Modern Parenting

[jeremyp]

Most schools don't expect its teachers to be qualified in the subjects that they teach. I know three PE teachers, two of which also teach humanities and one who teaches science.

When I was at school back in the good old days before education became a political football, all our PE teachers were qualified for and taught in another subject. 

Children are the most precious things we have, to deliberately choose to entrust their education to amateurs seems mind-blowingly stupid to me.

[Rhiannon]

Most schools don't expect its teachers to be qualified in the subjects that they teach. I know three PE teachers, two of which also teach humanities and one who teaches science.

When I was at school back in the good old days before education became a political football, all our PE teachers were qualified for and taught in another subject. 

Children are the most precious things we have, to deliberately choose to entrust their education to amateurs seems mind-blowingly stupid to me.

We had one who taught history. Otherwise it was PE only.

I like the idea of our children all being entrusted to gifted and enthusiastic teachers, but that isn't the case. I know several women who have gone into teaching because it fits in with their own kids but they don't enjoy it and intend to get out once their kids are older. One tells me they trained alongside grads who didn't even like kids much but for whom it was a secure career once they found a shortage of opportunities in fine art or archaeology or whatever. You know those end of year gifts from kids to teachers? I'm hearing that child-made cards go in the bin - only John Lewis vouchers will do.

[BashfulAnthony]

Most schools don't expect its teachers to be qualified in the subjects that they teach. I know three PE teachers, two of which also teach humanities and one who teaches science.

Academies don't require teaching qualifications at all I believe.

You're also assuming that teaching the full curriculum is necessary and desirable. It isn't; according to a head teacher I know it was based on the subjects Ken Baker thought were necessary based on his old prep school education. It baffles me as I love history, geography and RS but many children don't get anything from these subjects and their time in school could be put to better use. Parents who home-ed can allow their children the freedom to use that time to explore tech, construction, cookery, or concentrate on the stuff they really love - fiction writing, archaeology, whatever. If it wasn't for the fact I deem it necessary for my kids (none of whom have SEN) to get in the mix with people and learn the 'rules' of social interaction and friendships, they wouldn't be in school. My heart breaks when I think how much time they spent desperately unhappy in their state primary and that is the norm now due to the pressure of curriculum and testing, not the exception. Even the teachers I know think life is less pressured in secondary school, not more.

That's all very liberal. But it's not the real world.  School is the best option for the vast majority, and always will be.  I dread to think what might become of children left to the mercies of well-being, but untrained amateurs.

Do you dread what becomes of children in rubbish schools with inadequate supervision, being taught to the test, taught subjects that bear no relation to the life they will lead when they leave? Because if you don't, you should.

There is Ofsted, you know.

[Rhiannon]

Most schools don't expect its teachers to be qualified in the subjects that they teach. I know three PE teachers, two of which also teach humanities and one who teaches science.

Academies don't require teaching qualifications at all I believe.

You're also assuming that teaching the full curriculum is necessary and desirable. It isn't; according to a head teacher I know it was based on the subjects Ken Baker thought were necessary based on his old prep school education. It baffles me as I love history, geography and RS but many children don't get anything from these subjects and their time in school could be put to better use. Parents who home-ed can allow their children the freedom to use that time to explore tech, construction, cookery, or concentrate on the stuff they really love - fiction writing, archaeology, whatever. If it wasn't for the fact I deem it necessary for my kids (none of whom have SEN) to get in the mix with people and learn the 'rules' of social interaction and friendships, they wouldn't be in school. My heart breaks when I think how much time they spent desperately unhappy in their state primary and that is the norm now due to the pressure of curriculum and testing, not the exception. Even the teachers I know think life is less pressured in secondary school, not more.

That's all very liberal. But it's not the real world.  School is the best option for the vast majority, and always will be.  I dread to think what might become of children left to the mercies of well-being, but untrained amateurs.

Do you dread what becomes of children in rubbish schools with inadequate supervision, being taught to the test, taught subjects that bear no relation to the life they will lead when they leave? Because if you don't, you should.

