Hiroshima 70:

[Harrowby Hall]

Yes I am for real Matty. You can hold hate for the Japanese people, most of whom were not around during the war. I cannot, nor do I have hate in my heart for the German people. I pity you. Those people quietly left that building as the talk began because they do feel shame for what happened that day. Shame on you.

I fear that something strange has happened to me. I may be in need of urgent therapy.

I agree with Johnny Canoe.

It is not the ordinary, decent Japanese citizen who should "carry" any shame. He is innocent of any crime. The vast majority of Japanese citizens were born long after the conflict was over. It is the Japanese political system and philosophy of denial which is to blame.

CMG is advocating a new distribution policy for Original Sin.

[L.A.]

Dear Homo Sapiens,

War! What is it good for, absolutely nothi ...... Well actually, freeing slaves, getting rid of tyrants.

Japan wants to ban the bomb, can we do that, now that we have the technology, are we grown up enough to say, nuclear bombs were a bad idea let's scrap the lot, or is it to late, Pandora's box has been opened.

It does say something about us humans that we can sit down and actually think about making a weapon that can kill millions in an instant.

If I was God, back to the drawing board, forget I even thought about making stupid humans, stick to creating worms or Elephants, I like Elephants.

Gonnagle.

-
Yep.
Too many countries posess(legally and, with the connivance of other 'civilised' countries, illegally) these abhorrant things.
Whether or not the Americans were right to drop that obscenity on Hiroshima (and, for the record, they knew EXACTLY what destruction and butchery it would wreak), they then dropped a biigger one on  Nagasaki...which was not necessary, killing, in the process, nost of the Christians in Japan (though faith here isn't an issue).
When children born in the late '40-s and 50's died as a result of 'A bomb disease' - children who were born AFTE the war - then the so-called 'civillised' nations should have taken action to end the production of weapons which kill those born years, even decades, after the conflict.
There is no place for nuclear weapons in a civilised society, and it's a matter of shame for me that my so-called government allows these WMDs parked less than 40 miles from my front door.

Japan had fought a pretty brutal war by any standards so I doubt that their welfare was top of the agenda in most people minds, plus, they had pledged to fight on. Without the bomb, the end of the war would have been very slow and messy with massive military and civilian deaths on both sides.

You might like to reflect that without WMD facilities like the one built so inconveniently only 40 miles from your doorstep - the world would probably have suffered another conventional war on a comparable scale to WWII in our lifetimes.

[Owlswing]

Yes I am for real Matty. You can hold hate for the Japanese people, most of whom were not around during the war. I cannot, nor do I have hate in my heart for the German people. I pity you. Those people quietly left that building as the talk began because they do feel shame for what happened that day. Shame on you.

I fear that something strange has happened to me. I may be in need of urgent therapy.

I agree with Johnny Canoe.

It is not the ordinary, decent Japanese citizen who should "carry" any shame. He is innocent of any crime. The vast majority of Japanese citizens were born long after the conflict was over. It is the Japanese political system and philosophy of denial which is to blame.

CMG is advocating a new distribution policy for Original Sin.

NO, I am not!

The Germans, upon finding out what had been done in the concentration camps acknowledged the crimes that had been done there.

The Japanese government and Emperor have steadfastly failed to acknowledge that they did anythging wrong in their treatment of prisioners, civilian or military.

I do not hold the present day Japanese people responsible for the "sins" of their fathers, I do however consider that "turning a blind eye" does not make it unhappen. The Japanese concept of "face" is totally alien to the Western mind, but is as important today as it ver was.

Nothing that we, today, do or say is going to change what happened, nothing can undo what happened, but what did happen must not be forgotten in the hope of non-repetition. Unfortunately the IS has shown that man has learned little or nothing since then.   

[Anchorman]

#26: LA.
I have reflected - long and hard.
Thes obscenities have not prevented the butchery by proxy in the cold war era, nor have they saved a single life from the terrorist bomb or bullet.
There are a few morality threads on this forum...but where is the morality in possessing such abhorrant weapons - weapons that destroy the lives of those born after the war is over?

[BeRational]

#26: LA.
I have reflected - long and hard.
Thes obscenities have not prevented the butchery by proxy in the cold war era, nor have they saved a single life from the terrorist bomb or bullet.
There are a few morality threads on this forum...but where is the morality in possessing such abhorrant weapons - weapons that destroy the lives of those born after the war is over?

But if you do not have them, you will do as you are told by whoever does have them.

Are you happy to do whatever North Korea says you will do?

[Anchorman]

#26: LA.
I have reflected - long and hard.
Thes obscenities have not prevented the butchery by proxy in the cold war era, nor have they saved a single life from the terrorist bomb or bullet.
There are a few morality threads on this forum...but where is the morality in possessing such abhorrant weapons - weapons that destroy the lives of those born after the war is over?

But if you do not have them, you will do as you are told by whoever does have them.

