gonners.  Bishop rightly attacks Cameron for his attitude to migrants, but hello, he's a BISHOP, klaxon sounds, red light flashes for atheists, he must be talking shit.   Oh, and he hasn't taken a migrant into his house, so he has no right to talk.   What utter tripe.   

[Rhiannon]

Just heard again the Bishop of Dover being quoted. He said something about we should 'redisccover our humanity'. Well, excuse me for sounding just a bit cynical here, but anyone know what he has done personally to help improve the situation? Has he offered to take one of the economic migrants into his home? Personally, I have no idea what the solution is, but I don't think platitudes are much use.

I think  this is an unfair attack.   If people are not going to speak up about the disgusting right-wing attack on migrants, then I despair.   It's true that I haven't taken a migrant into my home - am I therefore disbarred from criticizing the government?

The churches do help migrants and asylum seekers, see for example, the London Churches Refugee Network, and many other similar bodies, which try to help migrants with all kinds of problems.

I suppose as an atheist, you have a knee-jerk reaction - bishop, therefore bad.   That also makes me despair really.

Agreed. One of the strengths of the church - perhaps one of its few remaining ones - is the continual reminders that it gives us to consider the dispossessed and desperate. If I were in Kent right now I might find it hard to feel compassionate and this is a timely reminder.

[Anchorman]

Many thanks for the replies, and well said, Outrider. It is such a massive, almost insurmountable problem, isn't it.
There is always the question, too, of money collected finding its way into all the wrong pockets.

-
All cash donated to the DEC, Tear Fund, Christian Aid, Cafod, etc, is accounted for - and distributed mainly in the form of goods, rather than money, to the locals whoneed it, rather than the governments of the countries.

[Leonard James]

Many thanks for the replies, and well said, Outrider. It is such a massive, almost insurmountable problem, isn't it.
There is always the question, too, of money collected finding its way into all the wrong pockets.

-
All cash donated to the DEC, Tear Fund, Christian Aid, Cafod, etc, is accounted for - and distributed mainly in the form of goods, rather than money, to the locals whoneed it, rather than the governments of the countries.

Excellent idea!

[Anchorman]

Glad you think it's an excellent idea, Len - but that's the way we've been doing things for decades!
Fair enough, some of the local churches may be used as depots for goods, though not always.
Items such as water purifiers, mosquito netting, tents, as well as basic nutritional supplements, are normally distributed by local workers. Qualified medics distribute medication.
That's better than lobbing money at a situation: money has a nasty habit of disappearing.
The only time money is distributed is usually through "micro-banks" which help set up small business ventures in villages, etc, to stimulate the local economy. Even then, the local leaders and elders of the village (not necessarily elders in a Christian context) are drafted in to ensure no corruption.

[wigginhall]

Yeah, but Jim, a lot of these people doing the organizing are CHRISTIANS, and we know that they are fools and knaves, and can never be trusted, so I think that it is just superstition and magical thinking all round.    What the do bishops know about poverty and immigration anyway, nothing at all, much better to trust dear Mr Cameron and dear Mr Osborne.   

[Anchorman]

That new batch of irony meters you've got, Wiggs?
They're on fire!

[Leonard James]

Glad you think it's an excellent idea, Len - but that's the way we've been doing things for decades!
Fair enough, some of the local churches may be used as depots for goods, though not always.
Items such as water purifiers, mosquito netting, tents, as well as basic nutritional supplements, are normally distributed by local workers. Qualified medics distribute medication.
That's better than lobbing money at a situation: money has a nasty habit of disappearing.
The only time money is distributed is usually through "micro-banks" which help set up small business ventures in villages, etc, to stimulate the local economy. Even then, the local leaders and elders of the village (not necessarily elders in a Christian context) are drafted in to ensure no corruption.

It's a pity that all charitable organisations don't go the same road.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jim,

It's the Wigginhall, he is a Saint, they say ( they, wee guy doon the pub ) the nearer you get to God the more you suffer, somebody should check him out for stigmata

Gonnagle.

[wigginhall]

Dear Jim,

It's the Wigginhall, he is a Saint, they say ( they, wee guy doon the pub ) the nearer you get to God the more you suffer, somebody should check him out for stigmata

Gonnagle.

I had those, Gonners, but I had them removed on the NHS.  I believe this has been stopped under Cameron, things like varicose veins and stigmata no longer covered, acts of God, or something. 

[SusanDoris]

wigginhall and Gonnagle

I think you have both over-reacted somewhat! However, perhaps I could ask you if you think the Bishop (and his fellows)  should spend time praing for the migrants and, if so, do you think it will be of any use in either practical or moral terms?

[ippy]

Many thanks for the replies, and well said, Outrider. It is such a massive, almost insurmountable problem, isn't it.
There is always the question, too, of money collected finding its way into all the wrong pockets.

-
All cash donated to the DEC, Tear Fund, Christian Aid, Cafod, etc, is accounted for - and distributed mainly in the form of goods, rather than money, to the locals whoneed it, rather than the governments of the countries.

Christian aid is recommended by both the B H A and The NSS, as the most bang for the buck charity going.

ippy

[jeremyp]

eradicate the corrupt regimes,

How are we going to do that?