There is Ofsted, you know.

Seriously?

[BashfulAnthony]

Most schools don't expect its teachers to be qualified in the subjects that they teach. I know three PE teachers, two of which also teach humanities and one who teaches science.

Academies don't require teaching qualifications at all I believe.

You're also assuming that teaching the full curriculum is necessary and desirable. It isn't; according to a head teacher I know it was based on the subjects Ken Baker thought were necessary based on his old prep school education. It baffles me as I love history, geography and RS but many children don't get anything from these subjects and their time in school could be put to better use. Parents who home-ed can allow their children the freedom to use that time to explore tech, construction, cookery, or concentrate on the stuff they really love - fiction writing, archaeology, whatever. If it wasn't for the fact I deem it necessary for my kids (none of whom have SEN) to get in the mix with people and learn the 'rules' of social interaction and friendships, they wouldn't be in school. My heart breaks when I think how much time they spent desperately unhappy in their state primary and that is the norm now due to the pressure of curriculum and testing, not the exception. Even the teachers I know think life is less pressured in secondary school, not more.

That's all very liberal. But it's not the real world.  School is the best option for the vast majority, and always will be.  I dread to think what might become of children left to the mercies of well-being, but untrained amateurs.

Do you dread what becomes of children in rubbish schools with inadequate supervision, being taught to the test, taught subjects that bear no relation to the life they will lead when they leave? Because if you don't, you should.

There is Ofsted, you know.

Seriously?

I always used to dread Ofsted, they were so thorough.

[Rhiannon]

Then you should also know that inspections are reliant on the personal prejudices and preferences of the inspectors. And the absurd hoops that schools make their pupils jump through to show that they are 'aware of their targets'. And that an inadequate school can make itself look better by knowing which boxes to tick.

Or you can just google to see the wealth of criticism of Ofsted inspections from teachers, heads, academics, governors, parents, Michael Rosen...

[BashfulAnthony]

Then you should also know that inspections are reliant on the personal prejudices and preferences of the inspectors. And the absurd hoops that schools make their pupils jump through to show that they are 'aware of their targets'. And that an inadequate school can make itself look better by knowing which boxes to tick.

Or you can just google to see the wealth of criticism of Ofsted inspections from teachers, heads, academics, governors, parents, Michael Rosen...

I'm bewildered. Why are you so ant-education?  I have lived with it all my working life, and whilst I would never claim it is perfect, by any means, there is such a lot of really good things going on, and so many gifted and committed teachers  -  qualified teachers!

[Rhiannon]

Then you should also know that inspections are reliant on the personal prejudices and preferences of the inspectors. And the absurd hoops that schools make their pupils jump through to show that they are 'aware of their targets'. And that an inadequate school can make itself look better by knowing which boxes to tick.

Or you can just google to see the wealth of criticism of Ofsted inspections from teachers, heads, academics, governors, parents, Michael Rosen...

I'm bewildered. Why are you so ant-education?  I have lived with it all my working life, and whilst I would never claim it is perfect, by any means, there is such a lot of really good things going on, and so many gifted and committed teachers  -  qualified teachers!

I'm against the things that stifle education - Ofsted being one of them, SATS testing being another.

Of course there are some fabulous teachers out there, and some amazing schools, but there are too many who are indifferent and too many who are poor. A lot of the teachers I know feel that they are so constricted by the curriculum and creating that they aren't given the fredom to be proper teachers any more. Most parents aren't stupid and know when school isn't doing its job. Some are able to move to a better school if a place is available. Some use their purchasing power to buy into a different catchment or into the private sector. Some parents with SEN kids will fight at tribunals for their children to be granted the appropriate education. And some give up on the system altogether and home-ed, buying in help and sharing skills with others where needed.

[ProfessorDavey]

Quite a few over the years BA.

I've got no reason to think they are not representative, have you?

How many do you know?

I wonder just how many you encountered, and just how much you were able to assess what effect home-schooling had on them.  As a life-long teacher, I have encountered a considerable number, and that's the reason I am so sceptical about the whole process.

