Mary

[Anchorman]

Who wsas it said give me a child at some young age, I forget the exact quote and I'll have him/her for life?

Wasn't it some one religious?

Probably! Fortunately I escaped!

IIRC, 'twas Aristotle.  “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”  Not quite sure what you escaped from, Floo, in view of the context.

Nowadays that statement is generally attributed to both male and female, and often used in a religious context. I escaped from the shackles of my religious upbringing thank goodness.

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What has your (oft repeated) view got to do with the title of the thread or the O/P?

[Shaker]

It's often attributed to St. Ignatius Loyola, in view of which it is more aptly abbreviated to "Give me a child."

In fact, it's often attributed to a whole host of people, Shaker.  The Jesuits; Francis Xavier; Loyola. Even Hitler and other dictators have used the principles behind the comment.

Yes; that's because they understand that if you inject crap (i.e. religious beliefs) into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable - which is to say, prior to the acquisition of critical and sceptical thinking skills - it's that much more difficult to dislodge.

[ippy]

That's the sort of response that would embarrass six-year-olds at break time.

That's because you're a boring old fart.

Between the astonshing array of arse gravy that you purport to believe in (which seems to change on a fairly regular basis according to which dogmatic and authoritarian, do-your-thinking-for-you brand of Christianity you're claiming as the absolute and final truth this particular month) and anything that ippy has ever written, any rational visitor to this forum will have no difficulty whatever in discerning who's mad, and it ain't ippy.

You exaggerate, having nothing of any substance to say, much like Ippy. Go away!

Do try rational sometimes A O.

ippy

[Hope]

Nowadays that statement is generally attributed to both male and female, and often used in a religious context. I escaped from the shackles of my religious upbringing thank goodness.

I suspect it was applied to both, back in Aristotle's time.  I was asking what you escaped from within the context of Aristotle's coining of the phrase.  I'm not aware that that had any religious context to it.

[Hope]

Yes; that's because they understand that if you inject crap (i.e. religious beliefs) into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable - which is to say, prior to the acquisition of critical and sceptical thinking skills - it's that much more difficult to dislodge.

And unfortunately, modern education can also be accused of 'injecting' stuff into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable.

[floo]

Nowadays that statement is generally attributed to both male and female, and often used in a religious context. I escaped from the shackles of my religious upbringing thank goodness.

I suspect it was applied to both, back in Aristotle's time.  I was asking what you escaped from within the context of Aristotle's coining of the phrase.  I'm not aware that that had any religious context to it.

Well I have heard it used in a religious context quite often!

[Shaker]

Yes; that's because they understand that if you inject crap (i.e. religious beliefs) into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable - which is to say, prior to the acquisition of critical and sceptical thinking skills - it's that much more difficult to dislodge.

And unfortunately, modern education can also be accused of 'injecting' stuff into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable.

Yes - stuff like learning to read and write, being able to do sums, useful (indeed vital) stuff like that.

[Shaker]

Well I have heard it used in a religious context quite often!

I've practically only ever heard it in a religious context, hence the attribution to Loyola.

[Nearly Sane]

Who wsas it said give me a child at some young age, I forget the exact quote and I'll have him/her for life?

Wasn't it some one religious?

Probably! Fortunately I escaped!

IIRC, 'twas Aristotle.  “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”  Not quite sure what you escaped from, Floo, in view of the context.

No, that was Michael Jackson (allegedly)

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yes; that's because they understand that if you inject crap (i.e. religious beliefs) into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable - which is to say, prior to the acquisition of critical and sceptical thinking skills - it's that much more difficult to dislodge.

And unfortunately, modern education can also be accused of 'injecting' stuff into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable.

Yes - stuff like learning to read and write, being able to do sums, useful (indeed vital) stuff like that.

I rather think the problem with English education is what's not in it after that unspeakably appalling libertarian secular humanist Chris Woodhead fucked up education.

