Mary

[floo]

Matthew 1v19 Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. NIV

Yeah, and ... ?  We're beyond that stage, Floo.  In the post you quoted, and previous ones, I asked why he chose not to.

Note, by the way, the use of the term 'divorce' in the passage you have quoted, something that I pointed out back in posts #56

Well whatever he was still unhappy the girl was up the spout. The idea that god wot did it is not credible in the slightest on any level!

[Hope]

The idea that god wot did it is not credible in the slightest on any level!

Why not?

[Shaker]

Probably because the idea of gods itself isn't credible.

[Alan Burns]

Prayers to Mary? Good grief no! I recall finding the sheet music to Ava Maria when going through the piano bench at my church one Saturday night. The next day before going to church I mentioned it to dad. He kinda frowned and then I told him I had put it in the garbage. "Fine" was his reply. I think dad had a few words with the music director that morning at church because he seemed to avoid me for weeks.

Don't be too quick to dismiss the concept of Mary being able to intercede between us and God to help with our needs.  Mary can definitely see things from a different perspective in Heaven, and help in ways which we do not fully understand, and I have personally found out from my own experiences that the reciting of the rosary can be a very powerful prayer in many different ways.  I am certain that Mary has a vested interest in helping people in this world.

[Shaker]

 

[floo]

The idea that god wot did it is not credible in the slightest on any level!

Why not?

Because it is a crazy idea which makes no sense! Surely an omnipotent deity who believe it had screwed up by creating human nature so humans needed 'saving' could have waved its magic wand and put it right without getting a young girl pregnant, and then having her son die a very painful death. None of that was very successful anyway, because Jesus wasn't recognised as the 'messiah' by the vast majority of Jews, or by many people throughout the centuries. Another screw up on the part of the deity?

[BashfulAnthony]

The idea that god wot did it is not credible in the slightest on any level!

Why not?

Because it is a crazy idea which makes no sense! Surely an omnipotent deity who believe it had screwed up by creating human nature so humans needed 'saving' could have waved its magic wand and put it right without getting a young girl pregnant, and then having her son die a very painful death. None of that was very successful anyway, because Jesus wasn't recognised as the 'messiah' by the vast majority of Jews, or by many people throughout the centuries. Another screw up on the part of the deity?

Obsession, obsession, obsession...      imo   

[Shaker]

Looks like a series of pointed, challenging questions that you haven't even attempted to address.

[BashfulAnthony]

Looks like a series of pointed, challenging questions that you haven't even attempted to address.

I wonder who Shaker's talking to, and what he's talking about?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The idea that god wot did it is not credible in the slightest on any level!

Why not?

Because it is a crazy idea which makes no sense! Surely an omnipotent deity who believe it had screwed up by creating human nature so humans needed 'saving' could have waved its magic wand and put it right without getting a young girl pregnant, and then having her son die a very painful death. None of that was very successful anyway, because Jesus wasn't recognised as the 'messiah' by the vast majority of Jews, or by many people throughout the centuries. Another screw up on the part of the deity?

When framed as an episode of Eastenders like you've done here I suppose nothing would make sense. However for those who don't run off childishly when concepts of personal sin, cosmic alienation, and existential disintegration are at stake thank heavens for those personalities prepared to make the sacrifices and personally difficult decisions involved in God's plan for our salvation....including God.

[Hope]

Because it is a crazy idea which makes no sense!

Seem to remember that this argument has been used against a number of scientific matters, Floo.  So, I'm not sure that it really holds water.

[Shaker]

Looks like a series of pointed, challenging questions that you haven't even attempted to address.

I wonder who Shaker's talking to, and what he's talking about?

To you, and your facile and fatuous non-response to Floo's post.

[BashfulAnthony]

Looks like a series of pointed, challenging questions that you haven't even attempted to address.

I wonder who Shaker's talking to, and what he's talking about?

To you, and your facile and fatuous non-response to Floo's post.

Oh dear, obsession, obsession, obsession.  Try and think of something original to say.  It will, of course, be very difficult for you.

[Shaker]

Here's something original: instead of repeating the same word three times, why not have a go at answering Floo's points if you think you're up to it?

[OH MY WORLD!]

Alan,
Please provide scripture verses that support the notion of praying to dead people and they acting as a go between us and God. Why would God have the spirits of dead people doing for us? That's one of the jobs of His angels. And we know angels are not to be prayed to nor worshipped.