I've also seen the negative effect school itself can have on children, with unreasonably large classes that the teacher is unable to control and the resultant bullying that can ensue or the lack of time there is for the teacher and an assistant has to focus on a special needs child.

I'm sure there is room for both home schooling and mainstream, as children are individuals and age and circumstances have to be taken into account.

I think it would be unreasonable to force all children to attend regardless of their circumstances, and I am glad there is a flexible approach in place to cater for those who find the school environment, a negative one.

You still haven't addressed the issue of qualification.

As far as I'm concerned it isn't an issue, many parents are perfectly capable of teaching their own children, especially young children.

You can always get a qualification on child development, it isn't that hard.

Anyway a degree in physics is wasted on a child with the permanent mental age of five.

Different children need different things and a parent with an autistic child probably has a far better idea how to manage their issues, than your average teacher.

I think you are really belittling the professional aspect of being a teacher.

I will accept that there will be very, very rare circumstances where home schooling may be a preferred option, but for the vast, vast majority of kids being educated by qualified professionals who know what they are doing within a school environment will be the best choice. And this becomes more apparent later when children need to be able to benefit from a breadth of curriculum delivered by experts in that area. Sure a parent home schooling might have a high level knowledge of english, for example - but also maths ... and science ... and history, ... and a modern foreign language ... and PE and music, drama etc, etc.

It really isn't credible that a parent (or even two parents) will have the breadth of knowledge to be able to provide a bespoke education based on the child's interests and aptitudes, and not the parent's preference and skill set.

And that's before you even consider the notion that trained teachers aren't just knowledgable in their chosen subject(s) but are also trained in educational methods etc.

Also the idea that a child with autism is best served by home learning is just bonkers. Sure most teachers won't have encountered too many autistic kids, but they will be a darned sight more experienced than most parents for whom their autistic child may well be the first autistic child they have ever had any dealings with. Most parents of autistic children are totally in the dark and often rely deeply on educational professionals.

As I've mentioned before my wife and I own a nursery for kids aged up to 5, which she runs. It is usually her and her trained team who are the first to recognise there is an issue with the child - and often the parents are in total denial at first. If parents aren't even prepared to accept that their child has special needs how on earth can they be best placed to provide the specialist educational needs of that child.

[ProfessorDavey]

Then you should also know that inspections are reliant on the personal prejudices and preferences of the inspectors. And the absurd hoops that schools make their pupils jump through to show that they are 'aware of their targets'. And that an inadequate school can make itself look better by knowing which boxes to tick.

Or you can just google to see the wealth of criticism of Ofsted inspections from teachers, heads, academics, governors, parents, Michael Rosen...

I'm bewildered. Why are you so ant-education?  I have lived with it all my working life, and whilst I would never claim it is perfect, by any means, there is such a lot of really good things going on, and so many gifted and committed teachers  -  qualified teachers!

I'm against the things that stifle education - Ofsted being one of them, SATS testing being another.

Of course there are some fabulous teachers out there, and some amazing schools, but there are too many who are indifferent and too many who are poor. A lot of the teachers I know feel that they are so constricted by the curriculum and creating that they aren't given the fredom to be proper teachers any more. Most parents aren't stupid and know when school isn't doing its job. Some are able to move to a better school if a place is available. Some use their purchasing power to buy into a different catchment or into the private sector. Some parents with SEN kids will fight at tribunals for their children to be granted the appropriate education. And some give up on the system altogether and home-ed, buying in help and sharing skills with others where needed.

You may be aware that a SEN statement is often referred to as a 'golden ticket' in admissions terms. Effectively it trumps all other admissions criteria so a parent with a child with a SEN statement has the choice of any school they want, regardless of catchment area etc, etc.

[Rhiannon]

PD, if parents have their children in nursery from before work til after work - usually bedtime or thereabouts - they won't see enough of their children to spot problems - your wife and her team are doing most of the caring for children in those circumstances. And that's not a criticism, it's just how it is. But other perfectly capable parents are able to be more hands on, and it worries me that parents in both circumstances are dismissed so easily as inadequate.