[Gonnagle]

Dearest Auntie,

Aye!! But I don't see any if anything replacing this totally bad religious rubbish.

This secular society teaches, dog eat dog, I'am alright Jack, Maths is more important than Mathew 7, it is a scandal!!

Teaching our kids that putting the comma in the proper place is more important than how we treat our fellow man.

Never mind!! We reap what we sow, we can all sit back and bask in the rosy glow that we are fostering the next generation of Tory voters.

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

Yes - stuff like learning to read and write, being able to do sums, useful (indeed vital) stuff like that.

Well, if you regard such things as crap, that's for you to decide.  As a teacher, I don't; in the same way that I don't regard science, religious belief, history, geography, citizenship, cookery, RE, woodwork, sport and all the other school and non-school subjects we have, as 'crap'.

[Owlswing]

That's because you're a boring old fart.

Better a boring old fart than a dribbling mentalist.

You exaggerate

So you deny, then, that the Orthodontic Church or whatever you call it as the final suppository of all divine truth, holy, pure, perfect and immutable, isn't spoken about by you now in the exact same terms in which you spoke of Catholicism - when was it? Earlier this year? Last year? Eighteen months ago?

having nothing of any substance to say, much like Ippy.

Here's a recent post of mine:

The measure of a body's reflectivity is known as its albedo. Earth's albedo varies; liquid water isn't that strongly reflective whereas ice at the poles and white cloud are - in the latter case this is why Venus is so amazingly bright in the sky first and last thing in the day, since it's shrouded in thick white cloud that throws back so much of the sunlight it receives. Moon dust is a light grey, which gives it a reasonably high albedo when it reflects light, as it does in the case of a full moon for instance.

and here's a recent post of yours, posted not only on the same day (yesterday) but within a few hours:

The Ark of the Covenant was holy and contained the tablets of the tablets of stone. Likewise Mary's womb is the Ark of the New Covenant having contained him who the whole world could not contain, the Word made flesh. The Ark of the Covenant was to be kept holy. The same goes with womb of the blessed virgin.

If that's what passes for "substance" in your world you know where you can keep it - somewhere warm, safe and brown.

Go away!

No, I will not. I am entitled to be a member here as much as you are and to post as I see fit so long as I remain within the terms of the house rules as maintained and enforced by the moderation team. That means that I will not be going away, I will not be shutting up, I will not be keeping silent, I will not be ceasing to challenge, criticise, mock, point and stare at, fold, spindle, mutilate and generally piss all over idiotic and irrational balls, bullshit, bollocks and poppycock wherever I find it.

Agreed - in spades! And far more politely than I could have done!

[floo]

Yes - stuff like learning to read and write, being able to do sums, useful (indeed vital) stuff like that.

Well, if you regard such things as crap, that's for you to decide.  As a teacher, I don't; in the same way that I don't regard science, religious belief, history, geography, citizenship, cookery, RE, woodwork, sport and all the other school and non-school subjects we have, as 'crap'.

Shaker didn't say learning to read, write and do sums was crap!

[ippy]

Dearest Auntie,

Aye!! But I don't see any if anything replacing this totally bad religious rubbish.

This secular society teaches, dog eat dog, I'am alright Jack, Maths is more important than Mathew 7, it is a scandal!!

Teaching our kids that putting the comma in the proper place is more important than how we treat our fellow man.

Never mind!! We reap what we sow, we can all sit back and bask in the rosy glow that we are fostering the next generation of Tory voters.

Gonnagle.

You still don't get secularism, why? It's not complicated and it doesn't rule out having a belief in whatever you might wish to have a belief in.

All secularism does is it ensures no one line of thought has a privilaged position over any other, it appears you think secularism is anti religion, why's that Gonners?

ippy

[Rhiannon]

Dearest Auntie,

Aye!! But I don't see any if anything replacing this totally bad religious rubbish.

This secular society teaches, dog eat dog, I'am alright Jack, Maths is more important than Mathew 7, it is a scandal!!