[BashfulAnthony]

Here's something original: instead of repeating the same word three times, why not have a go at answering Floo's points if you think you're up to it?

Floo doesn't make points:  she asserts.  and when I answer, she ignores it.  Anyway, this thread is of no particular importance to me.   I'm not duty-bound to post on every thread about Christianity, as you are.  To you, it's part of your obsession!

[Shaker]

Because it is a crazy idea which makes no sense!

Seem to remember that this argument has been used against a number of scientific matters, Floo.  So, I'm not sure that it really holds water.

Are they the ones that have evidence to back them up?

[Anchorman]

I'd agree with Hope on #27, but only add that there is not a shred of evidence that Mary remained a virgin contained in Scripture - and quite a lot of evidence that Jesus was the eldest of a series of siblings.

That's because you read the scriptures incorrectly, that is apart from the Church.

-
Apart from your branch of the Church?
Yes.
Other equally valid branches are available.

Branches? Bollocks! There are no branches. Branch theory equals incoherent ecclesiology or fudge.

"I am the Vine, and you are the branches..."

Er......

[BashfulAnthony]

I'd agree with Hope on #27, but only add that there is not a shred of evidence that Mary remained a virgin contained in Scripture - and quite a lot of evidence that Jesus was the eldest of a series of siblings.

That's because you read the scriptures incorrectly, that is apart from the Church.

-
Apart from your branch of the Church?
Yes.
Other equally valid branches are available.

Branches? Bollocks! There are no branches. Branch theory equals incoherent ecclesiology or fudge.

"I am the Vine, and you are the branches..."

Er......

I'm having problems tasting chocolate at the moment; but a bit of fudge goes down well!   

[Anchorman]

Prayers to Mary? Good grief no! I recall finding the sheet music to Ava Maria when going through the piano bench at my church one Saturday night. The next day before going to church I mentioned it to dad. He kinda frowned and then I told him I had put it in the garbage. "Fine" was his reply. I think dad had a few words with the music director that morning at church because he seemed to avoid me for weeks.

Don't be too quick to dismiss the concept of Mary being able to intercede between us and God to help with our needs.  Mary can definitely see things from a different perspective in Heaven, and help in ways which we do not fully understand, and I have personally found out from my own experiences that the reciting of the rosary can be a very powerful prayer in many different ways.  I am certain that Mary has a vested interest in helping people in this world.

-
#
The problem I have with that, Alan, is that I see nothing in Scripture that justifies it.

[Anchorman]

Alan,
Please provide scripture verses that support the notion of praying to dead people and they acting as a go between us and God. Why would God have the spirits of dead people doing for us? That's one of the jobs of His angels. And we know angels are not to be prayed to nor worshipped.

-
JC:
I'm with you 100%.
However, I have many Christian friends who are RC, and have worshipped with them; just as they have also worshipped in my church.
I don't understand Mariology, and have no interest in the RC concept of 'saint', finding no real scriptural basis for adoration or intercessory prayer.
Like you, I accept that prayer can be addressed to God alone.
However, I recognise the genuine devotion to Mary inculcated in many (though not all ) RC Christians, while having absolutely no part in it mysellf.

[Owlswing]

If the story you 'know' isn't true then it really doesn't matter what speculations you ascribe to the characters that feature in the story.

And what evidence do you have for it not being true?

HHHHHEEEEELLLLPPPP! Hope is morphing into "evidence wanted" Floo

[Gonnagle]

Dear Powwow,

Popery and getting rid of old music sheets, you would not be out of place in sunny Glasgow, well as long as you walked like your shoelaces were tied together.

Hello hello you are a silly boy.

Gonnagle.

[Anchorman]

Dear Powwow,

Popery and getting rid of old music sheets, you would not be out of place in sunny Glasgow, well as long as you walked like your shoelaces were tied together.

Hello hello you are a silly boy.

Gonnagle.

-
He won't understand the (so-called) musical reference, Gonners!

[OH MY WORLD!]

Hey Mr. Gonna,
Thanks for calling me boy. People are always telling me i look about 15yrs younger than I am. Walking like my shoelaces are tied together? No, being a halfbreed, I'm as sure footed as a mountain goat. And quiet too, a good stalker of prey. You think me chucking Ava Maria in the garbage is silly? Iv'e been to Scotlandlandshire grandpa, it was a hoot!!