[ProfessorDavey]

PD, if parents have their children in nursery from before work til after work - usually bedtime or thereabouts - they won't see enough of their children to spot problems - your wife and her team are doing most of the caring for children in those circumstances. And that's not a criticism, it's just how it is. But other perfectly capable parents are able to be more hands on, and it worries me that parents in both circumstances are dismissed so easily as inadequate.

Nope, although our nursery does cater for long hours many of our kids only come for a 3 hour per day session, and in most of the cases I was referring to one of the parents was at home, as the main carer for the child yet they failed to notice any issue (or perhaps were in denial about any issues). You would believe how often we have kids with clear learning problems, well clear to trained professionals, which parents hadn't recognised or flatly refuse to accept.

There then is a (often extended) period where the parents are engaged in dialogue with the nursery to get them first to accept there is a problem and then to recognise that putting in place help and support (including trying to get a statement) is in the best interests of the child. Sadly some parents never come around and seem more committed to living a myth that their child is just like all other kids and has no problems than actually acting in the child's best interests. Where there is a problem, early recognition and early intervention is absolutely key. The longer that is left the more difficult things become.

[Rhiannon]

Then you should also know that inspections are reliant on the personal prejudices and preferences of the inspectors. And the absurd hoops that schools make their pupils jump through to show that they are 'aware of their targets'. And that an inadequate school can make itself look better by knowing which boxes to tick.

Or you can just google to see the wealth of criticism of Ofsted inspections from teachers, heads, academics, governors, parents, Michael Rosen...

I'm bewildered. Why are you so ant-education?  I have lived with it all my working life, and whilst I would never claim it is perfect, by any means, there is such a lot of really good things going on, and so many gifted and committed teachers  -  qualified teachers!

I'm against the things that stifle education - Ofsted being one of them, SATS testing being another.

Of course there are some fabulous teachers out there, and some amazing schools, but there are too many who are indifferent and too many who are poor. A lot of the teachers I know feel that they are so constricted by the curriculum and creating that they aren't given the fredom to be proper teachers any more. Most parents aren't stupid and know when school isn't doing its job. Some are able to move to a better school if a place is available. Some use their purchasing power to buy into a different catchment or into the private sector. Some parents with SEN kids will fight at tribunals for their children to be granted the appropriate education. And some give up on the system altogether and home-ed, buying in help and sharing skills with others where needed.

You may be aware that a SEN statement is often referred to as a 'golden ticket' in admissions terms. Effectively it trumps all other admissions criteria so a parent with a child with a SEN statement has the choice of any school they want, regardless of catchment area etc, etc.

Really? I thought that was for children in care or who have a history if the care system.

This is information for parents with autistic children.

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/education-and-transition/transition-from-primary-to-secondary-school/primary-to-secondary-transfer-an-overview.aspx

[Rhiannon]

PD, if parents have their children in nursery from before work til after work - usually bedtime or thereabouts - they won't see enough of their children to spot problems - your wife and her team are doing most of the caring for children in those circumstances. And that's not a criticism, it's just how it is. But other perfectly capable parents are able to be more hands on, and it worries me that parents in both circumstances are dismissed so easily as inadequate.

Nope, although our nursery does cater for long hours many of our kids only come for a 3 hour per day session, and in most of the cases I was referring to one of the parents was at home, as the main carer for the child yet they failed to notice any issue (or perhaps were in denial about any issues). You would believe how often we have kids with clear learning problems, well clear to trained professionals, which parents hadn't recognised or flatly refuse to accept.

There then is a (often extended) period where the parents are engaged in dialogue with the nursery to get them first to accept there is a problem and then to recognise that putting in place help and support (including trying to get a statement) is in the best interests of the child. Sadly some parents never come around and seem more committed to living a myth that their child is just like all other kids and has no problems than actually acting in the child's best interests. Where there is a problem, early recognition and early intervention is absolutely key. The longer that is left the more difficult things become.