Are you happy to do whatever North Korea says you will do?

-
Er.....
We've been doing pretty much what the only power ever to use thes obscenities tells us to do for the past seventy years......

[BeRational]

#26: LA.
I have reflected - long and hard.
Thes obscenities have not prevented the butchery by proxy in the cold war era, nor have they saved a single life from the terrorist bomb or bullet.
There are a few morality threads on this forum...but where is the morality in possessing such abhorrant weapons - weapons that destroy the lives of those born after the war is over?

But if you do not have them, you will do as you are told by whoever does have them.

Are you happy to do whatever North Korea says you will do?

-
Er.....
We've been doing pretty much what the only power ever to use thes obscenities tells us to do for the past seventy years......

I do not think that is true, and it is not by force.

What do you say to North Korea when they make some crazy demand of you?

Remember the best Navy, Army, Air force in the world is of absolutely no use against these weapons.

You cannot win with a knife in a gun fight!

[OH MY WORLD!]

Anchorman,
You sound bitter that the USA has and would do it again, come to your rescue. You really think you are under the American boot? No, that boot ain't a Yankee boot, it's actually an EU boot. Canada is a mouse living beside a elephant, and we love our elephant, we share the longest unprotected border on the planet. WE get along, neither pushing the other around, sorry you feel so stepped on. Maybe have a pity parade or something.

[BeRational]

Anchorman,
You sound bitter that the USA has and would do it again, come to your rescue. You really think you are under the American boot? No, that boot ain't a Yankee boot, it's actually an EU boot. Canada is a mouse living beside a elephant, and we love our elephant, we share the longest unprotected border on the planet. WE get along, neither pushing the other around, sorry you feel so stepped on. Maybe have a pity parade or something.

I for one do not feel stepped on, and I am thankful that the USA is there and has such power.
That power has saved us in two world wars.

[Owlswing]

Anchorman,
You sound bitter that the USA has and would do it again, come to your rescue. You really think you are under the American boot? No, that boot ain't a Yankee boot, it's actually an EU boot. Canada is a mouse living beside a elephant, and we love our elephant, we share the longest unprotected border on the planet. WE get along, neither pushing the other around, sorry you feel so stepped on. Maybe have a pity parade or something.

Honestly JC!

Why is that almost every post you make, you make a valid point and then mess the whole thing up with a stupid quip at the end?

The above would have been fine except for the "Maybe have a pity parade or something" tacked on the end.

[OH MY WORLD!]

Do ya want to start it all up again Matty? Keep your distance.

[Anchorman]

Anchorman,
You sound bitter that the USA has and would do it again, come to your rescue. You really think you are under the American boot? No, that boot ain't a Yankee boot, it's actually an EU boot. Canada is a mouse living beside a elephant, and we love our elephant, we share the longest unprotected border on the planet. WE get along, neither pushing the other around, sorry you feel so stepped on. Maybe have a pity parade or something.

-
I don't like my country being used as America's poodle -or dumping ground for American made Trident nuclear warheads.
I'm proud to say my Church - the Church of Scotland - has been totally opposed to these abhorrant weapons for more than three decades.
(As have the STUC, COSLA, SNP, SSP, Scottish greens, and a few Labour members who still have principles.)

[L.A.]

Anchorman,
You sound bitter that the USA has and would do it again, come to your rescue. You really think you are under the American boot? No, that boot ain't a Yankee boot, it's actually an EU boot. Canada is a mouse living beside a elephant, and we love our elephant, we share the longest unprotected border on the planet. WE get along, neither pushing the other around, sorry you feel so stepped on. Maybe have a pity parade or something.

-
I don't like my country being used as America's poodle -or dumping ground for American made Trident nuclear warheads.
I'm proud to say my Church - the Church of Scotland - has been totally opposed to these abhorrant weapons for more than three decades.
(As have the STUC, COSLA, SNP, SSP, Scottish greens, and a few Labour members who still have principles.)

Presumably, you'd have been happier if Scotland had been allied to Comrade Stalin - then you would have had some proper Socialism!

[Anchorman]

Stalin was niether socialist nor, in the strictest sense of the word, Communist.
On principle, I protest weapons of mass destruction on my country's soil, especially since my country's parliament voted against them - twice - once when what passes for Labour were in coalition with the Lib Dems, and once when Snp were in minority government.
I'm proud to be a citizen of a nation whose democratically elected government has voted against these obscenities - even though an undemocratic pseudodemocracy refuses to acknowledge the will of a democratically elected government.

[L.A.]

I think that I would argue that Stalin and his like are the inevitable product of Socialism.

Any attempt to implement the principle:
 "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
results in:

A/ A section of the population who claim disproportionate needs.

B/ A section of the population who feel aggrieved because they are doing all the work for little reward.

In order to keep those workers in line and prevent the regime falling apart it becomes necessary to have a strong security system run by a 'trusted' elite and in order to keep these people in line it becomes necessary to have a strong and ruthless leader.

