Author Topic: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.  (Read 25286 times)

Aruntraveller

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 02:40:33 PM »
Quote
Sorry I forgot about Northern Ireland!

Any posters here from N.Ireland?

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 02:44:00 PM »


You have to ignore Floo:  she doesn't do facts.

If I only responded to people on here who 'do facts', my History of the World in Incredible Detail (including the 4000 page supplement on Hair Styles of Harry Styles) would be complete

Outrider

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 02:46:20 PM »
I'd just like to protest at the title as "Catholic parents" is misleading and unfair to a large number of decent Catholics.

How do I know this?

My partners family are Catholics. I'm not saying they didn't struggle with the issue at first - but they are now just as accepting as my largely agnostic family are. I feel sure this applies to many, many Catholics worldwide; who despite the teachings of their Church use birth control, accept gay people for who they are and are generally just quite nice ordinary/extra ordinary human beings.

Is it that the parents of the title aren't Catholic or your in-laws aren't? How far from the central tenets do you have to roam before you're not considered Catholic any more - are you Catholic simply because you say you are?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like they've struggled and have come to terms with it, and that's great, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are representative of Catholics as a whole or, more importantly, of the precepts of Catholicism.

O.
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BashfulAnthony

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2015, 02:48:51 PM »


You have to ignore Floo:  she doesn't do facts.

If I only responded to people on here who 'do facts', my History of the World in Incredible Detail (including the 4000 page supplement on Hair Styles of Harry Styles) would be complete

You miss my point.  Nobody deals in facts all the time, not even the Einsteins of the world:  the point being, Floo never does.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2015, 02:50:09 PM »
I'd just like to protest at the title as "Catholic parents" is misleading and unfair to a large number of decent Catholics.

How do I know this?

My partners family are Catholics. I'm not saying they didn't struggle with the issue at first - but they are now just as accepting as my largely agnostic family are. I feel sure this applies to many, many Catholics worldwide; who despite the teachings of their Church use birth control, accept gay people for who they are and are generally just quite nice ordinary/extra ordinary human beings.

Is it that the parents of the title aren't Catholic or your in-laws aren't? How far from the central tenets do you have to roam before you're not considered Catholic any more - are you Catholic simply because you say you are?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like they've struggled and have come to terms with it, and that's great, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are representative of Catholics as a whole or, more importantly, of the precepts of Catholicism.

O.

Isn't that just pandering to a No True Pape argument? The title refers to all Catholic Parents and does not offer a definition in a lazy condemnatory fashion.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2015, 02:52:02 PM »


You have to ignore Floo:  she doesn't do facts.

If I only responded to people on here who 'do facts', my History of the World in Incredible Detail (including the 4000 page supplement on Hair Styles of Harry Styles) would be complete

You miss my point.  Nobody deals in facts all the time, not even the Einsteins of the world:  the point being, Floo never does.

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Outrider

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2015, 02:54:33 PM »
Isn't that just pandering to a No True Pape argument? The title refers to all Catholic Parents and does not offer a definition in a lazy condemnatory fashion.

It runs that risk, I appreciate, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere or Catholicism as a concept becomes meaningless, you just have 'people that believe in unevidenced phenomena' and particular individuals.

If they cite their Catholicism as a motivator for the actions, and it's in keeping with at least some of the tenets of the Catholic church, then I don't think it's unfair to describe them as 'Catholic Parents'.

It's always worth bearing in mind that there are modernising forces at work in and around Catholicism, but there are also recidivist forces at work, too, and to ignore them and pretend that they don't do real harm to real people is to give Catholicism a free pass that other groups and organisations, rightly, aren't afforded.

O.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2015, 02:56:28 PM »
But no one has said it is unfair to describe them as Catholic Parents just that the title implies this is true for all Catholic Parents and that that is both factually wrong and a lazy generalisation

Outrider

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2015, 03:04:19 PM »
No, the title implies that they are Catholics - in the article they explicitly tie their behaviour to their Catholicism.