Not all parents are on the ball, sadly. It's also not always easy to get what you need even when you think there is a problem though - I remember battling to get hearing tests for my children. My son struggled to read because of persistent ear infections and in the end I had to sign him up to an on- line programme designed for children with temporary hearing loss to do at home to get him up to speed.

[ProfessorDavey]

Then you should also know that inspections are reliant on the personal prejudices and preferences of the inspectors. And the absurd hoops that schools make their pupils jump through to show that they are 'aware of their targets'. And that an inadequate school can make itself look better by knowing which boxes to tick.

Or you can just google to see the wealth of criticism of Ofsted inspections from teachers, heads, academics, governors, parents, Michael Rosen...

I'm bewildered. Why are you so ant-education?  I have lived with it all my working life, and whilst I would never claim it is perfect, by any means, there is such a lot of really good things going on, and so many gifted and committed teachers  -  qualified teachers!

I'm against the things that stifle education - Ofsted being one of them, SATS testing being another.

Of course there are some fabulous teachers out there, and some amazing schools, but there are too many who are indifferent and too many who are poor. A lot of the teachers I know feel that they are so constricted by the curriculum and creating that they aren't given the fredom to be proper teachers any more. Most parents aren't stupid and know when school isn't doing its job. Some are able to move to a better school if a place is available. Some use their purchasing power to buy into a different catchment or into the private sector. Some parents with SEN kids will fight at tribunals for their children to be granted the appropriate education. And some give up on the system altogether and home-ed, buying in help and sharing skills with others where needed.

You may be aware that a SEN statement is often referred to as a 'golden ticket' in admissions terms. Effectively it trumps all other admissions criteria so a parent with a child with a SEN statement has the choice of any school they want, regardless of catchment area etc, etc.

Really? I thought that was for children in care or who have a history if the care system.

This is information for parents with autistic children.

http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/education-and-transition/transition-from-primary-to-secondary-school/primary-to-secondary-transfer-an-overview.aspx

Under the Admissions code all children with a statement of SEN must be admitted to a named school.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389388/School_Admissions_Code_2014_-_19_Dec.pdf

This can be a real issue for some schools who have an excellent reputation for SEN provision - effectively they end up having to admit children from way outside their normal catchment area due to the rules, and therefore end up refusing admission to more local kids.

This is an issue in the school where I am a governor.

The other problem is that having a SEN statement is no guarantee that additional funding will flow to the school.

[ProfessorDavey]

Not all parents are on the ball, sadly.

Indeed, and even if they are on the ball they are, at best, well meaning but inexperienced amateurs in dealing with the educational needs of their children, particularly if they have challenging special needs.

[Rhiannon]

PD, I'm posting on my phone and the page is distorting, but as I understand it the code says that the school named in the statement of SEN has to offer a place. That may indeed be a Holden ticket to a good school - or it could be the cheapest option (mainstream school with no support). Either way it isn't down to parental choice, and it is parents who have to fight for their child.

Some parents are well-meaning muppets, but many know their child well and know when they are being fobbed off with something inadequate. They know, too, when they are under too much pressure due to SATS and other testing. One child I know was given the impression by a teacher that bad SATS results would mean she wouldn't get a good job.

[ProfessorDavey]

PD, I'm posting on my phone and the page is distorting, but as I understand it the code says that the school named in the statement of SEN has to offer a place. That may indeed be a Holden ticket to a good school - or it could be the cheapest option (mainstream school with no support). Either way it isn't down to parental choice, and it is parents who have to fight for their child.

If a parent wants a particular school all they have to do is ensure that the school is named in the statement (and actually that isn't particularly hard if that school has a good reputation for SEN provision) and Bob's your uncle, there in. In fact even without a school being named a SEN ensures that a child will be offered a place at a school of their choice provided it isn't over-subscribed. No need to be within the catchment area etc.

[Rhiannon]

PD, I'm posting on my phone and the page is distorting, but as I understand it the code says that the school named in the statement of SEN has to offer a place. That may indeed be a Holden ticket to a good school - or it could be the cheapest option (mainstream school with no support). Either way it isn't down to parental choice, and it is parents who have to fight for their child.