[Anchorman]

I think that I would argue that Stalin and his like are the inevitable product of Socialism.

Any attempt to implement the principle:
 "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
results in:

A/ A section of the population who claim disproportionate needs.

B/ A section of the population who feel aggrieved because they are doing all the work for little reward.

In order to keep those workers in line and prevent the regime falling apart it becomes necessary to have a strong security system run by a 'trusted' elite and in order to keep these people in line it becomes necessary to have a strong and ruthless leader.

I'm not going to debate what is and is not socialism or communism, LA, mainly because
A) I am niether,
and
B) it's off topic!

[L.A.]

I think that I would argue that Stalin and his like are the inevitable product of Socialism.

Any attempt to implement the principle:
 "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
results in:

A/ A section of the population who claim disproportionate needs.

B/ A section of the population who feel aggrieved because they are doing all the work for little reward.

In order to keep those workers in line and prevent the regime falling apart it becomes necessary to have a strong security system run by a 'trusted' elite and in order to keep these people in line it becomes necessary to have a strong and ruthless leader.

I'm not going to debate what is and is not socialism or communism, LA, mainly because
A) I am niether,
and
B) it's off topic!

I think it's on topic in as much as it is part of the reason that we need to keep these weapons.

[Shaker]

What reason?

[Gonnagle]

Dear World,

Our Lapsed, the man who got me thinking, is ego just part of the baggage we all carry around or can we truly rid ourselves of it, but Lapsed is still living in Victorian times.

Gonnagle.

[Owlswing]

What reason?

North Korea, who have already, no, sorry, whose leader has already, stated that he is prepared to start a nuclear war against the U S and South Korea;

Pakistan, who have refused to state that they would never launch a pre-emptive strike against India.

What would happen in the Middle East if Iran reached nuclear weapon capability?

It used to be known as the "nuclear deterrant" and it was the certainty of total global nuclear destruction that kept the USSR and the U S from launching a nuclear war, though it came far too close over Cuba.

I, unfortunately, am not so sure that there is anything that would stop the three countries mentioned above from launching without any thought of the consequences. THEIR perceived enemy would be wiped out and that, unfortunately, would probably justify their action.

The fact that they might just be destroyed by the U S, Russia, the UK or France just might prevent the total destruction of mankind - the Biblical Armageddon!

[L.A.]

Dear World,

Our Lapsed, the man who got me thinking, is ego just part of the baggage we all carry around or can we truly rid ourselves of it, but Lapsed is still living in Victorian times.

Gonnagle.

Hi Gonnagle.

unfortunately we have to live in the world as it exists with all it's cruel imperfections. Sure, it would be great if we could just proclaim peace and harmony for all - but I fear that is not going to happen any time soon.

[Rhiannon]

I suspect that the groups that really want nuclear war won't be 'deterred' by anything - they see it as their passport to eternal bliss in the next life.

[L.A.]

I suspect that the groups that really want nuclear war won't be 'deterred' by anything - they see it as their passport to eternal bliss in the next life.

I think today we face two distinct problems.

There are groups of extremists who are prepared to launch terrorist attacks against us or indeed any country that doesn't comply to their ideology. I fully accept that nuclear weapons are no use against these people.

Then there are nation states that possess or are capable of developing or acquiring, nuclear weapons. As time goes by, there will be a lot more. We have to assume that at least some of these states could potentially be a threat to us.

We could of course take the easy option; get rid of nuclear weapons and rely on good old Uncle Sam to protect us - That is certainly an possibility if you have total faith that the the USA will always have our best interests at heart.

[Owlswing]

I suspect that the groups that really want nuclear war won't be 'deterred' by anything - they see it as their passport to eternal bliss in the next life.

Yes, I know this, but the last time I quoted that on here, in one of the posts that disappeared during the most recent cull, I got well and truly roasted for being a stupidly over the top anti-Muslim.

Muslims, I am lead to believe, or at least those who follow similar agenda's to IS and Al Quaeda, believe that by killing an infidel (any non-muslim) they are guaranteed entry into paradise, so completely destroying the total population of the world, including themselves, in a nuclear holocaust holds no downside for them.

[Owlswing]

I suspect that the groups that really want nuclear war won't be 'deterred' by anything - they see it as their passport to eternal bliss in the next life.

Yes, I know this, but the last time I quoted that on here, in one of the posts that disappeared during the most recent cull, I got well and truly roasted for being a stupidly over the top anti-Muslim.

Muslims, I am lead to believe, or at least those who follow similar agenda's to IS and Al Quaeda, believe that by killing an infidel (any non-muslim) they are guaranteed entry into paradise, so completely destroying the total population of the world, including themselves, in a nuclear holocaust holds no downside for them.

 I don't think some Christians are that bothered either and think it will usher in Jesus.

Armageddon and the Second Coming?

In that case humanity is really in the shit!