They might not be representative of the entirety of Catholicsm, agreed, but they are representative of a significant 'brand' of it - why should Catholicism only be associated with the acceptable (to us) actions that are done in its name?

Otherwise, as I say, the word Catholic becomes meaningless: if it can only ever refer to those things that represent all Catholics it becomes a synonym for 'Christian'... but because of the variety within that it becomes 'Abrahamic devotees' which becomes 'religious people' which becomes 'people who believe unevidenced phenomena.

If there actions were out of kilter with the predominant teachings of the authorities that Catholicism recognises then it might have been unfair, but whilst the Papacy has advocated tolerance and acceptance, it still describes homosexuality as 'intrinsically disorderers'. That's a pretty fundamental discrepancy, to say 'we accept you, but you're intrinsically disordered'.

You can accept gay people, and claim that's your Catholicism or you can reject gay people and claim that's your Catholicism - if they were the only people rejecting homosexuality and claiming it was for their religion you'd have a case, but they are far from the only ones.

O.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2015, 03:26:01 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".
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Leonard James

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2015, 03:30:18 PM »
I'd just like to protest at the title as "Catholic parents" is misleading and unfair to a large number of decent Catholics.

How do I know this?

My partners family are Catholics. I'm not saying they didn't struggle with the issue at first - but they are now just as accepting as my largely agnostic family are. I feel sure this applies to many, many Catholics worldwide; who despite the teachings of their Church use birth control, accept gay people for who they are and are generally just quite nice ordinary/extra ordinary human beings.

Outstanding post.

I'm well aware of that, Trent, but you will notice that the title is in the form of a headline. Articles and quantifiers are normally missed out in such cases. It simply meant THESE Catholic parents ... not all of them.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2015, 03:34:53 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

Yes they have.

By their every action they are telling their child that there is something wrong with him. Please do not underestimate the effect on a young persons self esteem in cases  such as these. At the bottom of the article is a post about somebody taking their own life. An all too common occurence due to parents who are unable to handle the fact that their child is gay. Acceptance is key.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Leonard James

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2015, 03:35:59 PM »
But no one has said it is unfair to describe them as Catholic Parents just that the title implies this is true for all Catholic Parents and that that is both factually wrong and a lazy generalisation

I repeat ... it was a headline and clearly did not imply ALL catholic parents. Not even I would be that daft!

ad_orientem

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2015, 03:36:58 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

Yes they have.

By their every action they are telling their child that there is something wrong with him. Please do not underestimate the effect on a young persons self esteem in cases  such as these. At the bottom of the article is a post about somebody taking their own life. An all too common occurence due to parents who are unable to handle the fact that their child is gay. Acceptance is key.

Well, I disagree. The patents quite naturally do not want their son to fall into sinful behaviour.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2015, 03:38:25 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

Yes they have.

By their every action they are telling their child that there is something wrong with him. Please do not underestimate the effect on a young persons self esteem in cases  such as these. At the bottom of the article is a post about somebody taking their own life. An all too common occurence due to parents who are unable to handle the fact that their child is gay. Acceptance is key.

Well, I disagree. The patents quite naturally do not want their son to fall into sinful behaviour.

Sinful behaviour is things like drinking to excess or gambling.

Not acting on  your homosexuality.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Leonard James

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2015, 03:38:37 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

You don't consider making their child's life a misery, and possibly making him suicidal, wicked?  Your standards need question, ao.

Outrider

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2015, 03:39:05 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

Except isolate him from his peers, deny him the treatment his older brothers got, bring him up with the idea that his nature means he'll always be a disappointment and threaten to cut off his financial aid (implied to have been given to his brothers, but not explicitly stated) if he falls in love.

'Wicked' is a vague term, I appreciate - whether it's outright abusive is open to question, but it's certainly unfair, backward and discriminatory from the very people he should be able to turn to in anything.