Some parents are well-meaning muppets, but many know their child well and know when they are being fobbed off with something inadequate. They know, too, when they are under too much pressure due to SATS and other testing. One child I know was given the impression by a teacher that bad SATS results would mean she wouldn't get a good job.

If a parent wants a particular school all they have to do is ensure that the school is named in the statement (and actually that isn't particularly hard if that school has a good reputation for SEN provision) and Bob's your uncle, there in. In fact even without a school being named a SEN ensures that a child will be offered a place at a school of their choice provided it isn't over-subscribed. No need to be within the catchment area etc.

Yeah, well, in what I've seen is anything to go by parents have little say in what goes into a statement, adding they can actually get one (IME by far and away the hardest part).

You actually live in an area where good schools aren't over- subscribed? Here even the moderate ones are at primary level.

[ProfessorDavey]

Some parents are well-meaning muppets, but many know their child well and know when they are being fobbed off with something inadequate.

That may be true in some cases, but that doesn't mean that their ability to home educate is any better. It is a bizarre notion that if you aren't getting the best professional expert support relying on untrained, inexperienced amateurs (however well meaning) will be better.

I presume if you get poor service from the trained professionals in the NHS you decide to self-diagnose and self medicate.

[ProfessorDavey]

PD, I'm posting on my phone and the page is distorting, but as I understand it the code says that the school named in the statement of SEN has to offer a place. That may indeed be a Holden ticket to a good school - or it could be the cheapest option (mainstream school with no support). Either way it isn't down to parental choice, and it is parents who have to fight for their child.

Some parents are well-meaning muppets, but many know their child well and know when they are being fobbed off with something inadequate. They know, too, when they are under too much pressure due to SATS and other testing. One child I know was given the impression by a teacher that bad SATS results would mean she wouldn't get a good job.

If a parent wants a particular school all they have to do is ensure that the school is named in the statement (and actually that isn't particularly hard if that school has a good reputation for SEN provision) and Bob's your uncle, there in. In fact even without a school being named a SEN ensures that a child will be offered a place at a school of their choice provided it isn't over-subscribed. No need to be within the catchment area etc.

Yeah, well, in what I've seen is anything to go by parents have little say in what goes into a statement, adding they can actually get one (IME by far and away the hardest part).

You actually live in an area where good schools aren't over- subscribed? Here even the moderate ones are at primary level.

Sure it may be challenging to get a statement in the first place, but to add a particular school, particularly if that school has a good reputation for SEN, isn't (obviously) that hard - on the basis that the SEN statement is aimed at determining the best approach for that child.

In the school where I am a governor we have about a dozen kids who have been admitted under this rule, some living in the next town, some 5 miles away, when you need to live within half a mile or so to get in normally.

[Rhiannon]

I think a lot of the time it is desperation that drives parents to home ed. After all, if parents could walk into the school of their choice there would be no need for the tribunal system anyway. I don't think we can divorce the fact that children with SEN are often bullied (my daughter doesn't but 'you've got special needs' was a favourite taunt). For a child with autism for example, that can be terrifying as there is no way they can read the situation properly. When we talk about children learning social skills that isn't always a possibility for all children and if parents cannot get access to a specialist school then home ed is a better option than seeing a child suffer.

[Rhiannon]

PD, I'm posting on my phone and the page is distorting, but as I understand it the code says that the school named in the statement of SEN has to offer a place. That may indeed be a Holden ticket to a good school - or it could be the cheapest option (mainstream school with no support). Either way it isn't down to parental choice, and it is parents who have to fight for their child.

Some parents are well-meaning muppets, but many know their child well and know when they are being fobbed off with something inadequate. They know, too, when they are under too much pressure due to SATS and other testing. One child I know was given the impression by a teacher that bad SATS results would mean she wouldn't get a good job.