Teaching our kids that putting the comma in the proper place is more important than how we treat our fellow man.

Never mind!! We reap what we sow, we can all sit back and bask in the rosy glow that we are fostering the next generation of Tory voters.

Gonnagle.

Sorry, Gonners, but that's bullshit. Secularism isn't selfish, and nor does our education system foster it. If you want to look to where much of our selfishness comes from consider our media, with its programmes encouraging buy to let as get-rich-quick and current affairs convincing us we all face a future of poverty. It's fear that makes people pull up the ladder.

Or maybe we can look at people like Katie Cutler, the late Stephen Sutton, or these young people.

http://www.peopleshealthtrust.org.uk/news/news-stories/inspirational-young-people-honoured-house-lords-connecting-communities-awards

We have remarkable young people in our society, some religious, like Malala, some not. You do all of them a disservice with your cynicism.

[Owlswing]

Yes - stuff like learning to read and write, being able to do sums, useful (indeed vital) stuff like that.

Well, if you regard such things as crap, that's for you to decide.  As a teacher, I don't; in the same way that I don't regard science, religious belief, history, geography, citizenship, cookery, RE, woodwork, sport and all the other school and non-school subjects we have, as 'crap'.

If your are a teacher I hope (no pun intended) that you read your teaching material far better than you do posts like the one this response is to.

If you don't then God alone knows what bollocks you are teaching your sttudents.

 

[Hope]

Shaker didn't say learning to read, write and do sums was crap!

Floo, read his post again.  He lists them within a context (of his own making) whereby he refers to "injecting" ideas 'into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable'.

[Rhiannon]

Shaker didn't say learning to read, write and do sums was crap!

Floo, read his post again.  He lists them within a context (of his own making) whereby he refers to "injecting" ideas 'into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable'.

That's an impressive twist of what Shaker actually meant, Hope, even by your high standards.

[Hope]

If your are a teacher I hope (no pun intended) that you read your teaching material far better than you do posts like the one this response is to.

Yes, I do tend to read through the context of my teaching material, something you obviously haven't done here.

[Gonnagle]

Dear ippy,

Fair enough, maybe secular is the wrong word, but I know what I am talking about.

The child must be indoctrinated, like the two times table, the Second Greatest Commandment must be drummed into them, never mind the God stuff, they can make their own minds up about that.

Dear Rhiannon,

Oh I know it is not all doom and gloom, but priorities must shift in schools, the real Important stuff must be taught and teaching any child to love thy neighbour is one of the real important lessons, it must become second nature, that is how we will defeat greed and poverty.

Gonnagle.

Gonnagle.

[floo]

Shaker didn't say learning to read, write and do sums was crap!

Floo, read his post again.  He lists them within a context (of his own making) whereby he refers to "injecting" ideas 'into a child while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable'.

Shaker will correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure he meant proselytising!

[Hope]

That's an impressive twist of what Shaker actually meant, Hope, even by your high standards.

Not really; within the context of the enchange between the two of us, he is suggesting that certain stuff that a child is taught 'while it's young enough to be impressionable and its mind malleable' is 'crap'.  I simply pointed out what I regard as not being crap.  I appreciate that one of my items matched his example.

[OH MY WORLD!]

"injecting" children. This is what every Marxist state does. They have children so screwed up they become the government's little spies in the home. Indoctrinated children, willing to report on their own parents political and religious opinions and activities.

[ad_orientem]

No, I will not. I am entitled to be a member here as much as you are and to post as I see fit so long as I remain within the terms of the house rules as maintained and enforced by the moderation team. That means that I will not be going away, I will not be shutting up, I will not be keeping silent, I will not be ceasing to challenge, criticise, mock, point and stare at, fold, spindle, mutilate and generally piss all over idiotic and irrational balls, bullshit, bollocks and poppycock wherever I find it.

The best place to start is your own head then, innit, because it's full of crap.