O.
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Owlswing

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2015, 03:41:12 PM »
There isn't really any such thing as an American version of Christianity

Really?

Yep, really. Or are you suggesting there is a specific Christian Church in the States to which all U.S. Christians belong and which they all agree with?

NS

It is quite notable that, if there is a "moderate wing" to the Christian Church in the US, it has made "keeping a low profile" into a stupendously successful form of invisibilty cloak, to the point that, to all intents and purposes, it does not appear to exist.
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Owlswing

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2015, 03:45:41 PM »


You have to ignore Floo:  she doesn't do facts.

If I only responded to people on here who 'do facts', my History of the World in Incredible Detail (including the 4000 page supplement on Hair Styles of Harry Styles) would be complete

 . . .  the point being, Floo never does.


In your (highly biased) opinion.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2015, 03:47:06 PM »


You have to ignore Floo:  she doesn't do facts.

If I only responded to people on here who 'do facts', my History of the World in Incredible Detail (including the 4000 page supplement on Hair Styles of Harry Styles) would be complete

 . . .  the point being, Floo never does.


In your (highly biased) opinion.

Can you demonstrate otherwise?
BA.

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It is my commandment that you love one another."

Owlswing

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2015, 03:48:22 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

Yes they have.

By their every action they are telling their child that there is something wrong with him. Please do not underestimate the effect on a young persons self esteem in cases  such as these. At the bottom of the article is a post about somebody taking their own life. An all too common occurence due to parents who are unable to handle the fact that their child is gay. Acceptance is key.

Well, I disagree. The patents quite naturally do not want their son to fall into sinful behaviour.

This from a poster whose Avatar is two men kissing!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2015, 03:50:29 PM »


You have to ignore Floo:  she doesn't do facts.

If I only responded to people on here who 'do facts', my History of the World in Incredible Detail (including the 4000 page supplement on Hair Styles of Harry Styles) would be complete

 . . .  the point being, Floo never does.


In your (highly biased) opinion.

Can you demonstrate otherwise?

FFS - the infamous "prove it" - cracked 78 yet again!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Outrider

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2015, 03:51:04 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

Yes they have.

By their every action they are telling their child that there is something wrong with him. Please do not underestimate the effect on a young persons self esteem in cases  such as these. At the bottom of the article is a post about somebody taking their own life. An all too common occurence due to parents who are unable to handle the fact that their child is gay. Acceptance is key.

Well, I disagree. The patents quite naturally do not want their son to fall into sinful behaviour.

Isn't Catholicism founded on the concept that we are all inevitably sinners and that we do not earn redemption - our Earthly behaviour is not an attempt to 'deserve' entry to heaven.

Even if you accept the patent nonsense of 'sin', from her point of view she has abandoned and isolated her child, made him feel alone, unloved and unworthy: if she wants him to be resisting temptation, he's going to need a support mechanism which should be her and won't be.

Even with her own goals and misguided conceptualisation in mind she's working against her own interests.

O.
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floo

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2015, 03:51:18 PM »
http://www.queerty.com/scared-christian-mom-asks-how-to-keep-her-gay-teen-son-pure-internet-tears-her-a-new-one-instead-20150804

How can religion cause parents to be so heartless in the treatment of their children?

I don't quite see what the problem is. They've done nothing "wicked".

Yes they have.

By their every action they are telling their child that there is something wrong with him. Please do not underestimate the effect on a young persons self esteem in cases  such as these. At the bottom of the article is a post about somebody taking their own life. An all too common occurence due to parents who are unable to handle the fact that their child is gay. Acceptance is key.

Well, I disagree. The patents quite naturally do not want their son to fall into sinful behaviour.

If you really believe that to be true, you are as nasty as that poor guy's ghastly parents! >:(

ad_orientem

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Re: Sick wickedness of Catholic parents.
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2015, 03:57:12 PM »
I think you're nasty but there you go.
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