If a parent wants a particular school all they have to do is ensure that the school is named in the statement (and actually that isn't particularly hard if that school has a good reputation for SEN provision) and Bob's your uncle, there in. In fact even without a school being named a SEN ensures that a child will be offered a place at a school of their choice provided it isn't over-subscribed. No need to be within the catchment area etc.

Yeah, well, in what I've seen is anything to go by parents have little say in what goes into a statement, adding they can actually get one (IME by far and away the hardest part).

You actually live in an area where good schools aren't over- subscribed? Here even the moderate ones are at primary level.

Sure it may be challenging to get a statement in the first place, but to add a particular school, particularly if that school has a good reputation for SEN, isn't (obviously) that hard - on the basis that the SEN statement is aimed at determining the best approach for that child.

In the school where I am a governor we have about a dozen kids who have been admitted under this rule, some living in the next town, some 5 miles away, when you need to live within half a mile or so to get in normally.

That still doesn't sound like a parental decision. It sounds like the LEA doing its job if it is sending kids with SEN to schools with the best facilities for SEN.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think a lot of the time it is desperation. After all, if parents could walk into the school of their choice there would be no need for the tribunal system anyway. I don't think we can divorce the fact that children with SEN are often bullied (my daughter doesn't but 'you've got special needs') was a favourite taunt and no matter what the school did the bullying continued. For a child with autism for example, that can be terrifying as there is no way they can read the situation properly. When we talk about children learning social skills that isn't always a possibility for all children and if parents cannot get access to a specialist school then home ed is a better option than seeing a child suffer.

I wasn't really talking about the challenges of bringing up a child with SEN, including autism - it is clearly very hard. O was merely making the point that the notion that 'doing it yourself' as a well meaning but untrained and inexperienced amateur must be better is non-sense.

And sure some kids are bullied because they are different, but actually kids can also be exceptionally caring and protecting of others too. I can think of several examples of kids with mild to severe SEN (and illness) who have received exceptional levels of care, protection and support from their peers at school. This includes kids with autism, cancer and Down's.

And finally I am not sure that sheltering kids with SEN from interactions with others of their own age for fear of bullying is a good idea. Eventually these kids will need to interact with others in the great, unmanaged and unmanageable real world.

[ProfessorDavey]

PD, I'm posting on my phone and the page is distorting, but as I understand it the code says that the school named in the statement of SEN has to offer a place. That may indeed be a Holden ticket to a good school - or it could be the cheapest option (mainstream school with no support). Either way it isn't down to parental choice, and it is parents who have to fight for their child.

Some parents are well-meaning muppets, but many know their child well and know when they are being fobbed off with something inadequate. They know, too, when they are under too much pressure due to SATS and other testing. One child I know was given the impression by a teacher that bad SATS results would mean she wouldn't get a good job.

If a parent wants a particular school all they have to do is ensure that the school is named in the statement (and actually that isn't particularly hard if that school has a good reputation for SEN provision) and Bob's your uncle, there in. In fact even without a school being named a SEN ensures that a child will be offered a place at a school of their choice provided it isn't over-subscribed. No need to be within the catchment area etc.

Yeah, well, in what I've seen is anything to go by parents have little say in what goes into a statement, adding they can actually get one (IME by far and away the hardest part).

You actually live in an area where good schools aren't over- subscribed? Here even the moderate ones are at primary level.

Sure it may be challenging to get a statement in the first place, but to add a particular school, particularly if that school has a good reputation for SEN, isn't (obviously) that hard - on the basis that the SEN statement is aimed at determining the best approach for that child.

In the school where I am a governor we have about a dozen kids who have been admitted under this rule, some living in the next town, some 5 miles away, when you need to live within half a mile or so to get in normally.

That still doesn't sound like a parental decision. It sounds like the LEA doing its job if it is sending kids with SEN to schools with the best facilities for SEN.

Nothing to do with the LEA (indeed I doubt very much that the LEA would accept that my school is better than others on SEN provision),- totally down to the parents deciding a particular school based on a 'reputation' and ensuring their child's statement names their chosen school.